Extract Twang after full boil and late addition DME

[albion85]

Sorry, I know you guys are probably rolling your eyes over yet another Extract twang related post. This is driving me nuts though, because whenever I research this I see many stating that it doesn't exist. Brulosopher even did an extract vs all grain test which showed many could not distinguish between the two. But I am getting something strong for sure. Let me explain.

My first few brews I did (probably about 5) were all dry malt extract brews, varying from mildly hopped, to high hopped. Every single one, whether it be a dark porter or a light golden ale had the same distinct smell and taste to it. Very hard to describe, but I would say that it has a cloying smell about it, very malty. The taste is a cloyingly sweet, syrupy after taste that drowns out anything else with the beer. I switched to all grain which has yielded mixed results, largely from my mash PH I believe which I am still working on. But the extract twang went away.

Now I decided to return to extract to give it another go since I've learnt a lot about brewing and improved my process considerably. I brewed an ordinary bitter, that was hopped quite a fair bit for the OG. I did a full boil, and only added the DME in the last 20 mins. I actually subbed 20% of the DME this time with corn sugar to try and dry out the beer a bit more. The beer ended up attenuating very well. I racked to some polypins to try a real ale style dispense. Tried some, and while its not entirely unpleasant, that smell and taste is back! Perhaps a little less so than before buts its very much there and overwhelming everything else. I have tried DME from both briess and muntons from different sources that i know have a high turn around. I'm pretty stumped how people are brewing award winning extract beers without this taste to them. I just can't seem to get it right!

Here the recipe and process for the ordinary bitter. Unfortunately I cant find my old recipes from before but i know they ranged from dark to light and they all had the smell and taste.


DME Golden Light 3.5 pounds (late addition)
1 pound corn sugar
3 oz biscuit (steeped)
3 oz caramel 120L (steeped)
0.6 oz fuggles boiled for 60 mins
0.6 oz fuggles boiled for 45 mins
West Yorkshire yeast fermented at 63F

Beersmith calculated with my equipment and late addition my hop utilization would be 32IBUs

Original Gravity was 1.036
Final Gravity was 1.006

Primed to 1.5 carb unit for a real ale style.

This was the first time i've used corn sugar in the boil. I have also tried Nottingham dry yeast and S-04.

I'm pretty stumped right now as I feel liked I've implemented all the recommendations for getting rid of the extract twang but it is still there kinda ruining my beers!

 

[eadavis80]

What are your fermentation temps like?

 

[albion85]

low 60's

 

[Patrick87]

I've been escaping the extract flavor by adding most all the DME at flame-out. I usually just add 1-2lbs of DME at the beginning of the boil (typically 30 minutes for me, and I typically use 5-7.5lbs DME per recipe) then at the end, cut the heat, stir in the remaining DME, let sit for one or two minutes (if I'm not doing a hop stand/IPA) then chill as normal. At flame-out, the wort is still at pasteurization temps, so no worries about infection from "unboiled" DME.

 

[Yooper]

Sugar is a perfectly fine ingredient- but a pound in a 1.036 OG batch is a lot!

You used 3.5 pounds of extract, and 1 pound of sugar. That could be the source of some of the flavor you're perceiving as extract twang.

Also, did you add the extract at flame out? "Late addition" sometimes is in the boil, or somethings at the end (my preference).

 

[albion85]

I only put the sugar in 1 of the brews. The others didn't have it and still had the sweet flavor. The extract goes in at the last 20 mins of the boil. Didn't realize you could add it at flame out.

 

[flars]

I just had a bottle of my Dead Ringer IPA. Extract with steeping grains. Half the extract added in the last 15 minutes of the boil. I refrigerated some of the bottles for a birthday party. Had been bottle conditioning for two weeks. Normally I wouldn't sample this beer until at least four weeks of conditioning.

Carbonation was good. Head retention fair. Good aroma bittering was noticeably less. Left a sweet and syrupy feel on the throat. Brewed this one many times. I can only attribute this to the beer not conditioning long enough. Conditioning time was the only variable.

Do you keg or bottle condition?

 

[albion85]

I just had a bottle of my Dead Ringer IPA. Extract with steeping grains. Half the extract added in the last 15 minutes of the boil. I refrigerated some of the bottles for a birthday party. Had been bottle conditioning for two weeks. Normally I wouldn't sample this beer until at least four weeks of conditioning.

Carbonation was good. Head retention fair. Good aroma bittering was noticeably less. Left a sweet and syrupy feel on the throat. Brewed this one many times. I can only attribute this to the beer not conditioning long enough. Conditioning time was the only variable.

Do you keg or bottle condition?

I usually bottle condition. I found some of my first extract brews which have been in the bottle for a year now and the sweet syrup taste is as prominent as it was after 3 weeks. My current batch is in a polypin and has the smell and taste also.

 

[flars]

How long do you leave the beer in the primary?
Describe the water you use for brewing.

 

[albion85]

How long do you leave the beer in the primary?
Describe the water you use for brewing.

I've tried anywhere from 1 week in the primary to 3 weeks. I've tried tap water but with the extract I mostly use distilled bottled water from wallmart

 

[Northbank]

I thought distilled water was a bit of a no-no for brewing -- lack of minerals ..

 

[flars]

Distilled water and RO water may be best for extract brewing. The extract contains the mineral balance for the yeast. Local well water may not be as well balanced with minerals.

 

[dmtaylor]

The extract twang is a very real thing. You're not imagining it. That being said, I think the effects can be minimized, and here's how.

 

[Dcmpres]

I have used my local water, bottled spring water, RO water and still get that twang. I find that if I use DME over LME, the flavor is minimized. Also bulk aging also appears to diminish the flavor over a month to two. Most people that I serve my beers to are unable to recognize taste. This was the main reason why I changed to all grain.

 

[Anyhowe]

Send me a bottle. I just don't get what you are tasting. Pm me for the addy.

 

[bushizell]

When one has had bad experiences with extract twang, do you recall the liquid itself being off colored aka dark even tho it was briess golden etc?

 

[urg8rb8]

I have used my local water, bottled spring water, RO water and still get that twang. I find that if I use DME over LME, the flavor is minimized. Also bulk aging also appears to diminish the flavor over a month to two. Most people that I serve my beers to are unable to recognize taste. This was the main reason why I changed to all grain.

All grain is the best way to go to get rid of that extract twang.

 

[dmtaylor]

When one has had bad experiences with extract twang, do you recall the liquid itself being off colored aka dark even tho it was briess golden etc?

It goes more the other way. If the extract looks normal, you might still get the twang. If it looks way too dark, you will almost definitely get the twang.