FAQ: Aluminum Pots for Boil Kettles?

[Cheaton]

This is from this year...

American Journal of Epidemiology, February 15, 2009

http://www.newsmax.com/health/aluminum_Alzheimer_risk/2009/03/05/188720.html

 

[Cheaton]

Look, the bottom line is you CANNOT post this thread, sticky it, and tell everyone on this board that boiling your wort in aluminum pot will definitely not lead to an increased risk of Alzheimers. It is factually incorrect, and irresponsible. Until the scientific community says "there is no link".... then there is possibility of a link. Period... Full stop (for our non-american friends). Noone on this board is qualified to make the judgement of whether it is safe or not safe. Post the FACTS and let people judge for themselves. What does the HBT community have to lose by getting the facts correct? Last I checked we're not in the Aluminum business.....

 

[AnOldUR]

I would respectfully ask the mods to change the verbage of the sticky first post to read "has not been proven" instead of "has been debunked". Because that is the correct, factual, and responsible information. Even the links posted state clearly that there has been no definitive proof either way.

Just leave it alone. Debunked doesn't only mean disproven. Let's just go with the demystify usage . . .

debunk
Definition: To expose and disprove false or exaggerated claims.
Also Known As: disprove, refute, demystify

 

[AnOldUR]

If the acids in your food can leech into the aluminum and cause pitting, then the aluminum can CERTAINLY leach into your food.

And just for anyone who doesn't know, if you properly condition and maintain your aluminum pot there will never be any pitting. Before using your pot for wort, fill it with water and boil for an hour. Do not clean off the black oxidized layer with an abrasive scrubbing pad. Only use a soft cloth and mild detergent. That layer will prevent pitting and protect your pot.

 

[Cheaton]

Just leave it alone. Debunked doesn't only mean disproven. Let's just go with the demystify usage . . .

Wow... ok.. ignorance is bliss I guess. Here's a few more then..

Debunked: The existence of God. Because no evidence exists to the contrary, the existence of God is FALSE.

Debunked: The big bang theory. Because it has never been proven, it must be FALSE.

 

[taylornate]

Wow... ok.. ignorance is bliss I guess. Here's a few more then..

Debunked: The existence of God. Because no evidence exists to the contrary, the existence of God is FALSE.

Debunked: The big bang theory. Because it has never been proven, it must be FALSE.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say with this post, other than that it appears to have inflammatory intent.

Also, you seem to have ignored my post, in which I explain why I think the usage of the word "debunked" may be appropriate.

 

[AnOldUR]

I think I've just been called ignorant. Isn't name calling an offense here?


Where's a mod when you need one.

 

[Rhoobarb]

Aluminum boil pots are just fine. I used one for years and still use it as an HLT.

Since the idea that the metal might be a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease was first proposed there have been numerous conferences on aluminium and health. The medical research community, international and government regulatory agencies and the aluminium industry all review the evidence at frequent intervals. The overwhelming medical and scientific opinion is that the findings outlined above do not convincingly demonstrate a causal relationship between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease, and that no useful medical or public health recommendations can be made − at least at present (Massey and Taylor 1989)

 

[Cheaton]

I really don't understand what you are trying to say with this post, other than that it appears to have inflammatory intent.

Also, you seem to have ignored my post, in which I explain why I think the usage of the word "debunked" may be appropriate.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory. I'm trying to make the point that again, no proof does not equal disproven. I saw your post, but the language of the first post clearly states that the writer is saying that any link between alzheimers and aluminum is false. This is not true..... this is not factual..... this is speculative at best based on a few web links. I truely hope you folks do your own research on this subject and make your own decision based on what you read outside of this website. Read the links posted in this post but go out and find some more. There's more info and more recent info out there like the link I posted a few posts back. I have no stake in what anyone chooses. Neither does HBT. So it only makes sense to give the most correct, factual, and responsible information. HBT is DEFINITELY not the source you should be consulting about your health.

Is making your beer in an aluminum pot going to cause an increased risk of Alzheimers....the fact is... Probably not, but noone can say for sure! It's not false, its not debunked, it is currently and actively being studied and debated.
Whats the problem with saying this?

P.S. My motive is the that its a HUGE pet peeve of mine when theories are presented as fact, especially in documents that are meant for public consumption related to health matters......

 

[Synovia]

I'd like to say that the link between aluminum and alzheimers has NOT been debunked. The scientific community simply has not been able to find any definitive proof of a link (yet). This is not the same as disproving. This is still being researched, therefore, there are still scientists who believe a link may exist. In science, proof is proof, but a lack of proof is not proof. I'm not trying to stir up debate on the subject.

Its impossible to negatively prove something.


At this point, there's just as much evidence that stainless pots cause cancer, or warts, as there is evidence that aluminum pots cause Alzheimer's.

 

[wildwest450]

I'm not trying to be inflammatory. I'm trying to make the point that again, no proof does not equal disproven. I saw your post, but the language of the first post clearly states that the writer is saying that any link between alzheimers and aluminum is false. This is not true..... this is not factual..... this is speculative at best based on a few web links. I truely hope you folks do your own research on this subject and make your own decision based on what you read outside of this website. Read the links posted in this post but go out and find some more. There's more info and more recent info out there like the link I posted a few posts back. I have no stake in what anyone chooses. Neither does HBT. So it only makes sense to give the most correct, factual, and responsible information. HBT is DEFINITELY not the source you should be consulting about your health.

Is making your beer in an aluminum pot going to cause an increased risk of Alzheimers....the fact is... Probably not, but noone can say for sure! It's not false, its not debunked, it is currently and actively being studied and debated.
Whats the problem with saying this?

The problem is your being argumentative. People have enough evidence to make their own decision on the matter. I brew with aluminum and will continue to do so.

 

[AnOldUR]

My motive is the that its a HUGE pet peeve of mine when theories are presented as fact, especially in documents that are meant for public consumption related to health matters......

Myths About Aluminum Pots:
- Aluminum pots will cause Alzheimer's disease. FALSE. This myth was debunked years ago by the medical research community . . .

The above quote by the OP seems to be your point of contention. What he says is that the statement, "Aluminum pots will cause Alzheimer's disease" is a myth. By your own logic what he says is true. If someone says that aluminum WILL cause Alzheimer's and it has not been proven, then what they are saying is a myth. And he made plenty of references that debunk it.




If you're only looking for an argument, go to the Debate Forum. Please quit trying to scare the noobs.

 

[taylornate]

but the language of the first post clearly states that the writer is saying that any link between alzheimers and aluminum is false.

This is a completely accurate statement. It is not the same as saying it has been proven that there is no link.

Is making your beer in an aluminum pot going to cause an increased risk of Alzheimers....the fact is... Probably not, but noone can say for sure! It's not false, its not debunked, it is currently and actively being studied and debated.
Whats the problem with saying this?

You claim in the first part of this post that the word "debunked" is not what you take issue with, but in this part you go right back to it.

Because you continue to ignore a big part of my post, I will rephrase it:

Some people say:

Aluminum causes alzheimers!

This statement is not true. It is false. It is debunked. This is what the original post says. This is not the same as saying "aluminum definitely does not cause alzheimers".

Another point in my post was this:

Can anyone say that your risk of alzheimers is higher with an aluminum pot than with stainless steel or ceramic or anything else? I doubt it.

What have scientists said about stainless steel? I bet they say the same thing they say about aluminum, which would make the whole discussion moot.

P.S. My motive is the that its a HUGE pet peeve of mine when theories are presented as fact, especially in documents that are meant for public consumption related to health matters......

Why should we care one bit about your pet peeve? We are not here to please you.

 

[FlyGuy]

I suppose I should chime in and clear up a few things. Cheaton, it appears that you have misread my article and jumped to some false conclusions. My article states that the idea that aluminum pots cause alzheimer's disease has been debunked. I did not refute that there was a connection beteween alzheimer's and aluminum. Those are two different statements that you seem to have confused for one another.

The bottom line is that your body absorbs very low amounts of aluminum from foods prepared in aluminum pots compared to other sources of aluminum, such as antacid tablets or antiperspirant. Even if there is a link between aluminum and alzheimers, aluminum pots would play only a small contributing role -- they could not be considered to CAUSE alzheimers. That we know to be true because the majority of our population that has used aluminum cookware has NOT developed alzheimers.

And to correct your misunderstanding of the scientific process, progress in science is made by evaluating the weights of evidence (objective knowledge), which is most strongly influenced by the process of DISPROVING (falsifying) hypotheses and postulates, not by PROVING them. Proof is a fairly empty concept in science. If you want to learn more, look up Popperian philosophy of falsification. It is standard reading for students in the science disciplines, particularly the biological sciences.

 

[Cheaton]

I suppose I should chime in and clear up a few things. Cheaton, it appears that you have misread my article and jumped to some false conclusions. My article states that the idea that aluminum pots cause alzheimer's disease has been debunked. I did not refute that there was a connection beteween alzheimer's and aluminum. Those are two different statements that you seem to have confused for one another.

The bottom line is that your body absorbs very low amounts of aluminum from foods prepared in aluminum pots compared to other sources of aluminum, such as antacid tablets or antiperspirant. Even if there is a link between aluminum and alzheimers, aluminum pots would play only a small contributing role -- they could not be considered to CAUSE alzheimers. That we know to be true because the majority of our population that has used aluminum cookware has NOT developed alzheimers.

And to correct your misunderstanding of the scientific process, progress in science is made by evaluating the weights of evidence (objective knowledge), which is most strongly influenced by the process of DISPROVING (falsifying) hypotheses and postulates, not by PROVING them. Proof is a fairly empty concept in science. If you want to learn more, look up Popperian philosophy of falsification. It is standard reading for students in the science disciplines, particularly the biological sciences.

You are correct. I did read the statement incorrectly. You do clearly state that the myth debunked is Aluminum WILL cause Alzheimers. I apologize for my misinterpretation of your statement. I completely understand the scientific process. I live my daily life with a scientist. I am constantly railed on about how most things are never really "proven". Which is part and partial to my annoyance with facts being misrepresented and things being presented as fact that are clearly still hotly debated. I have been conditioned by SWMBO to check check and check again, and when you check the last time go ahead and check one more time just to be sure. Unfortunately, I didn't do this when I read your statement. In spite of this, I do think its still important to understand that this subject is still being researched rather heavily and there really isn't yet a real concensus to put this to bed. But yes, the issue has really NEVER been whether or not it WILL cause alzheimers, just whether or not it may contribute to, or be a link to, the increasing cases since the industrial age.

I had no intention of simply being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative and apologize if I came across that way.

 

[FlyGuy]

You are correct. I did read the statement incorrectly. You do clearly state that the myth debunked is Aluminum WILL cause Alzheimers. I apologize for my misinterpretation of your statement. I completely understand the scientific process. I live my daily life with a scientist. I am constantly railed on about how most things are never really "proven". Which is part and partial to my annoyance with facts being misrepresented and things being presented as fact that are clearly still hotly debated. I have been conditioned by SWMBO to check check and check again, and when you check the last time go ahead and check one more time just to be sure. Unfortunately, I didn't do this when I read your statement. In spite of this, I do think its still important to understand that this subject is still being researched rather heavily and there really isn't yet a real concensus to put this to bed. But yes, the issue has really NEVER been whether or not it WILL cause alzheimers, just whether or not it may contribute to, or be a link to, the increasing cases since the industrial age.

I had no intention of simply being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative and apologize if I came across that way.

I have seen a lot of arguments on this board and others, but rarely have I seen such a considerate reply when someone has learned they may have made a mistake along the way. I wish all who debate could be as reasonable and thoughtful as you, sir.

 

[taylornate]

I have seen a lot of arguments on this board and others, but rarely have I seen such a considerate reply when someone has learned they may have made a mistake along the way. I wish all who debate could be as reasonable and thoughtful as you, sir.

I agree!

 

[AnOldUR]

I wish all who debate could be as reasonable and thoughtful as you, sir.

Well said!





Edit: All this toasting is making me thirsty!

 

[bradsul]

I was getting the ban hammer ready and then you guys had to go and be all polite and civil, way to ruin my day.

 

[Cheaton]

I was getting the ban hammer ready and then you guys had to go and be all polite and civil, way to ruin my day.

Oh man, please don't whack me with that hammer, I'd be lost without this forum!

 

[D_BLOCK]

This post is great. Very informative and even has a bit of drama to spice it up.

I am prob going to get an AL brewpot, but wanted to check two things first. I'm going to do All Grain, so the wort will have a slightly lower pH. Will this remove the protective oxidated layer?

I'm going to install a ball valve. Is their a problem due to galvanic corrosion if I use brass or stainless steel fittings? The fittings will be weldless.

 

[jkarp]

I am prob going to get an AL brewpot, but wanted to check two things first. I'm going to do All Grain, so the wort will have a slightly lower pH. Will this remove the protective oxidated layer?

I'm going to install a ball valve. Is their a problem due to galvanic corrosion if I use brass or stainless steel fittings? The fittings will be weldless.

Low pH is what creates the oxide layer. No worries there.

With properly fitted weldless fittings, only the o-rings would be touching the pot. Besides, corrosion requires long-term wet exposure.

 

[abracadabra]

'There is more aluminum in a common antacid tablet than would be present in a batch of beer made in an aluminum pot.'

That's directly from How to Brew by John Palmer.

This is only true if the common antacid tablet happens to be a Rolaids tablet, which I won't take for that very reason.

But:

Most all other antacids tablets do not contain aluminum. Tums and the like contains calcium as the main antacid ingredient, no aluminum. Also PPI antacid tablets such as Nexium and Prilosec do not contain aluminum.

My advise would be to read the ingredient list before you purchase antacid tablets. If you care about such things as how much aluminum you ingest.

 

[Hoppus_Poppatopolis]

Uisng aiunulmm hnsat csuaed pblormes for me.

 

[jkarp]

Heh, I see what you did there.

 

[Bdogg]

1st post. REALLY glad I found this thread - I have a brand new aluminum pot and was about to use it without boiling water in it and turning it black first. Seeing the color and smell of the water after I boiled it I think that it probably would have had a... bad effect on the beer. Thanks!

 

[slouch]

This is my second attempt at posting this, so apologies if it shows up twice. I got an blank page the first time I tried, and noticed the post wasn't listed... so here I go again.

I have been lurking here for some time, and finally decided to register.

My latest project is converting an aluminum turkey fryer kettle into a hot liquor tank. I installed an electric heating element, and after many failed attempts at the bulkhead connection ended up JB welding a hose thread quick disconnect to the outside.

I filled the kettle half full for my first boil, as I just wanted to make sure everything was working.

The boil worked, and the bottom half of the kettle turned a dark grey.

I then filled the whole thing, and tried again to get the top to oxidize too.

No luck.

The top stays shiny.

I thought it might be some sort of hard water deposit, so attempted to steel wool the top. Again no luck, though I did notice some greying in areas. This made me think I was on the right track, but just had not been aggressive enough with the steel wool.

I tried my wire brush, and got it really shiny on top (I left the bottom black). Still the top stays bright, and the bottom gets darker with each boil.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Can I use my dutch bunny colored kettle with out the black layer on top? Should I brush down the entire kettle to shiny and start over?

Any ideas?

I have been working on it (on and off) for a couple weeks now, and am starting to wonder if I am going to be able to use the kettle at all after this....

 

[bradsul]

My kettle did the same thing, I have no idea why. I decided not to worry about it. Even without being dark it still has the oxide layer. Brew on!

You can clearly see the rings in my kettle from the initial test boil on my stove.

 

[wildwest450]

I tried my wire brush, and got it really shiny on top (I left the bottom black). Still the top stays bright, and the bottom gets darker with each boil.

If your trying to season the pot, why take a wire brush to it? Just refill to the top, boil it and use it, you'll be fine.

 

[mikeysab]

I filled my 30 qt to 3 inches below lthe top and boiled that sucka for 30 minutes and the whole thing is much darker than it was. worked for me.

 

[slouch]

I was using the wire brush because I thought our really hard water here was forming a build up and preventing the proper seasoning.

It did seem to help a little. Though I have boiled about 10-12 full batches of water for several hours each, and still can't get the top of my kettle to go black.

The bottom is very black by the way. So black that it almost looks like soot or lamp black.

 

[bradsul]

The oxide layer is there, don't worry about the colour. Brew away!

 

[slouch]

sounds good i'll give it a shot.

 

[Montanaandy]

We have a nice old restaurant quality Wearever 24 qt thick walled Alum. pot that I want to use for 5 gal boils. Was sitting hidden in the basement for years so it was dusty, full of animal hair. Wife used oxyclean to clean it out/get it ready for use as I now know is a no-no. Is the pot toast with respect to using it to boil wort or as an HLT? It still has the black oxidization "ring" up about 3/4 of the length of the pot. Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[bradsul]

We have a nice old restaurant quality Wearever 24 qt thick walled Alum. pot that I want to use for 5 gal boils. Was sitting hidden in the basement for years so it was dusty, full of animal hair. Wife used oxyclean to clean it out/get it ready for use as I now know is a no-no. Is the pot toast with respect to using it to boil wort or as an HLT? It still has the black oxidization "ring" up about 3/4 of the length of the pot. Thanks, Montanaandy

I would fill it up and do a water boil for an hour just to be safe. After that it will be just fine.

 

[Montanaandy]

Fortunately I am in the process of doing a full boil (well about 2" from the top) and I came across your message. Thanks. I am really looking forward to using this kettle because it is a really thick, high grade of Alu. & I would hate to see it not be put to use. I paid a fair amount for it years ago. Montanaandy

 

[springer]

you don't want to use the water for the initial boil to oxidize the pot in your beer.

 

[Montanaandy]

Well I boiled the water for an hour and now the oxidize ring has pretty much disappeared! WTF? We are on whole-house R.O. so that may have made a difference. Any suggestions as to what I should do or perhaps I should just dedicate this pot to my venison spaghetti sauce. Montanaandy

 

[bradsul]

It's fine, go ahead and use it.

 

[Islandboy85]

Just out of curiosity, some of the turkey pots do seem thin. Has anyone ever thought about installing a doubler with the ball valve to give it some structure; or is this still unnecessary?