extreme beer challenge : (low alcohol)

[Owly055]

I find that there is very little I really like to drink......... I never ever drink soda, I don't care for the foo foo drinks they sell in the convenience stores, milk doesn't agree with me, I rarely drink fruit juices.....Most of these things I object to due to the cloying and offensive sweetness.

I drink water, coffee, and beer.........and home made kombucha.......that is about all except whiskey.

The real problem is traveling and daytime drinking. I'd rather be sipping a beer than almost anything else when I'm not drinking coffee. But I don't need or really want the alcohol, except in the evening when I want to relax. Alcohol makes me lethargic, and interferes with my mental processes which are critical to what I do.

Here's the challenge............ How can a beer be brewed that is refreshing, thirst quenching, and satisfying but extremely low to no alcohol? Obviously much of the flavor characteristic of a good beer comes from the fermentation process itself. That means that we need to remove alcohol in some way... perhaps by a freezing process. Remove the alcohol and I think most beers will seem flat and bland. What could be done with hops and carbonation..... and the malt profile to compensate for the missing alcohol? I really would love to have some 1/2-1% alcohol beer that I can sip on while going down the road instead of water or crappy convenience store coffee. Something I can grab out of the fridge and drink and be refreshed without that alcohol buzz. Kombucha is my current go to drink....... cheap to make and refreshing, but there's only so much of it you want to drink. I've experimented with various ways of cross breeding beer and kombucha. The acid profile of the booch has a great deal of effect on it's refreshing character.
What can be brought into beer to make extremely low alcohol beer satisfying???

Everybody seems obsessed with "high gravity". That's fine if you want to get drunk or seriously buzzed........ If you don't, if you just want satisfying refreshment.... it isn't. Any idiot can up the grain bill and brew a beer at extreme ABV.. that really doesn't take much skill.............. It takes someone with real skill to make a beer at just a couple points that is extremely satisfying. I've been watching the microbrew revolution steadily escalate the points in an "alcohol arms race"......It's as pointless as nuclear overkill!


......... Ideas anybody? I know this is completely "outside the box" thinking, in fact every time I've mentioned it, the silence has been deafening......Like farting in church!


H.W.

 

[casesensative]

Recently made Orfys Mild recipe on here, and ended up not getting as much effeciency as id hoped. The beer ended up at 2.6% and yet still felt very full and incredibly balanced. It was actually delicious, and still think it's one of the best I've ever made. Drank it all the time. Maybe that's one for you to try. Good luck.

 

[BakRivrBruen]

I found this thread a long time ago that ignited my curiosity into making an NA beer.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/creating-na-how-i-neutered-my-beer-39433/

I never had any desire to make one until I discovered that thread. I've been looking for a new challenge recently and this might just be the ticket.

 

[NTexBrewer]

http://beerandwinejournal.com/rye-wit-session-beer/

I brewed this yesterday. I'll report back on how it turned out.

http://byo.com/low-alcohol-brewing/item/263-brew-a-great-non-alcoholic-beer

Here is a good article on removing alcohol

 

[prpromin]

What about a Berlinner Weiss? I'm thinking something like Bell's Oarsman. The commercial version clocks in at 4% abv. You could do a sour mash (no bugs) and get the flavor you like. No cloying sweetness there.

 

[Teromous]

I know this is completely "outside the box" thinking, in fact every time I've mentioned it, the silence has been deafening......Like farting in church!

It actually isn't that rare of a request. I think it's just one of those things that pops up from time to time that some people get tired of talking about. They're generally called "session beers," so that should get you on the right track of what to look for when looking for recipes. You can check out some podcasts from Brew Strong and The Sunday Session that talk about session beers.

 

[Owly055]

Obviously I'm not the first to bring this up............. The factory non-alcoholics I've tried are for the most part garbage IMHO. I'm told that there is at least one decent non-alcoholic out there commercially.

I'd love to be able to pull into the local convenience store when traveling and grab a beer to sip as I go down the road..........knowing that it would taste good, clean, and refereshing....... rather than the cloying sweet garbage that comprises most of the selection.... and know I wasn't breaking the law.

It would be interesting to do the 173 degree heat described in one of the links.......more interesting yet to pour the beer in a pressure cooker, heat it, and draw a vacuum to reduce the boiling temp..........But that's probably not practical for most folks. I do have a couple of vac pumps, but not ones I would want to use that way.

Freezing works to concentrate alcohol.......but not to reduce it because the flavor tends to stay with the liquid

My thinking is that if you did the heating to remove alcohol, you would want to hop close to or at flameout to recover some of what you probably lost. You might also want to pressure carb to a higher than normal level.

As I write, I'm drinking a "booch beer"............... This is kombucha bottled with a mixture made of fresh grated ginger, star anise, a few cinnamon sticks, and dark malt syrup. I cooked it all up with some water, pitched yeast, and allowed it to ferment out, then used it as a bottling flavoring with kombucha.... 1/4 cup per liter. It resulted in a rich malty flavor, with some ginger heat in lieu of hops. Anybody have a suggestion of a suitable hop that would have a sharp citrusy flavor that I could dry hop this mixture with. The product is very good as it is..... the very low alcohol doesn't detract at all.

I will try a very low gravity beer after I do the next batch........ The Rye Wit recipe looks like it is well worth a shot.




H.W.

 

[hunter_le five]

Ever try making something like Kvass? Very easy to make, very low alcohol, and tasty. I'm sure you could modify a basic recipe to make it more beer-like.

 

[Clonefan94]

I find that there is very little I really like to drink......... I never ever drink soda, I don't care for the foo foo drinks they sell in the convenience stores, milk doesn't agree with me, I rarely drink fruit juices.....Most of these things I object to due to the cloying and offensive sweetness.

I drink water, coffee, and beer.........and home made kombucha.......that is about all except whiskey.

The real problem is traveling and daytime drinking. I'd rather be sipping a beer than almost anything else when I'm not drinking coffee. But I don't need or really want the alcohol, except in the evening when I want to relax. Alcohol makes me lethargic, and interferes with my mental processes which are critical to what I do.

Here's the challenge............ How can a beer be brewed that is refreshing, thirst quenching, and satisfying but extremely low to no alcohol? Obviously much of the flavor characteristic of a good beer comes from the fermentation process itself. That means that we need to remove alcohol in some way... perhaps by a freezing process. Remove the alcohol and I think most beers will seem flat and bland. What could be done with hops and carbonation..... and the malt profile to compensate for the missing alcohol? I really would love to have some 1/2-1% alcohol beer that I can sip on while going down the road instead of water or crappy convenience store coffee. Something I can grab out of the fridge and drink and be refreshed without that alcohol buzz. Kombucha is my current go to drink....... cheap to make and refreshing, but there's only so much of it you want to drink. I've experimented with various ways of cross breeding beer and kombucha. The acid profile of the booch has a great deal of effect on it's refreshing character.
What can be brought into beer to make extremely low alcohol beer satisfying???

Everybody seems obsessed with "high gravity". That's fine if you want to get drunk or seriously buzzed........ If you don't, if you just want satisfying refreshment.... it isn't. Any idiot can up the grain bill and brew a beer at extreme ABV.. that really doesn't take much skill.............. It takes someone with real skill to make a beer at just a couple points that is extremely satisfying. I've been watching the microbrew revolution steadily escalate the points in an "alcohol arms race"......It's as pointless as nuclear overkill!


......... Ideas anybody? I know this is completely "outside the box" thinking, in fact every time I've mentioned it, the silence has been deafening......Like farting in church!


H.W.

Great topic. I've been starting to mess around with recipes on Beersmith to see if I can hopefully come up with something tasty, satisfying, yet lower in alcohol. I'm in the same boat you are. I drink coffee, a little bit of tea, water and beer. I will have the occasional soda when at a movie theater, but for the most part, I don't like it. Mostly I drink water, but boy does it get boring.

 

[Falcon3]

In Boise, there's a brand new brewery named Woodland Empire. They have an English Mild called "In the Morning." It's a pretty traditional mild, but they add cold-steeped coffee to it. Goes really well together with neither taste outdoing the others. Clocks in at 3.2% but I'm sure you could get it down below 3% by subbing some MO out for a little more crystal while keeping the body flavorful. This beer is definitely my choice over a mimosa in the morning.

 

[Owly055]

Ever try making something like Kvass? Very easy to make, very low alcohol, and tasty. I'm sure you could modify a basic recipe to make it more beer-like.

Products like Kvass, Kefir, and Kombucha, and countless other fermented / soured foods and drinks appeal to me....... I make a LOT of kombucha. Kvass.........which I tend to confuse with Kumis........ The truth is however that Kavass, Kefir, and Kumis in their traditional forms are very closely related....... a culture involving yeasts and lactobacillis. I've made Kefir...both water and milk, and kombucha... and a number of other soured products. I prefer the flavor profile of the acetobacter fermented kombucha... It uses acetobacter, and a number of others, and some brett yeasts. I just bottled 2L of kombucha out of my 6 gallon fermenter this morning using an intensely malty ginger bottling syrup made from a fermented wort of dark DME boiled up with freshly ground ginger root, star anise, and a few cinnamon sticks that had USA-05 pitched into it and was fermented out completely. It makes a delightful malty gingery drink reminiscent of beer, but with ginger standing in for hops. The acetic acid, and several other acids give it a sharp but pleasant bite. I generally give it a 5 - 7 day secondary fermentation in the bottle to carbonate and for the flavors to blend and mellow. I frequently make a straight ginger bottling syrup. It contains 1C grated fresh ginger, 1C sugar, and 2C water, and may have star anise and cinnamon sticks..... or may not...... depending on my mood when I make it ;-)

I don't consider Kvass made with yeast only........no lacto culture, genuine. Water kefir would be a good starter for it..........

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Great topic. I've been starting to mess around with recipes on Beersmith to see if I can hopefully come up with something tasty, satisfying, yet lower in alcohol. I'm in the same boat you are. I drink coffee, a little bit of tea, water and beer. I will have the occasional soda when at a movie theater, but for the most part, I don't like it. Mostly I drink water, but boy does it get boring.

Not quite the same boat.......... I quit caffeine except for the small amount I get in kombucha (4 tea bags to the gallon)....... after 50 years of being a heavy coffee drinker! I'm excited about the work people have done in the low alcohol direction...... what little there is. I will be trying the "Rye-Wit" someone linked to. I will also be experimenting with cooking the alcohol off. I've already done the latter.............but we aren't supposed to talk about that here ;-)....... In my case it was the vapor in condensed form I wanted, not the beer I started with that was not fit to drink anymore..... Let's all pretend not to know what I'm talking about ;-)...........

H.W.

 

[TimmyWit]

You can get a lot of flavor in low abv beers by cask-conditioning. Find some homebrewing coworkers who would also like to swap all of their daily beverages out for beer. Then, take turns bringing casks to work and feed off of them as if it was your community water fountain. Not only is this option low in alcohol, the carbonation is low so you could avoid beer burps.

 

[Owly055]

You can get a lot of flavor in low abv beers by cask-conditioning. Find some homebrewing coworkers who would also like to swap all of their daily beverages out for beer. Then, take turns bringing casks to work and feed off of them as if it was your community water fountain. Not only is this option low in alcohol, the carbonation is low so you could avoid beer burps.

I once had a job..... back in the '70's........with coworkers. Many people I know are cowboys, but that's not quite the same thing ;-) Someday soon, I will have to try living a normal conventional life with a "job"....Just do I remember what it's like to have a steady pay check and what it's like to leave work behind when you go home!

Seriously, it's a great idea.......... A bourbon barrel would be perfect! for aging, and I could bottle and force carbonate.

Remember.... any idiot can add more fermentables to beer and produce really high gravity beer.......... It takes real skill to figure out how to make a really nice beer at .5 to 1.5% abv.

H.W.

 

[TimmyWit]

I would think a bourbon barrel might be a bit much for a low abv beer, no? The flavor might come across harsh especially with a small batch since you have a large surface area. I haven't tried any method of adding wood yet but from what I understand, 5 & 10 gallon barrels have a lot of surface area in contact with the beer so you'll really need to limit how long the beer is in there. A small amount of wood chips might be a better method for a low abv brew if you want the wood character to remain somewhat subtle I think.

I was thinking cask ales like what they serve in England. Those guys have been drinking throughout the day without getting (too) smashed for ages. They're pros at session beers. Going round the pub for a pint or 12 with your m8s is a big part of their culture. I haven't been there for 10 years but I remember some really interesting & tasty low abv beers being served from those casks.

 

[Slainte-brew]

My two citrusy hops are Cascade and Citra. Try dry hopping with those.

The way I see it you have two options, brew something low in abv or take the alcohol out. Now I like good 3% session beers, but I am just throwing stuff out there for seriously low abv. I think starting with a good session is the place to begin. I also think the gluten free forum might be a place to look. You might need to look into alternative fermentables besides grains. Treacle, sorghum, malto dextrin, etc. You obvisouly seem pretty comfortable with a lot of things, I am more of a cider guy which does not help the low abv problem.

I would also think that using a bunch of darker specialty malts to get flavor and body with out the fermentable sugars will give you flavor without a huge increase in abv. A higher percentage of your grain bill to be crystals, cara, etc. Maybe just steeping the grains or mashing on the higher side to get more unferementables. The big issue I see with having the abv sub 1% is that the OG is there just isnt a lot of sugar for the yeast, I would think you might have trouble with getting a good fermentation.

The other alternative then is to remove the alcohol, heating it up seems to be the way. I have no experience doing this so I am not even going to suggest it.

 

[Owly055]

I would think a bourbon barrel might be a bit much for a low abv beer, no? The flavor might come across harsh especially with a small batch since you have a large surface area. I haven't tried any method of adding wood yet but from what I understand, 5 & 10 gallon barrels have a lot of surface area in contact with the beer so you'll really need to limit how long the beer is in there. A small amount of wood chips might be a better method for a low abv brew if you want the wood character to remain somewhat subtle I think.

I was thinking cask ales like what they serve in England. Those guys have been drinking throughout the day without getting (too) smashed for ages. They're pros at session beers. Going round the pub for a pint or 12 with your m8s is a big part of their culture. I haven't been there for 10 years but I remember some really interesting & tasty low abv beers being served from those casks.

I've aged the "unmentionable fluid" with wood with good success. Obviously you don't carbonate "unmentionable", so the situation is somewhat different. My method involved warming it, relieving pressure, then cooling it, and relieving vacuum repeatedly. The idea was to drive the unmentionable in and out of the toasted wood, bringing the flavor with it. The result was a fairly rapid oaking........ and mapling of the unmentionable. The same process could be applied to beer...... except that you would want to carbonate AFTER the process.

H.W.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Figured I would give an update on the Rye-Wit Beer.

My son and I brewed a 2 gallon batch. At flameout we split the batch and added .2oz of Coriander and .1oz of lime peel to one gallon and kept the other gallon per the original recipe.

The beers came out around 2%

The mosaic hops give this a very citrusy flavor, lemony. Had some trouble with carbonating the beer but over all it is a very light refreshing low alcohol beer.

The coriander/lime batch definitely has some lime flavor. Both batches turned out great.

Great lawnmower beer.

Here is the link to the original 5 gallon recipe
http://beerandwinejournal.com/rye-wit-session-beer/

 

[Owly055]

I like the really pale color........... I'm wondering if using something other than Fuggles as your bittering hop might enhance the citrus character.... Amarillo, Citra, Calypso..... etc. I have both Mosaic and Calypso on hand at the moment, as well as Motueka, and a few others.

H.W.

Figured I would give an update on the Rye-Wit Beer.

My son and I brewed a 2 gallon batch. At flameout we split the batch and added .2oz of Coriander and .1oz of lime peel to one gallon and kept the other gallon per the original recipe.

The beers came out around 2%

The mosaic hops give this a very citrusy flavor, lemony. Had some trouble with carbonating the beer but over all it is a very light refreshing low alcohol beer.

The coriander/lime batch definitely has some lime flavor. Both batches turned out great.

Great lawnmower beer.

Here is the link to the original 5 gallon recipe
http://beerandwinejournal.com/rye-wit-session-beer/

 

[Owly055]

The technology that is used for drying milk and other products of that sort would be perfect for a no/alcohol beer. It amounts to spraying a fine mist of liquid into a heated air stream using either rotary atomizers or a high pressure nozzle. The liquid dries virtually instantly, and the powder is removed from the air stream using a cyclone (centrifugal). It's an interesting concept......... though of course not practical for us little guys. Imagine reducing your beer to a powder, and reconstituting it at whatever flavor strength you wanted. There already are a number of dried beer products, including one you can reconstitute for a cold beer on the trail.........Needless to say it is non-alcoholic, but nothing is keeping you fromk carrying a tiny phial of everclear........

A cyclone is nothing more than a cylindrical tank where air is introduced tangentially and rises to the top in a high velocity swirl, throwing the solids outward where they settle to the bottom. The air exits center top leaving particulate behind. It's a common technology you see on glass bead cabinets, tractor air cleaners (that clear bowl on the intake), in wood and metal shops for dust collectors, etc. I look forward to seeing someone's home made spray drier..........nobody's going to actually do it, but it's fun to contemplate ;-)........

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

I brewed the Rye Wit that was recommended as a low gravity beer, and my mash efficiency fell a tad short. Looks like is finishing out at about 2%........ which is OK by me. Used Mosaic hops...... What a nice hop! The first brew with Mosaic. I'll use them again.

This is a unique beer for me............. With 10 brews under my belt.... I'm still a new brewer...... at least this time around, this is the very first that even remotely followed someone's recipe. I didn't use the Fuggles, only Mosaic, and brewed for about 16 IBU instead of the 10 or so of the original recipe.

This seems to be a very light delicate flavored beer, one that would be good for experimenting with. I'll probably make a sour out of the next batch, as I got enough "makings" for 2 2.5 gallon batches. I'll go very light on the hops, and do a sour mash. I'll be crashing and bottling this sometime next week. Looking forward to trying this.

H.W.