Fast Souring - Modern Methods

[Miraculix]

Passionfruit is one of very few fruits I actually like in beer. Petrus Passionfruit is really good if you can find it.

I 100% agree. I don't like fruit beers, I like beer beers. The only beer with fruit I really liked was a wild gooseberry beer I had once and from that one I can easily imagine passion fruit or this little red sour one which I forgot the English name for (johannisbeere in German) within the same sour base. Oh it's gonna be good.

 

[FrozenOcean]

Could I use Wyeast 5335 with this method? It is listed as the strain "Lactobacillus Buchneri". I bought it intending to do a kettle sour, but then found this very interesting thread!

Thanks.

 

[deeve007]

I 100% agree. I don't like fruit beers, I like beer beers. The only beer with fruit I really liked was a wild gooseberry beer I had once and from that one I can easily imagine passion fruit or this little red sour one which I forgot the English name for (johannisbeere in German) within the same sour base. Oh it's gonna be good.

If you're not using some kind of fruit with a sour, what type of sour are you doing?

 

[Miraculix]

If you're not using some kind of fruit with a sour, what type of sour are you doing?

A sour one

... All my sours have been happy little accidents within my gruit beer tryouts.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Could I use Wyeast 5335 with this method? It is listed as the strain "Lactobacillus Buchneri". I bought it intending to do a kettle sour, but then found this very interesting thread!

Thanks.

No, sorry. WY5335 definitely can't be used with these methods.

WY5335 is slow even at high temperature and doesn't produce as much sourness as L. plantarum. I don't recommend anyone use that culture, regardless of your method.

L. plantarum is definitely the king of fast souring. You won't regret using plantarum but you might regret using buchneri (I did when I used it).

If you're not using some kind of fruit with a sour, what type of sour are you doing?

I haven't yet added fruit to a sour beer, and that's probably most of what I make.

Almost none of the traditional styles have fruit: Berliner, Gose, Saison, Kvass, Lambic, Gueuze, Flanders Red, Oud Bruin, Lictenhainer, Faro... Only fruit lambics traditionally have fruit, and they aren't traditionally dessert sweet like Lindemanns pasteurized series.
These commercial fruit smoothies and sours with all kinds of unusual flavor adjuncts (like cucumber sushi curry) are unique American creations, often improperly labeled with the traditional style names. (Also, some people say that the entire concept of beer "styles" is an American creation, but that's a discussion for another thread.)

The bacteria blend I use adds a lot of flavor and I also use very flavorful fruity yeast strains (including Brett, which is amazing) along with the post-sour method.
For example, WLP644 + WY5526 + Lacto makes a sour pineapple + mango + cherry beer with that indescribable Brett character and it's amazing. It also develops a very nice horseblanket if you allow it to age.

WLP644 post-soured makes a great beer without the Brett, and doesn't need temperature control so it's very newbie-friendly! There are plenty of other fruity flavorful yeasts as well.

I also make some hoppy sours, which are quite good. Amarillo is popular for good reason. Czech Saaz works really well too; it's one of my favorites.

Also, malt can obviously add plenty of flavor. Flanders Red is probably my favorite style. The Munich, crystal, and small amounts of Special B malt and oak really complement the cherry Brett character and mix of lactic sourness and slight acetic tang. Grab a bottle of Duchesse de Bourgogne or Rodenbach Grand Cru and give either of those a try.
Plenty of other malts are good for adding dimension too, beyond what I've mentioned.

In a gose, the water profile adds a refreshing minerality. Coriander is traditional, but I prefer to use hops for flavoring in my own spin on this style.

Gruit is flavored with interesting herbs and probably does well with souring, but I haven't gotten around to those quite yet.

These souring methods I've presented allow easy production of complex beers that don't need fruit or any other adjuncts... Not one-note kettle sours.
Of course, if you do like fruit beer, it's probably best to make sour beer as the base since most fruits are naturally sour so it better complements the fruit character.

Cheers

 

[sykesey]

Thanks for the info - I was planning to do my first kettle sour with the Lallemand Sour Pitch, but decided after reading this to try this way. I'm using TYB Simonaitis Lithuanian farmhouse in a 1 litre starter and pitched about 3g of the Sour Pitch into a 23L batch. The rest of the sour pitch i've CO2 purged in a ziplock and frozen, hopefully it lives to see another day sometime.

I've got an inkbird and heatbelt set to 30c (about 85F), overnight it's been about 28c - it's a little cold at the moment, and I need a second heat belt to keep it as hot as I need. Pitch pH was just over 4.5 and it's down to 4.3 after 8 hours of ferment so far.

Using Kveik/Simonaitis plus L.plantarum, I guess it's possible to turn around a sour really fast if you keep the temp above 30C, some of the kveiks will easily go to 36-37C/97F which is the ideal temp for the Sour Pitch according to lallemand. I guess the only risk is that you sour too fast and miss the perfect pH you're aiming for while you're asleep, rather than the process taking a few days at normal 20C/70F-ish temps

anyway will see how it goes. Once it's down to about ph 3.5 I'll be adding a hop tea and dry hopping with some aussie hops I won in a comp - Astra and Enigma.

 

[deeve007]

Thanks for the info - I was planning to do my first kettle sour with the Lallemand Sour Pitch, but decided after reading this to try this way.

The original process doesn't exclude Lallemand Sour Pitch, it's just another bacteria option. I used it for my first ever sour following a simple recipe from @RPh_Guy and it worked a treat!! Using it again for a lime & jalapeno gose I'll be trying...

And the co-pitching method avoids you needing to worry about keeping it so hot at all, room temps are fine.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Pitch pH was just over 4.5

4.5 isn't normal. Did you pre-acidify somehow? That will suppress yeast expression to some extent.

The post-sour I made with Hornindal kveik at 95°F (35°C) I bottled after 3 days. Pretty fast indeed.

Good luck! Keep us updated.

The original process doesn't exclude Lallemand Sour Pitch, it's just another bacteria option. [...] room temps are fine.

The heat is for the yeast, and it sounds like he did use the Lallemand bacteria.
It's all good!

Cheers!

 

[deeve007]

The heat is for the yeast, and it sounds like he did use the Lallemand bacteria.
It's all good!

Ahh okay, so not for the bacteria, just that type of yeast?

 

[sykesey]

The original process doesn't exclude Lallemand Sour Pitch, it's just another bacteria option. I used it for my first ever sour following a simple recipe from @RPh_Guy and it worked a treat!! Using it again for a lime & jalapeno gose I'll be trying...

And the co-pitching method avoids you needing to worry about keeping it so hot at all, room temps are fine.

Ahh okay, so not for the bacteria, just that type of yeast?

Yeah, I just meant i was going to do a "normal" kettle sour, but decided to co-pitch instead. I'm still using the sour pitch + simonaitis.

I pre-acidified the wort after chilling to 4.5 with phosphoric... I want this beer to hopefully have some head, and I was trying to keep in the right ph range for sour pitch. If the yeast is subdued that's fine, it'll be fermenting hot anyway.

There's a commercial sour beer here in Oz i like a lot, the Colonial South West sour, hoping i get somewhere close to it. Grainbill is pale/vienna/wheat and a touch of oats for haze & mouthfeel.

 

[deeve007]

My grain bill for my next gose starts with the 50/50 pils/wheat split I did for my first sour which worked out great (thanks @RPh_Guy!), and adding 10% carapils... and possibly some oats too for haze/smoothness/mouthfeel as you mention (though maybe the carapils does that enough?).

 

[applescrap]

Thanks rph. So glad to find this. Just the other day I was thinking, i really want to make a sour, but the whole kettle method and reboil. I have been wondering if beer would sour at room temp, i mean why wouldnt it. Anyways you answered that. With no chill and no boil this beer is up my alley. A few questions.

With no boil, stability is an issue, does souring the beer help?

Sometimes life gets in way, and i have beers stay in primary for up to 30 days, would this be a problem?

How and when would fruit be added?

Thanks again what a cool thing. I cant wait to make some. All I seem to drink is sours and they sure are going up in cost. Last one was lactose, pineapple, vanilla, and coconut (pina collada?) And it was good, but over 4 a can! One rainbow sherbet sour from prarie, I am sure was fruit loops possibly in the mash, only a guess.

 

[RPh_Guy]

adding 10% carapils... and possibly some oats too for haze/smoothness/mouthfeel as you mention (though maybe the carapils does that enough?).

Look up some threads about carapils. Popular opinion is that it doesn't help with anything in the slightest.

Oats... Check out this article:
http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

Just things I've seen.

Back on topic ...
I've just recently begun to produce beers with good head retention (step mashing is key), so at some point I will be able to weigh in on how much these souring methods affect head.
Or perhaps someone else who's been using these methods already has some experience to share?

@sykesey
That's not exactly what I would do but still sounds ok. It'll be tasty, no worries.
FYI looks like they used munich, not vienna.

Thanks rph. So glad to find this. Just the other day I was thinking, i really want to make a sour, but the whole kettle method and reboil. I have been wondering if beer would sour at room temp, i mean why wouldnt it. Anyways you answered that. With no chill and no boil this beer is up my alley.

Great!

With no boil, stability is an issue, does souring the beer help?

Yes, low pH helps both to reduce the effects of wild microbes and also reduces staling.

Sometimes life gets in way, and i have beers stay in primary for up to 30 days, would this be a problem?

Long primary isn't a problem, but it be fully sour after a couple weeks, and not everyone likes it that sour. You can toss in hops (dry or tea) at any point if you want to prematurely halt souring based on your preference.

How and when would fruit be added?

Same as any fruit beer. It's suggested to add fruit after primary fermentation. If it physically fits in the primary vessel, that's fine, otherwise a secondary is fine too. Allow it another maybe 1-2 weeks to ferment and extract flavor.

If you are using raw fruit I recommend heat Pasteurization (e.g. 150°F for 20 mins) unless you want to take your chances with wild microbes.

If you want a sugary sweet fruit beer like many commercial options, you can add fruit juice at kegging so it doesn't ferment.
Adding lactose is fine too, if you feel the urge.

I feel you on craft sour beer prices. As with other styles, you will probably find yourself enjoying your own brews more than the commercial beer options pretty quickly.
Cheers

 

[deeve007]

How and when would fruit be added?

I made my first sour with the help of a couple of people in this thread, info here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/my-first-sour-brew-progress.669906/

I racked to secondary after a week, gravity stable, onto passionfruit in one fermenter, mixed red fruits in another, for another week, and they both turned out great, though the passionfruit especially so. Trying for a lime & jalapeno gose next...

 

[sykesey]

@sykesey
That's not exactly what I would do but still sounds ok. It'll be tasty, no worries.
FYI looks like they used munich, not vienna.

I didn't really notice the part where you mentioned don't bother pre-acidifying, whoops. Hopefully will all go ok though, it's bubbling away quite well right now and already down to 4.2ph. And yep, they used Munich but I don't have any right now so I made up for it with lots of vienna. Mine was about 43% pale malt, 29% vienna, 22% wheat malt and 6% torrified oats to 1042 OG. It won't be the same, but in the right ballpark. Beersmith says 6.6 EBC but it looks a tiny bit darker than that.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It should be good still. 4.5 definitely won't completely inhibit yeast expression.

I'd like the try that isolate; it sounds delicious.

 

[sykesey]

Tastes amazing already. It's throwing out the signature pineapple-orange-guava along with the tartness & lemon from the L.plantarum.

Thinking about it more, Simonaitis was a good choice, as the original culture was a mixed strain of Sacc and Lactobacillus if i'm not mistaken. Which means the isolated Sacc strain has co-existed with LAB for a while now already, which should make it pretty pH tolerant. It's already down to 1025 SG from starting around 1040, so doesn't seem to be holding back.

Just dry hopped it with 5g each of 2019 crop Astra and Enigma. The Enigma smells amazing. Hopefully it won't be enough to fully inhibit the Lacto, I just want to add a bit of hop flavour now while it's still got some sugar to get through.

(EDIT: Now i realise that amount will probably inhibit the lacto quite a bit - spec sheets say 8ppm beta acid / 4ppm alpha, I've added probably at least 20ppm beta acid... oh well. Don't do what i did unless you want a beer that's not that sour)

Hasn't quite crossed pH 4 yet, just hovering at 4.02, just gotta see what happens over the next couple of hours. But so far, so good!!

 

[applescrap]

Thanks for the tips and answers. So fruit juice is behind the sours I like. I am curious why they wont ferment, assume because they have some sort of preservatives. I am familiar with adding fruit to brew but not so much juice, although I think juice sounds less expensive and easier. I was wondering if the bold flavors were maybe from some sort of sulfate sulfite and backsweetened, hmm, maybe a new thread!

Look up some threads about carapils. Popular opinion is that it doesn't help with anything in the slightest.

Oats... Check out this article:
http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

Just things I've seen.

Back on topic ...
I've just recently begun to produce beers with good head retention (step mashing is key), so at some point I will be able to weigh in on how much these souring methods affect head.
Or perhaps someone else who's been using these methods already has some experience to share?

@sykesey
That's not exactly what I would do but still sounds ok. It'll be tasty, no worries.
FYI looks like they used munich, not vienna.


Great!

Yes, low pH helps both to reduce the effects of wild microbes and also reduces staling.

Long primary isn't a problem, but it be fully sour after a couple weeks, and not everyone likes it that sour. You can toss in hops (dry or tea) at any point if you want to prematurely halt souring based on your preference.

Same as any fruit beer. It's suggested to add fruit after primary fermentation. If it physically fits in the primary vessel, that's fine, otherwise a secondary is fine too. Allow it another maybe 1-2 weeks to ferment and extract flavor.

If you are using raw fruit I recommend heat Pasteurization (e.g. 150°F for 20 mins) unless you want to take your chances with wild microbes.

If you want a sugary sweet fruit beer like many commercial options, you can add fruit juice at kegging so it doesn't ferment.
Adding lactose is fine too, if you feel the urge.

I feel you on craft sour beer prices. As with other styles, you will probably find yourself enjoying your own brews more than the commercial beer options pretty quickly.
Cheers

 

[RPh_Guy]

I am curious why they wont ferment, assume because they have some sort of preservatives.

I believe they flash pasteurize and force carbonate.

If you keg, you can simply prevent fermentation by keeping it cold.
If you bottle, you can heat pasteurize after carbonating like some home cider makers do. Those are the main options.

Personally, I prefer yeast-derived fruit flavor vs most fruit beer. I suggest a post-sour batch with wlp644 as an easy introduction, with 0.5oz of your favorite fruity hop tea added when packaging. Just my preference.

Just dry hopped it with 5g each of 2019 crop Astra and Enigma. The Enigma smells amazing. Hopefully it won't be enough to fully inhibit the Lacto, I just want to add a bit of hop flavour now while it's still got some sugar to get through.

(EDIT: Now i realise that amount will probably inhibit the lacto quite a bit - spec sheets say 8ppm beta acid / 4ppm alpha, I've added probably at least 20ppm beta acid... oh well. Don't do what i did unless you want a beer that's not that sour)

Yeah...... L. plantarum is extremely hop-sensitive.
Was this a 19L batch or thereabouts?

We don't actually know the minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) for dry hop quantity (or to what extent the AA level comes into play) for L. plantarum but it's definitely very low. It'll be interesting to see if this continues to sour.

 

[sykesey]

Yeah...... L. plantarum is extremely hop-sensitive.
Was this a 19L batch or thereabouts?

We don't actually know the minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) for dry hop quantity (or to what extent the AA level comes into play) for L. plantarum but it's definitely very low. It'll be interesting to see if this continues to sour.

Yep, 21L or thereabouts - the FV i'm using doesnt have marks on it so i'm not 100% sure but its about 21-22L.

It's still souring, just not as fast as before, some of that is the logarithmic nature of pH but it's slowly happening. A couple of hours ago it was 4.05 or so and now it's just at 3.98, i'll just see how it goes over the next couple of days. I'll be happy if it hovers around 3.8-3.9 final pH, this doesn't need to be a super tart beer, more like a session sour ale as we come into summer here. I've tasted other sours that finished about that mark and it makes for a nicely balanced refreshing beer.
I guess the LAB culture still managed to grow quite a lot in the time before the hops, so hopefully there's enough cells in there to keep souring even if it's a bit subdued.

 

[sykesey]

Still souring. I chucked together a quick graph of ph (blue, left axis) and gravity (yellow, right axis). I punched up the inkbird to 34C to get it right in the right range for the plantarum to do its thing, i will see how it goes from here. It's down to about 3.85pH right now, which would work well for this beer I think.

I measured the commercial example (colonial) last night and that came to 3.79pH so i'm going to be about right if it stays in the 3.8x range. I'll probably wait for it to finish fermenting, which won't take much longer, and then boil up a tea to get some proper isomerised IBU's into it.

Graph's a bit rough, so not using it to predict anything just yet, i'm gonna assume that the final gravity will be under 1.010

 

[RPh_Guy]

Interesting, thanks!

I measured the commercial example (colonial) last night and that came to 3.79pH

Keep in mind that while the pH is useful for monitoring the Lacto souring progress, it's not all that useful for comparing the level of sour taste between different beers.

 

[sykesey]

Interesting, thanks!

Keep in mind that while the pH is useful for monitoring the Lacto souring progress, it's not all that useful for comparing the level of sour taste between different beers.

Indeed. I've been tasting as well, and its good at the moment taste wise. Maybe just needs to be a little bit more sour. If I'm doing this more, i'll probably invest in some kit to be able to titrate acidity to measure TA.

 

[RPh_Guy]

i will see how it goes from here.

How did it do?

 

[sykesey]

View attachment 652715


How did it do?

Going good so far. I bottled it a week or so ago, needs another week or two to carbonate properly. But was tasting good when I bottled. I ended up adding citric acid to it to boost the acidity in the end. I wasn't totally sure about doing that but after visiting a local brewery that specialises in sours/mixed cultures (Wildflower) and seeing how balanced a quite sour beer can be I decided that I needed more acid.

Next time i'll let the lacto go longer, and probably add some munich to get it a bit maltier but so far it's where I want it.

 

[jrgtr42]

I've tried a couple kettle sours, and a fast sour, but I wasn't hugely impressed.
I've also done some long ones, and I think that those have a deeper, more complex flavor than the others, which tend, (IMO, and IME) to be more one-note sour.
It could be my taste, or that I did something wrong... but for now I'll stick to my 10 - 12 month aging.

 

[jrgtr42]

I've tried a couple kettle sours, and a fast sour, but I wasn't hugely impressed.
I've also done some long ones, and I think that those have a deeper, more complex flavor than the others, which tend, (IMO, and IME) to be more one-note sour.
It could be my taste, or that I did something wrong... but for now I'll stick to my 10 - 12 month aging.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I ended up adding citric acid to it to boost the acidity in the end.

Did you test the pH it reached (before adding acid)?

Its best not to add hops before it reaches the desired sourness.

I've tried a couple kettle sours, and a fast sour, but I wasn't hugely impressed.
I've also done some long ones, and I think that those have a deeper, more complex flavor than the others, which tend, (IMO, and IME) to be more one-note sour.
It could be my taste, or that I did something wrong... but for now I'll stick to my 10 - 12 month aging.

Are you comparing these fast Lacto sours to mixed sours with Brett? It's not really a fair comparison.
Brettanomyces is amazing.

For your "fast sour", what was your recipe and process? The beers made with these suggested processes definitely aren't "one-note".

 

[sykesey]

Did you test the pH it reached (before adding acid)?

Its best not to add hops before it reaches the desired sourness.

Yep, was about 3.97 on my pH meter, compared to the commercial example at about 3.8.

Got down to about 3.84-ish with some citric, and had good balance at that point.

Next time i'll probably aim for 3.7ish without the additions, maybe with some extra fruit.

 

[Beer666]

I have a pack of WLP672 lacto brevis and wonder if you have used this? Would you know how many IBU's it can tolerate? Thanks.

 

[RPh_Guy]

WLP672 is not good for co-souring even with no hops.

 

[Jag75]

I dont know how i didnt see this thread before. This thread is great and should be a sticky . I can say that I followed this method and have had to make batch after batch for people because they love it so much . Good stuff . Nice thread sour whisperer lol

 

[Soulshine2]

I was really skeptical about doing a sour . Did some asking and a lot of reading here. My first sour turned out awesome although it did take a few days longer than a non-sour it was all worth it. Probably one of my best brews yet.
Pretty simple procedure- Brew as you would normally except leave the hops schedule out ,chill and pitch your Lacto Planarum(I used Goodbellys) and wait (up to) 48 hrs, return to a quick boil (15 minutes) and add hops. I chose the recommendation of a low hop amount(roughly 1/3 of what I normally would add to a non-sour brew ) so as not to overpower the souring. Chill and pitch yeast , ferment as usual, then racked over the fruit(blackberries ,lime zest and hibiscus). As soon as it was bottle conditioned and ready to drink I had 3 down like a fat kid on a see-saw.
Thanks to those who basically mentored me along the sour path.

 

[Miraculix]

I was really skeptical about doing a sour . Did some asking and a lot of reading here. My first sour turned out awesome although it did take a few days longer than a non-sour it was all worth it. Probably one of my best brews yet.
Pretty simple procedure- Brew as you would normally except leave the hops schedule out ,chill and pitch your Lacto Planarum(I used Goodbellys) and wait (up to) 48 hrs, return to a quick boil (15 minutes) and add hops. I chose the recommendation of a low hop amount(roughly 1/3 of what I normally would add to a non-sour brew ) so as not to overpower the souring. Chill and pitch yeast , ferment as usual, then racked over the fruit(blackberries ,lime zest and hibiscus). As soon as it was bottle conditioned and ready to drink I had 3 down like a fat kid on a see-saw.
Thanks to those who basically mentored me along the sour path.

That's basically the opposite approach of which is promoted here?!

 

[Soulshine2]

That's basically the opposite approach of which is promoted here?!

depends on what method or approach you prefer. This happened to have worked perfectly for me.
theres a lot of other things promoted here but not for me(e.g.-BIAB, LODO,stainless steel conicals, excessive electronics pumps, etc )

 

[Miraculix]

depends on what method or approach you prefer. This happened to have worked perfectly for me.
theres a lot of other things promoted here but not for me(e.g.-BIAB, LODO,stainless steel conicals, excessive electronics pumps, etc )

I'm just talking about the souring process. You basically did a classic kettle sour.

 

[deeve007]

Yep, so not what the thread's about...

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Love this method an incorporating Brett in the mix as well, awesome as always rPH!

 

[fun4stuff]

Making sour beer doesn't need to be complicated!
These techniques are a good alternative to the antiquated kettle souring method.

Co-Souring Method:

• Make unhopped wort. Chill as normal.
• Pitch Lactobacillus plantarum and the yeast of your choice.
• Ferment as normal, at 65°F or higher.
• Optional/recommended add hops when it reaches the desired sourness. (Dry hops or hop tea)
• Package as normal.

Post-Souring Method:
Same as co-souring, except pitch the Lactobacillus after 1-2 days of fermentation (or 8-12 hours if using kveik and fermenting hot).

Post-souring is designed to maximize yeast flavor. It's great if you want to use an estery yeast like WLP644 (Sacc Trois) for example, which adds a nice tropical pineapple & mango profile.


FAQ
Q: Won't the Lacto ruin my equipment or contaminate my other beers?
A: No. Normal cleaning and sanitation procedures easily remove L. plantarum. Furthermore, L. plantarum is extremely hop-sensitive and will not sour your clean beers with hops, even if you directly add it. These techniques actually have LESS risk overall of contamination compared to kettle souring.

Q: Where do I get L. plantarum?
A: Several sources are readily available in the US: Swanson's L. plantarum capsules can be purchased online. GoodBelly liquid probiotic and Renew Life Ultimate Flora are both widely available in stores. Many are now even keeping the Renew Life refrigerated, which is awesome. Lallemand offers pure L. plantarum as WildBrew Sour Pitch. Other yeast labs sell Lacto blends of L. plantarum mixed with other species, often L. brevis (use these blends at your own risk because they are more hop-tolerant).
Store the Lacto in the refrigerator. The dry capsules will last a very long time.

Q: Do I need to make a starter for the Lacto?
A: It's not needed, however if you use the post-souring process, I do recommend a starter.
Starter procedure: After chilling, drain about 200-500mL wort into a sanitized jar. Add the Lacto and a few grams of calcium carbonate. Cover and let sit at room temp. When pitching, decant it off of the calcium carbonate (you don't want the chalk in your beer).

Q: How much Lacto do I pitch?
A: Pitch rate isn't very important. Feel free to use 1-2 capsules or a few ounces of GoodBelly in 5 gallons.

Q: Won't it take months to sour?
A. No. L. plantarum sours quickly (within a couple days) anywhere in the range of 65-100°F. It will finish in the same timeframe as non-sour beer. I've gone from grain to packaging in 3 days.

Q: How long should I boil the wort?
A: Boiling is entirely optional since we don't need to isomerize alpha acids in hops. Mash temperature pasteurizes the wort.

Q: What amount of hops should I add?
A: Anywhere from 0.5 oz to 1 oz per 5 gallons adds a nice hop character (in my opinion) and completely inhibits further souring.

Q: Do the bacteria add flavor?
A: Generally, yes, depending on the source of L. plantarum you use. Frequently the Lacto contributes a nice lemony citrus tartness, notes of berry and melon, and possibly some slight funk. Adding hops after reaching desired sourness will reduce the funk complexity. The Renew Life blend probably adds more flavor than a single species culture and it also creates a more funky profile when used at high temperature (e.g. when souring with kveik at 95°F).

Q: Will it continue to sour if I don't add hops?
A: Yes, possibly, but Lacto's ability to produce acid is self-limiting. Normally this species finishes around pH 3.1-3.3.

Q: What is hop tea?
A: Boil the hops for 5-10 minutes in 300-500mL of chlorine-free water. Dump it into your batch. If you add it at bottling, strain through a hop sock. Added bitterness will be minimal.

Q: Do I need a pH meter?
A: Not really. If you're inclined to stop the souring before it finishes naturally, you can do it by taste.

Q: Do I need to pre-acidify the wort?
A: Nope!

Q: Should I pitch more yeast than normal, or add yeast at bottling?
A: Nope!

Q: Can I use yeast cake from a previous batch?
A: Only if there were absolutely no hops in the batch from which you harvested it.

Q: Will the beer benefit from aging?
A: Nope!

Q: Is this beer probiotic?
A: Yes!

Please share your experience with these techniques. Happy to answer any questions!
Cheers!

I read on another thread that you usually boil after the mash but before adding yeast or lacto? How long do you boil for?

I started my sour hef yesterday. Going to add lacto later today (24 hrs after wlp300). I didn’t boil at all though. Probably bad for head retention right, but otherwise okay? I sanitized my chiller in the wort at 165 deg for 15 mins- hope this ok.

 

[RPh_Guy]

How long do you boil for?

I boil for 60 minutes if it contains pilsner, otherwise 45 minutes. This allows for good break formation (which I leave in the kettle), and it thoroughly sanitizes the kettle where I do the chilling (I use a 2-vessel system, so my kettle doesn't get sanitized during the mash).

What you did sounds good. Boiling is optional since we don't need any hop isomerization. No worries!