Fastest all-grain brew day times

[max384]

As the title says, how fast can you do an all grain brew day? And what tricks and tips doyou have for speeding up a brew day?



Last night, I was pressed for time and took a few shortcuts, and was able to bring the total brew day (from weighing out unmilled grains to pitching yeast in the primary fermenter) to 3 hrs 13 min. I was really happy with this time, and ended up with 86% brewhouse efficiency, which is better than my average of around 80%.

I milled my grains as I usually do (drill powered corona mill), then I only mashed for 45 minutes, instead of my usual hour. Rather than my usual fly sparge, I batch sparged, using a two step batch spargethat took about 15 minutes. I also used two kettles, and two burners. One to heat sparging water, and one to heat the collected wort. This way, by the time the sparge was done, it was only about five minutes until the wort was boiling. I then cooled using an immersion cooler outside in 15 F ambient temps. Rather than siphoning off the wort from the sediment, I just dumped it straight into the fermenter, then pitched my yeast.

This was a low grain-bill blonde ale, so that aided in being able to mash and sparge quickly and still maintain good efficiency. Other than switching to a countercurrent chiller, I don't believe I can cut my time down much further.

And in case anyone asks, I don't normally rush a brew day, but a quick brew is better than not being able to at all.

So anyone else have any quick brew day times, and tips on how they did it?


EDIT:

After reading some of the comments, I want to add that my time is for a 5 gallon batch (6 gallons post-boil, so that I'll have at least five after primary and secondary fermentation), and that this includes ALL cleaning as well.

 

[Upthewazzu]

I'm about the same, roughly 3 hours. I also use the same process as you, except with 1 burner and I mill the grains the night before. Also of note, depending on how much homebrew I drink on brewday, my brew times can vary wildly.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Usually 4 hours if I leave some cleaning for later in the night, single burner, I do have two kettles though and I do a sort of weird fly sparge BIAB sort of process since it gives me better attenuation and I dont have the room for true no sparge BIAB.

Best practice is, during mash, clean whatever you know you won't need the rest of the day. You can do the same during boils if you dont have a long complicated hop bill and you are confident it won't boil over while you are away, I know you arent supposed to leave an open flame unattended blah blah blah, I'll take the risk because I've noticed every boil over puts the flames out and my burner has an auto off function for the gas when the flame goes out.

When its a warm day out though, nothing beats setting up a lawn chair, set a glass of home brew or a double of a good islay scotch with a tiny splash of water, pulling out a book, and reading for an hour during the boil, or deliberately doing a style that needs a 2 hour boil and just falling asleep in the sun.

 

[RM-MN]

I've been trying some things that speed up my brew day. I went to BIAB and set my Corona mill as tight as I can get it. Now my mash takes 20 minutes or less with efficiency over 85% (brewhouse). I usually boil for 60 minutes but a 30 minute boil works fine with no chill but I have to figure the bittering and flavor additions as the wort will stay pretty hot for some time. With all that, my brew time where I need to be attentive is down to just over 2 hours. Then the pot full of wort goes outside to cool and I'm free to do other things for the next 3 to 4 hours until the wort is at pitching temperature. In summer I might have to wait overnight before I could pitch the yeast.

 

[rekoob]

Nice. I have not been into the three hour mark, four is about where I'm at. I batch sparge like you did and that helps a lot. I also use a three keggle system so liquid temp changes happen pretty fast and I am getting to temp on one while the other is draining or transferring.
I haven't tried a short mash but with all the talk of them I might have to trim that down to save some time.
Sounds like you have a new process to work on.

 

[JonM]

Try me again on Saturday. I'm planning a brew Saturday morning where I'll be batch sparging and using a plate chiller for the first time in an AG batch. Those two steps should shave a bunch of time off from the old fly sparge and immersion chiller route. Hopefully.

 

[mdbrewer1]

I've been trying some things that speed up my brew day. I went to BIAB and set my Corona mill as tight as I can get it. Now my mash takes 20 minutes or less with efficiency over 85% (brewhouse). I usually boil for 60 minutes but a 30 minute boil works fine with no chill but I have to figure the bittering and flavor additions as the wort will stay pretty hot for some time. With all that, my brew time where I need to be attentive is down to just over 2 hours. Then the pot full of wort goes outside to cool and I'm free to do other things for the next 3 to 4 hours until the wort is at pitching temperature. In summer I might have to wait overnight before I could pitch the yeast.

Wow. Is that for a full volume 5 gallon batch with a 60 minute boil or are you assuming 30 minutes in that 2 hour timeline?? Does that count the time you spent after (no)chilling? Any aerating, rehydrating/pitching, cleaning?

 

[kh54s10]

I do the 60 minute mash and can brew in about 3 1/2 hours. Set up everything and clean etc while the water is warming, during the mash and during the boil. It usually takes longer though.

If I am pressed for time... I do not brew.....

Or... Extract - no mash time.....

 

[Psylocide]

Taking a tip from another poster in this thread, I recently did a AG brew day in about 2.5 hrs.

Time saving measures:

1. Crush grain day before

2. 30 min mash (got 76% efficiency with good crush, could have crushed finer).

3. No chill brewing - let sit outside until fairly cool, transfer to carboy, let sit until pitching temp is reached

4. Don't clean any of your stuff same-day. I clean it throughout the week after the brew day. Everything gets an Oxi soak and sits until I decide to clean it out.

I'd call myself a heretic if it wasn't working so well.

Also, I have done an overnight mash, which cut the brew day up into to chunks. Mash the night before, insulate kettle, come back in the morning, sparge and start the boil.

 

[azazel1024]

I always do a two stage batch sparge, BiaB. I'd say my typical time (I mill my grains at the LHBS) from when I start breaking out my kettles and other stuff to the time I am done with clean-up (because pitching yeast doesn't count in my household. Not if I want to stay married) is generally around 3hrs for my FASTEST ever batches, which are also generally in the 2.5G range. For a 4-5G batch, probably 3.5hrs (extra time to heat the mash water and to boil and stuff).

My more typical time is closer to 4hrs because I tend to "take things slow".

For example, if I am rushing I do a 50 minute mash generally and only bring up the water temp slightly before I pull my bag of grains and dunk it in my second kettle for a 10-15 minute steeping at my mashing temp and then I'll raise to a mash out temp of only around 160F or so before I pull the bag, combine the pots and squeeze as much wort out of the grain as possible before bring up to a boil at max burner output, turn it down to a low boil, dump hops, etc.

A more typical session I'll let it run for an hour before I even bother to start bringing my 2nd kettle up to temp, in that case generally around 170F and then put my primary kettle back on the burner to get a "proper" mash out temp of 165-170F and transfer the bag to my 2nd pot then for a 15 minute steeping. Adds about 20-30 minutes of extra time, but I seem to get a few points higher efficiency when I do it that way (high 70's instead of mid/low 70's).

Sometimes I am crunched for time though.

Same on the other end with pitching my wort in to my carboy and clean-up. I normally pitch through a funnel about 1/2-3/4ths of my volume and then stick my funnel sieve in to it to strain the last bit of the batch to get the larger hunks of grain and hop out of the trub. It adds EASILY 10 minutes to the process as I have to whisk the sieve as it gets clogged quickly.

Also clean-up can be super thorough and methodical taking maybe 5 extra minutes, or I can try to clean-up as I go and stash it all away.

I also sometimes cut corners on chilling the wort, pitching my yeast more like 80F and then letting it free fall or come down in my fermentation chamber to the proper fermentation temps. Other times I spend the extra 3-8 minutes with my wort chiller to get it within 5-8F (ale/lager) of my fermentation temps.

I typically choose really inappropriate times to brew a lot of the year. Like I'll get an itch to brew knowing that I won't have "real time" to brew for a couple of weeks and knowing I want a certain batch to be carbed and conditioned by some event. So I'll stupidly start mashing in right before dinner knowing I'll be ready to transfer to my 2nd kettle as soon as I've tucked my kids and bed and can rush through the rest of brewing and be cleaned up by 11pm to go to bed (I am guilty of having done this at least 5 or 6 times now. Only once did it result in me actually sleeping on the couch).

I generally prefer a nice easy day without a lot going on so I can take it slow and easy and enjoy a beer and a good book while I brew.

That ends up probably being 1 in 3 brew days for me.

 

[Tinpanharry]

Taking a tip from another poster in this thread, I recently did a AG brew day in about 2.5 hrs.

Time saving measures:

1. Crush grain day before

2. 30 min mash (got 76% efficiency with good crush, could have crushed finer).

3. No chill brewing - let sit outside until fairly cool, transfer to carboy, let sit until pitching temp is reached

4. Don't clean any of your stuff same-day. I clean it throughout the week after the brew day. Everything gets an Oxi soak and sits until I decide to clean it out.

I'd call myself a heretic if it wasn't working so well.

Also, I have done an overnight mash, which cut the brew day up into to chunks. Mash the night before, insulate kettle, come back in the morning, sparge and start the boil.

What is the effect of an overnight mash? Also is there any risk? I will move this to another thread if this one starts to get hijacked.

 

[Psylocide]

What is the effect of an overnight mash? Also is there any risk?

People have told me there is a risk of souring the wort, but my temps only dropped ~20° overnight. Never did go below 130°. And, since everything ends up getting boiled, I really wasn't worried.

I suppose the only effect it had was that I was able to mash the night before and boil the next morning.

I've got a thread on it if you feel like reading through it... turned out great though.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/hoppy-wheat-overnight-mash-biab-515150/

 

[EthanH]

And in case anyone asks, I don't normally rush a brew day, but a quick brew is better than not being able to at all.

Nice try with the disclaimer, but you're still going to get the "why on earth would you ever rush a brew day/it's supposed to be relaxing/blah blah blah" comments.

The main time difference for me on brew days is generally related to how focused I am. The more focused I am, the more I get done (cleaning, measuring, etc) while another part of the process is happening (mash, boil, etc) and the less of a gap there is between steps. I've tried shortening mash and boil (I almost always do a 90 min boil), but I've found in my case and for whatever reason, it negatively impacts the result.

EDITED to add: Lately I've been letting my wort chill overnight and I pitch the next day. This probably cuts a total of 1 hour from my brew day. I will probably go back to the immersion chiller once the weather gets warmer, though.

 

[max384]

Thanks for all of the comments. For some reason, I had not thought about milling the grains the night before. I get the strike water warming up while I'm weighing and milling the grains, so there is some overlap, but I find that the strike water is usually warmed up before I'm done milling my grains, so that's probably 5-10 minutes I could shave off there too.

Usually 4 hours if I leave some cleaning for later in the night, single burner, I do have two kettles though and I do a sort of weird fly sparge BIAB sort of process since it gives me better attenuation and I dont have the room for true no sparge BIAB.

Best practice is, during mash, clean whatever you know you won't need the rest of the day. You can do the same during boils if you dont have a long complicated hop bill and you are confident it won't boil over while you are away, I know you arent supposed to leave an open flame unattended blah blah blah, I'll take the risk because I've noticed every boil over puts the flames out and my burner has an auto off function for the gas when the flame goes out.

When its a warm day out though, nothing beats setting up a lawn chair, set a glass of home brew or a double of a good islay scotch with a tiny splash of water, pulling out a book, and reading for an hour during the boil, or deliberately doing a style that needs a 2 hour boil and just falling asleep in the sun.

I generally leave my boil unattended, only checking on it once in awhile, at least this time of year when it's so cold outside. I use a 15 gallon kettle for five gallon brews, so unless I'm doing a big 120 minute boil IPA with higher volumes, boilovers aren't something that concern me. I boil outside on cement, where there isn't a risk of fire though. If I brewed in a garage or closer to something flammable, I wouldn't be leaving it unattended.

And, like you, when the weather is warm (not too hot though!), I'm set up outside relaxing next to the kettle the whole time!

What is the effect of an overnight mash? Also is there any risk? I will move this to another thread if this one starts to get hijacked.

One problem you may have with styles such as stouts that you want to have a thick mouthfeel are too low of mash temperatures with an overnight mash. You want higher mash temps so that you have more alpha amylase activity and less beta amylase activity. If the temps drop too low, you will have too much beta amylase activity, which will result in greater attenuation and a thinner body. In my mash tun, I lose about a degree an hour. If I were doing a beer with a thicker mouthfeel, I wouldn't do an overnight mash.

 

[max384]

Nice try with the disclaimer, but you're still going to get the "why on earth would you ever rush a brew day/it's supposed to be relaxing/blah blah blah" comments.

The main time difference for me on brew days is generally related to how focused I am. The more focused I am, the more I get done (cleaning, measuring, etc) while another part of the process is happening (mash, boil, etc) and the less of a gap there is between steps. I've tried shortening mash and boil (I almost always do a 90 min boil), but I've found in my case and for whatever reason, it negatively impacts the result.

EDITED to add: Lately I've been letting my wort chill overnight and I pitch the next day. This probably cuts a total of 1 hour from my brew day. I will probably go back to the immersion chiller once the weather gets warmer, though.

I know! I'm surprised they haven't come up yet. Maybe my disclaimer did work!!!

 

[RM-MN]

Wow. Is that for a full volume 5 gallon batch with a 60 minute boil or are you assuming 30 minutes in that 2 hour timeline?? Does that count the time you spent after (no)chilling? Any aerating, rehydrating/pitching, cleaning?

I'm doing a 2 1/2 gallon batch but on my kitchen stove. It would take more time to heat 5 gallons on my stove but then I might move to a higher output propane burner outdoors and gain that time back. I only boiled for 45 minutes on the batch I timed because with no chill the hop bittering continues until the wort chills. I've tried a couple of 30 minute boils but those are still in the fermenter and I may have DMS that I haven't detected yet. No chill with dry yeast takes whatever time to chill, getting the yeast rehydrated, then dumping the wort into the fermenter and pitching yeast. The time that you need to attend that is pretty minimal, perhaps 2 or 3 minutes spread over half an hour so most of that time is free to do other things. When you use dry yeast, aerating is optional. The dry yeast come packed with what they need to make new cells so you don't have to aerate.

Cleaning equipment happens during the boil except for the boil pot that has to be cleaned when the wort is in the fermenter, another minute or 2 if done immediately.

 

[Psylocide]

[snip]

One problem you may have with styles such as stouts that you want to have a thick mouthfeel are too low of mash temperatures with an overnight mash. You want higher mash temps so that you have more alpha amylase activity and less beta amylase activity. If the temps drop too low, you will have too much beta amylase activity, which will result in greater attenuation and a thinner body. In my mash tun, I lose about a degree an hour. If I were doing a beer with a thicker mouthfeel, I wouldn't do an overnight mash.

I'm curious about this part... if your mash stays at say, 158° for an hour, but then continues to fall over time, what role does that play in the wort?

My overnight mash finished at 1.009 from 1.060 mashed at 152°... which is pretty darn dry (it's a pale, I'm not complaining).

I guess, the question I have is, what changes are taking place after that first hour? Are starches still being broken down for that entire period time that the grain is in the liquid (one would assume so...)?

Or is there a time-frame/temp where everything just stops?

 

[max384]

I'm curious about this part... if your mash stays at say, 158° for an hour, but then continues to fall over time, what role does that play in the wort?

My overnight mash finished at 1.009 from 1.060 mashed at 152°... which is pretty darn dry (it's a pale, I'm not complaining).

I guess, the question I have is, what changes are taking place after that first hour? Are starches still being broken down for that entire period time that the grain is in the liquid (one would assume so...)?

Or is there a time-frame/temp where everything just stops?

There are two main enzymes that break down the carbohydrates into simpler sugars during the mash, alpha amylase and beta amylase.

Alpha amylase breaks down the carbohydrates in the grain into longer sugar chains that aren't completely fermented by yeast. These longer sugar chains that aren't completely fermented create a fuller mouthfeel, thus more body. The alpha amylase enzyme is most active at 154+ F.

Beta amylase breaks down the carbohydrates in the grain into single sugars that are readily fermented. These single sugars that are more completely fermented lead to higher attenuation and a lighter mouthfeel, thus less body. The beta amylase enzyme is most active below 150 F.

152 F is often chosen as a mash temperature because at this temp you get a good mix of alpha and beta amylase activity, and there isn't really a predominance of one over the other. Also, beta amylase cleaves sugars from the ends of the sugar strands only. Alpha amylase cleaves from anywhere along the strands of sugars. So, beta amylase works best when alpha amylase "helps it out" by creating a greater number of shorter chains, thus giving it more "end sugars" to cleave into single sugars.

Now, to more directly answer your question. If you mash at a high temp, lets say 158, as in your example, there is still some overlap of beta amylase activity. If you kept it at 158 F indefinitely, there would be a small amount of beta amylase activity that would continue cleaving sugars from the longer chains left behind from alpha amylase. However, this would occur very slowly because the enzymatic activity of beta amylase is pretty low at this high temp. Now, if you let the temperature continue to drop lower and lower, the beta amylase activity will continue to increase, and the beta amylase will cleave single sugars from the longer chains left from alpha amylase at a faster and faster rate, as the temps drop into alpha's "preferred" temperature range. The only time that this enzymatic activity will stop is once it gets too hot (over 170 F, which is why we sparge with this temp) or too cold (under 130 F or so).

To sum it up, beta amylase can cleave single sugars from the longer sugar chains left over from alpha amylase. So, if the temp is allowed to drop too low, or it is left to mash too long (or even worse, both), the alpha amylase will "chew up" the thicker body into a thinner body.

As a disclaimer, I've fairly recently read a debate on how much a particular amylase activity affects the body of a beer. Some say it is very minimal, and other factors, such as choice of grain, play a much more important role. Last I saw, there was no clear decision on whether this idea that mash temp was unimportant held any merit or not.

 

[Psylocide]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Definitely need to read up more on the mashing process and what is actually taking place.

 

[VladOfTrub]

"One problem you may have with styles such as stouts that you want to have a thick mouthfeel are too low of mash temperatures with an overnight mash. You want higher mash temps so that you have more alpha amylase activity and less beta amylase activity. If the temps drop too low, you will have too much beta amylase activity, which will result in greater attenuation and a thinner body."

Not really. Body and mouthfeel come from limit dextrin. High mashing temps in the alpha range produces non-fermentable sugar, which is not the same as limit dextrin. Learning about the relationship which amylose and amylopectin have with amylase, isn't a bad idea.
If you are trying to gain body and mouthfeel, add dextrin malt.

Overnight mashing does nothing, after enzymes denature. The process is confused with pre-mashing. Mash would be soaked overnight, but at a temperature at which enzymes are inactive. The primary purpose of the rest is to allow nature to gradually reduce mash pH. The temperature would be in the lacto range. The method was used before pH strips and meters were invented. That was the original acid rest. The method was a part of the decoction method. Now, sour malt or acid are used to adjust pH.
Overnight mashing will soften the husk and de-aerate it. The rest causes the hard, heat resistive starch, which is stuck at each end of the husk, to seperate from the husk. This helps when malt is coarsely ground.

IMO, the bad side of overnight mashing at saccarification temperature, has to do with amylopectin, forming. Here's what happens. The starch that looks like tiny, white BB's in the mash are heat resistive, to a point. At 149F, the starch begins to burst and amylopectin is produced, which is OK, as long as one of the enzymes are still active, the enzyme will reduce amylopectin. When the enzymes reduces the starch chain and branches to what nature allows, what is left is limit dextrin. Alpha produces A-limit dextrin and beta produces B-limit dextrin.
After the enzymes denature, amylopectin continues to form, until the mash temp drops below 149F. The enzymes get wiped out, due to time and temperature. The amylopectin which formed, ends up in the bottle, unconverted.

 

[max384]

"One problem you may have with styles such as stouts that you want to have a thick mouthfeel are too low of mash temperatures with an overnight mash. You want higher mash temps so that you have more alpha amylase activity and less beta amylase activity. If the temps drop too low, you will have too much beta amylase activity, which will result in greater attenuation and a thinner body."

Not really. Body and mouthfeel come from limit dextrin. High mashing temps in the alpha range produces non-fermentable sugar, which is not the same as limit dextrin. Learning about the relationship which amylose and amylopectin have with amylase, isn't a bad idea.
If you are trying to gain body and mouthfeel, add dextrin malt.

Limit dextrins are what is left over from amylase activity, both alpha and beta amylase. Limit dextrins ARE the non-fermentable sugars left over. Adding dextrin malt is not the only way to gain body and add mouthfeel. That is a very simplistic way of looking at it. Though, this being said, I always use Carapils in my stouts! lol

Overnight mashing does nothing, after enzymes denature. The process is confused with pre-mashing. Mash would be soaked overnight, but at a temperature at which enzymes are inactive. The primary purpose of the rest is to allow nature to gradually reduce mash pH. The temperature would be in the lacto range. The method was used before pH strips and meters were invented. That was the original acid rest. The method was a part of the decoction method. Now, sour malt or acid are used to adjust pH.
Overnight mashing will soften the husk and de-aerate it. The rest causes the hard, heat resistive starch, which is stuck at each end of the husk, to seperate from the husk. This helps when malt is coarsely ground.

IMO, the bad side of overnight mashing at saccarification temperature, has to do with amylopectin, forming. Here's what happens. The starch that looks like tiny, white BB's in the mash are heat resistive, to a point. At 149F, the starch begins to burst and amylopectin is produced, which is OK, as long as one of the enzymes are still active, the enzyme will reduce amylopectin. When the enzymes reduces the starch chain and branches to what nature allows, what is left is limit dextrin. Alpha produces A-limit dextrin and beta produces B-limit dextrin.
After the enzymes denature, amylopectin continues to form, until the mash temp drops below 149F. The enzymes get wiped out, due to time and temperature. The amylopectin which formed, ends up in the bottle, unconverted.

Although most of the beta amylase will denature at temperatures above 149 F, you can't expect all of the beta amylase to be denatured until about 160 F. And alpha amylase denaturation begins to occur in the at about 156 F, but you can't count on all of the alpha amylase to be denatured until about 170-175 F. Thus, you will still have some amylase enzymatic activity, including breaking down amylopectin. And alpha amylase (which is very heat resistant in the 150s) is the most important enzyme for breaking down amylopectin.

I will admit, though, that I do not know how much beta amylase activity would be left in a 150s mash. Maybe I am erring in postulating just how much beta amylase activity would be left in an overnight mash.

 

[mdbrewer1]

I'm doing a 2 1/2 gallon batch but on my kitchen stove. It would take more time to heat 5 gallons on my stove but then I might move to a higher output propane burner outdoors and gain that time back. I only boiled for 45 minutes on the batch I timed because with no chill the hop bittering continues until the wort chills. I've tried a couple of 30 minute boils but those are still in the fermenter and I may have DMS that I haven't detected yet. No chill with dry yeast takes whatever time to chill, getting the yeast rehydrated, then dumping the wort into the fermenter and pitching yeast. The time that you need to attend that is pretty minimal, perhaps 2 or 3 minutes spread over half an hour so most of that time is free to do other things. When you use dry yeast, aerating is optional. The dry yeast come packed with what they need to make new cells so you don't have to aerate.

Cleaning equipment happens during the boil except for the boil pot that has to be cleaned when the wort is in the fermenter, another minute or 2 if done immediately.

Oh. Well that distinction would probably be helpful. I think most people work off the assumption of a 5 gallon batch. A 5 gallon batch in just over 2 hours would be quite the feat.

 

[aangel]

All-grain in 2 hours is pretty much impossible. If the challenge were "all grain, done well, in 2 hours of active brewer involvement" that might be doable...

15min - equipment & ingredients setup (strike temp reached in automated fashion)
5min - mash-in, leave for 30-60 min (insulted, or HERMS with temp control)
1 min - set mash-out temp (& wait for it to be reached)
10min - set up either fly sparge w/float switch, or no-sparge, or single batch sparge.
15 min - once majority of planned runnings are collected, start testing gravity & fine tuning the collecting of the runnings
20 min - start the boil / add the hops & whirlfloc during boil
10 min - clean out the mash tun during boil
5 min - set up the chiller at end of boil (just let it run unattended)
5 min - transfer to ferm vessel, place in temp controlled area, wait a few hours
20 min - disassemble relevant parts, add water & pbw to pot, dump parts in pot, heat it up (or use CIP cycle, or just let everything soak overnight)

5 min - pitch the yeast, attach the airlock, etc.
15 min - scrub parts that were soaking in pbw; rinse it out, add starsan, let drain.

That's...126 minutes? It's a good goal to aim for. I wonder if I can possibly be that efficient ever

 

[RM-MN]

Oh. Well that distinction would probably be helpful. I think most people work off the assumption of a 5 gallon batch. A 5 gallon batch in just over 2 hours would be quite the feat.

The major difference between the batch sizes is the time it take to heat the water and wort. Dough in only takes me about 30 seconds. Double that batch size and it takes twice as long, about 1 minute. If you are going to do a batch fast you have to be very well organized and work fast.

 

[azazel1024]

One of the things that recently occured to me (why it has taken nearly 2 years, darned if I know) is to use hot tap water instead of cold tap water to fill my pots before heating.

I guess stupidly I was thinking "but hot water costs me more than cold water!"

Oh right, my hot water heater is ~94% efficient...my stove most certainly is NOT 94% efficient (I'd bet closer to 40-50% when you consider how much is dumped to the air or the pot radiates/convects in the process of heating the water). My propane burner is decidedly much less than 40-50% efficient AND the propane is more expensive than electric.

DOH!

So, save a few pennies by using hot water from the tap instead of cold water AND if I am doing an "on the stove" batch it cuts my heat to mash temp time down from around 15 minutes or so when I am doing a 4 gallon batch to probably 8 minutes.

With my propane burner it takes it from around 8 minutes down to about 3-4 minutes.

Especially in the winter time (tap temp in the summer is around 70F if it is coming from my pressure tank and been sitting there awhile, 65F if the winter. If straight from my well then it is roughly 64F in summer and 58F in winter. It is a shallow well + well pipes only run ~30 inches below the ground. Hot water temp from my kitchen sink is roughly 119F).

Lesson learned. Saves time AND money by using hot tap water to fill my pots.

 

[Clonefan94]

I've never really tried to push it, so it's hard for me to give a concrete answer. I'd imagine, with my set up and storage limitations, from first equipment out, to last equipment back, I could get to around 5 hours. I have in the past, prepared everything the night before though, had everything set up and ready to go, even as much as having all of my water sitting waiting to be heated. In those cases, I have finished things in under 4 hours. But, that's not really fair to say, because I spent a lot of time the night before preparing everything.

for me, the key is that I only brew when I have the time. I really do enjoy the process and treat it more as a relaxation time, than a "Have to get this done" type of thing. One of my favorite things is to sip on a beer, or coffee if it's early, light a pipe or cigar and listen to a good podcast while waiting on the mash. So, unfortunately for this discussion, I've never really focused on speed.

 

[mdbrewer1]

The major difference between the batch sizes is the time it take to heat the water and wort. Dough in only takes me about 30 seconds. Double that batch size and it takes twice as long, about 1 minute. If you are going to do a batch fast you have to be very well organized and work fast.

Exactly. That's why the distinction is important since you are doing a different batch size than what I think what most consider standard. Stating a 2 hour time without noting the lower than likely assumed volume isn't giving a complete picture and might be misleading.

A 1 gallon batch around 2 hours sounds reasonable given the shortened mash and boil times.
A 2.5 gallon batch in that time sounds fast.
A 5 gallon batch would likely need some sort of additional help to get there, like an electric heating element.
I doubt you can get there at all with a 10 gallon batch.

It's not really a big deal. I know you're a big proponent of your method and you have good reason to share your experience, but I think the way you present it is misleading at times.

 

[Brettomomyces]

After the enzymes denature, amylopectin continues to form, until the mash temp drops below 149F. The enzymes get wiped out, due to time and temperature. The amylopectin which formed, ends up in the bottle, unconverted.

What are the affects of having higher levels of unconverted amylopectin?

 

[RM-MN]

Exactly. That's why the distinction is important since you are doing a different batch size than what I think what most consider standard. Stating a 2 hour time without noting the lower than likely assumed volume isn't giving a complete picture and might be misleading.

A 1 gallon batch around 2 hours sounds reasonable given the shortened mash and boil times.
A 2.5 gallon batch in that time sounds fast.
A 5 gallon batch would likely need some sort of additional help to get there, like an electric heating element.
I doubt you can get there at all with a 10 gallon batch.

It's not really a big deal. I know you're a big proponent of your method and you have good reason to share your experience, but I think the way you present it is misleading at times.

The time it takes only really depends on the heat source and whether I hand grind the grains or use a motor attachment. If I told you that Anheuser Busch could heat up their strike water in an hour, would that be unbelievable? It all depends on how big and powerful their heat source is. When I do a smaller batch I use a smaller heat source.

 

[mdbrewer1]

The time it takes only really depends on the heat source and whether I hand grind the grains or use a motor attachment. If I told you that Anheuser Busch could heat up their strike water in an hour, would that be unbelievable? It all depends on how big and powerful their heat source is. When I do a smaller batch I use a smaller heat source.

So you can do a 5 gallon batch in the same amount of time as a 2.5 gallon batch?

 

[kombat]

When you use dry yeast, aerating is optional. The dry yeast come packed with what they need to make new cells so you don't have to aerate.

Not in my experience. I know the Danstar FAQ says this, but the one time I tried it, the batch had an overwhelming flavour of banana. I had to dump it.

 

[Zepth]

I think I set my record with my most recent batch of Centennial Blonde. Started heating the strike water and milling grains at 11 AM, looked at the clock after pitching and it was 4 PM. "I think that day went quite well, and quickly." Then I realized that I did an unusual 90 minute mash. I think it was inspired by slightly less attenuation than expected last time around. Quicker than usual indeed.

Method:
-Measure strike water, heat
-Measure and grind grain (concurrent)
-Drain Tun
-Turn on kettle
-Hot tap water sparge (concurrent)
-Get my boil on!
-IC cool
-Starsan fermenter and transfer tubing (concurrent)
-Hydrometer reading
-Transfer to fermenter
-Pitch

As far as I can tell I could have saved time few places. Let's go with another list.
- Stick with a shorter mash
- Heat up sparge water in kettle (reduce time to reach boil)
- No chill / Only chill out of DMS zone
- Don't make 10 gallon batches

As far as I see it the "measure ingredients and water the day before" is a cop out. Sorry to say it, it doesn't save much time. What it will do is allow you to "sessonize" your brewing so that it isn't as daunting to accomplish in one shift.

 

[kombat]

As far as I see it the "measure ingredients and water the day before" is a cop out. Sorry to say it, it doesn't save much time.

Haha, that's definitely true. In fact, if anything, I'd say it actually increases the total amount of time devoted to the brew.

What it does allow me to do is do some "brewing related tasks" on evenings when I don't have time to do a full brew. I get home from work on, say, Thursday night. I make supper and clean the dishes, and it's 7:00 pm. Too late to start brewing, but more than enough time to putter around in the brewery/basement measuring out, vacuum-sealing, and labeling my hops, as well as weigh out the grains and seal them in an empty bucket (with GammaSeal lid).

It lets me feel like I did something for brewing (rather than, say, wasting the evening watching drivel on TV), and come Saturday, I can get started with a little less running around and coordinating.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I love the pre-setup the night before. I've been brewing pretty early recently, and it allows me to get up and start the whole process and get to mashing while I'm still waiting for coffee to sink in.

 

[max384]

As far as I see it the "measure ingredients and water the day before" is a cop out. Sorry to say it, it doesn't save much time. What it will do is allow you to "sessonize" your brewing so that it isn't as daunting to accomplish in one shift.

Depending upon what water source you use, measuring out water the night before can add time onto the brew day itself too. I use tap water for my brewing, and I always add hot water to the brew kettle to speed things up. If I measured and let it sit overnight, that would definitely add time to heat it up.

 

[Zepth]

So I decided to try and get a quick batch in today. Had the chance last night to mash in. This worked out to a 10 hour mash, I did expect it. Today went as follows:
11AM: Start draining tun
11:20: Stuck sparge. Of all the days, it's the one where I'm on limited time.
11:40: Batch sparging almost done, heating
12:20: Boil achieved nice and lightly no boil over
13:20: Boil done, start chilling and washing tun with runoff water
13:40: Oh crap, I'm out of airlocks
13:50: Keg a batch to free up airlock for blow off
14:15: Chilling over achieved. Transfer to fermenters and pitch
14:30: Deal with leaky poppet on kegged batch. Damn it. I'm in a hurry!
14:45: Done.
1530: Realize I could have swapped the airlocks and put the S onto finished batch.

So it did greatly reduce my time spent today, but at the expense of time yesterday. I think in the end it's about a wash for any time savings. If not for a couple of hiccups it went rather smoothly and pain free. I might just do this again some time soon.

 

[TexasWine]

One time saver is to use your oven to pre-heat your water overnight. I put the kettle in the oven, set the oven on warm to 150F, go to bed, and when I wake up I'm ready to dough in.

Other folks use a small 1000W heating element and a temp controller (like an STC-1000) to do the same thing overnight.

 

[max384]

So I decided to try and get a quick batch in today. Had the chance last night to mash in. This worked out to a 10 hour mash, I did expect it. Today went as follows:
11AM: Start draining tun
11:20: Stuck sparge. Of all the days, it's the one where I'm on limited time.
11:40: Batch sparging almost done, heating
12:20: Boil achieved nice and lightly no boil over
13:20: Boil done, start chilling and washing tun with runoff water
13:40: Oh crap, I'm out of airlocks
13:50: Keg a batch to free up airlock for blow off
14:15: Chilling over achieved. Transfer to fermenters and pitch
14:30: Deal with leaky poppet on kegged batch. Damn it. I'm in a hurry!
14:45: Done.
1530: Realize I could have swapped the airlocks and put the S onto finished batch.

So it did greatly reduce my time spent today, but at the expense of time yesterday. I think in the end it's about a wash for any time savings. If not for a couple of hiccups it went rather smoothly and pain free. I might just do this again some time soon.

A stuck sparge shouldn't be anything that takes more than a few seconds to correct. If you are draining your mash tun with a hose attached, just lift the hose about the level of the mash, and then blow into it until bubbles come through the mash. In my experience, this fixes it the first time probably 95% of the time. If it doesn't fix it, do it again, but blow harder. You can also use an air compressor, but it's quicker and easier to just blow into it (remember, it's pre-boil, so you don't have to worry about contamination).

 

[whitehause]

Iron butter from PA. You should talk to a guy I worked with at a local Harley dealer in Leesport....Harry Knerr.....He's done them all. ( yes...including the ultimate coast to coast) He's a nut. Did the ultimate in 6 days

 

[Goon]

Once I switched to a higher output patio burner over my stove top I probably cut at least an hour off my brew day and got a vigorous boil too. I am now at about 4.5 hours. Would like to get more efficient and get it under 4 if u can. Certain things just take a specific time though. Mash.....60mins, fly sparge......45mins, boil.......60mins.that really only leaves 75 minutes to heat up water and crash the wort.