Favorite Source or Strain of Lacto?

[terrapinj]

Going to be brewing another Berliner Weisse soon and am considering trying a different technique than a sour mash this time. likely add fruit to some/all of the batch and may split some off to do a 100% brett b trois batch

Does making a starter with raw grains produce a similar effect as the sour mash in that there could be other bugs etc that breed aside from Lacto that can lead to some of the off flavors?

I've seen a reference to someone using lacto from acidophilus pills and know there are a few strains of commerical lacto avail from wyeast/white labs but have read can may lack an assertive tartness .

Just curious what some of your preferences are

 

[Calder]

The only way I have made BW is by using probiotic tablets. I just haven't managed to bring myself to use grain. The BWs I have made have been excellent.

The tablets I have used supposedly contain 1 billion live cells per tablet of Lactobacillus Acidopholis . I use 2 tablets per gallon.

I sour the wort for 5 days at 100F before adding the yeast. I taste the wort to ensure it is soured before adding the yeast.

If you use this method, do not use any hops. If you use any hops at all, it will not work. If you want hops, add them after the wort is soured.

 

[joshrosborne]

The only way I have made BW is by using probiotic tablets. I just haven't managed to bring myself to use grain. The BWs I have made have been excellent.

The tablets I have used supposedly contain 1 billion live cells per tablet of Lactobacillus Acidopholis . I use 2 tablets per gallon.

I sour the wort for 5 days at 100F before adding the yeast. I taste the wort to ensure it is soured before adding the yeast.

If you use this method, do not use any hops. If you use any hops at all, it will not work. If you want hops, add them after the wort is soured.

Do you just crush the tablets and add them to the wort or do you need to boil them for them to dissolve?

 

[McCoy]

I made a quite clean, delicious Berliner Weisse using lacto cultured from grain. I think using that method there are definitely other bugs that could produce off-flavors, but I think it's easier to limit oxygen and safeguard against off-flavors using a starter rather than a sour mash. With a sour mash, butyric acid or other nasty stuff is suffused throughout the entire wort whereas if you make a bad smelling/tasting starter, just dump it and try again.

I soured 2.5 gallons of wort for about 5 days at 100 degrees, and then heat pasteurized at 170 degrees for 10 or 15 minutes. I then combined it with another 2.5 gallons of unfermented wort and pitched a large slurry of US-05.

That said, I am really curious to try the probiotic pills. It seems like it would be less work than culturing from grain and perhaps more reliable. I would crush them up before dissolving just to help things along. From what I've read about the commercial lacto strains, I really have very little interest in using them. However, I am curious to hear about some of the Berliner blends that have been cropping up from WL, Wyeast, ECY, etc.

 

[BryanThompson]

Boiling the probiotic will kill the lacto.

Calder, what brand are you using?

 

[joshrosborne]

Boiling the probiotic will kill the lacto.

Calder, what brand are you using?

Whoops, duh. Didn't even think of that. I picked up a bottle of Sundown Naturals acidophilus today. It supposedly has 2 billion active cultures per tablet. It wasn't the cheapest one at CVS, but it was one of the few with ONLY acidophilus in the tablets.

 

[terrapinj]

Has anyone had any good experiences with the commercially available strains (wyeast or white labs), particularly without aging for more than a couple months?

 

[BryanThompson]

I used white labs lacto that I made an 1 day starter on. It went into a 1.111og imperial flanders red for four days wrapped in a blanket sitting on a vent in my house in the winter time. After the four days I added roeselare. It is quite sour for being so young and having such a high OG.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I've used the pills; I got only a mild sourness from them, although I think they were near the expiration date. I usually just toss a small handful of two row into the wort once the temp is around 100. The Berliner I did this way was extremely sour.

 

[Calder]

Do you just crush the tablets and add them to the wort or do you need to boil them for them to dissolve?

Just crush the tablets and add to wort. Cap with an airlock. You will not see any activity.

Calder, what brand are you using?

I just got some cheap ones from Walmart. They only had acidophilis.

Made a new batch this last week. At 5 days it was mildly sour. I left it for 7 days before adding the yeast.

 

[terrapinj]

Tried to get a lacto starter going last week with apple juice (no preservatives)and a handful of special roast (only uncrsuhed grain on hand) and a small pinch each of yeastex and fermax but have seen no activity and there is not the slightest taste of anything other than apple juice and grain.

Going to add some acidophilus tabs tonight but was really hoping to culture something from the grain

 

[terrapinj]

Tried to get a lacto starter going last week with apple juice (no preservatives)and a handful of special roast (only uncrsuhed grain on hand) and a small pinch each of yeastex and fermax but have seen no activity and there is not the slightest taste of anything other than apple juice and grain.

Going to add some acidophilus tabs tonight but was really hoping to culture something from the grain

couldn't find any acidophilus without other ingredients I was unsure about - most had milk or whey or other similar additions which I think would be ok in a starter if decanted but IDK

added some crushed 2 row to the apple juice and hope to get something going from that

next time I get a bottle from Cascade I'll try to harvest some lacto from the dregs