Extract only Hefe, 30 min boil: need science lesson

[saucebag]

If I wanted to make a quick, easy Hefe with just breisse wheat DME and 1 hop variety, it seems you need to boil the hops for 60. Is there a way to do a 30 or 20 minute boil, using less hops or something, since the DME doesnt really need to be boiled so long, to get a similar flavor. I'm thinking time savings, vs. Boiling hops and water for 60 and adding in the DME toward the end. (No, I'm not that busy that I cant boil for 60, just wondering and learning)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Is there a way to do a 30 or 20 minute boil ...

Yes.

IIRC (and assuming a full volume boil), to go from a 60 min boil 30 min boil, it's roughly 25% more hops. You can use recipe software to verify / fine-tune the amount.

You may want adjust your starting water volume to account for less boil-off.

---

And yes, one could shorten the boil to zero (BBR Hop Sampler) or do everything as a "hop steep" after a short boil, but

1. the recipe adjustment is no longer a simple adjustment.
2. we boil to remove things as well as add things.

---

edits: added assumption of a full volume boil.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I started making simple extract bitters and grisettes with a 30m boil. Based on posts by @BrewnWKopperKat and @D.B.Moody, I do not adjust my hop amounts. I add half my extract as a late addition.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/advanced-extract-brewing.426031/post-9259626

 

[dmtaylor]

Yes.

IIRC (and assuming a full volume boil), to go from a 60 min boil 30 min boil, it's roughly 25% more hops. You can use recipe software to verify / fine-tune the amount.

You may want adjust your starting water volume to account for less boil-off.

---

And yes, one could shorten the boil to zero (BBR Hop Sampler) or do everything as a "hop steep" after a short boil, but

1. the recipe adjustment is no longer a simple adjustment.
2. we boil to remove things as well as add things.

---

edits: added assumption of a full volume boil.

The 25% extra hops is actually more like 30%. But yeah, otherwise I agree with everything above. Boil less time, save some time. The long boil is not needed for extract brews.

 

[saucebag]

Thank you! This is amazing, I would have added less hops.. very interesting to add more. Thanks again

 

[Kickass]

I would have added less hops

The reason you’d add more is because the longer you boil hops, the more bitterness you get. Thus, shorter boil means less bitterness which can be adjusted by using more hops.

You’ll probably notice more volume (less wort will have boiled off) at the end of a 30 minute boil vs 60. So, if you’re inclined, be sure to adjust accordingly.

 

[Rish]

You could also do a hop tea so you don't have to boil the full volume. While the tea is boiling bring a couple of gallons of concentrated wort up to 180*F to pasteurize, add the tea, top of with cold water, pitch. Makes for a short "brew" day!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

You could also do a hop tea so you don't have to boil the full volume.

Can you outline the steps (including water volumes and times) for this process?

Example questions to answer: Can I use the same amount of hops (or does it need to be adjusted)? How much water for each step (making the tea, making the wort)? How much time for each step? I did see some of the information in the earlier description.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

( ... just wondering and learning ...)

With a 15 min boil, 15 Minute Cascade Pale Ale (2010) is the probably the oldest example of this process. IIRC, hop utilization with 15 min boils is discussed in either "I Brewed a Favorite Recipe (link)" or the 2021 content in "Advanced Extract Brewing (link)".

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Along the theme of this thread, I recently made some 1 gallon batches of beer using DME and Belgian yeast (so maybe something like a Belgian Single or Blond). I added just enough Pahto hops at 10 minutes to give a calculated 30 IBUs (0.21 oz) and the beer came out a bit too bitter. I have brewed a number of single hop batches with just a hop steep that have a reasonable level of bitterness.

Also, when I adjusted my "house" American IPA recipe from a 60 minute boil to a 30 minute boil, I only needed to add 0.1 or 0.2 oz of hops more to hit the same calculated IBUs and the resulting beer was plenty bitter (and I tend to like reasonably bitter beers).

Probably one of the more startling things I have learned over the past few years is just how much bitterness you get from hops with very short or even zero boil.

I still have some questions about hop flavors. Is there a difference in hop flavors from 60, to 30, to 10? Probably, but most of my batches end up with a hop addition at 10 minutes or less anyway for a little hop character.

 

[IslandLizard]

There's no need for a full boil, or even boil the DME.
Here's what I would do:

1. Boil 1/4 of your batch's volume of water with the hops to get the IBUs.
   • If wanted or needed, boil up to 1/2 of your batch's volume.
2. At the end of the boil, flameout, add all the DME, stir until dissolved.
3. Add any steeping hops too.
4. Make sure the wort has been at or above 150F for 20' to pasteurize.
   • Note: DME should be pretty sterile already.
5. Chill, and top up with cold water to your batch's volume.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

[...] how much bitterness you get from hops with very short or even zero boil

In support of pellet hops "getting to work quickly", Basic Brewing Radio Nov 1, 2018 (and related set of slide) talks about IBUs for short boils and for hop stands.

Is there a difference in hop flavors from 60, to 30, to 10?

Maybe; we boil wort and hops to remove things. A couple of years ago, I moved my favorite DME-based recipes from 60 (or 45) min to 30 min without problems. I had a couple of 'meh' batches when trying to shorten the boil from 30 min to 15 min - so I stopped shortening existing recipes.

Almost all of my

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There's no need for a full boil, or even boil the DME.

We boil to add things, we boil to remove things.

Here's a 'side measurement' that one can do while trying out some new hops using BBR's hop sampler.

1. heat the water to 140F, add just the DME (not the hops)
2. heat the wort to around 180F; observe the wort.
3. boil the wort for five minutes; observe

Try this with Briess DME and Muntons DME.

It's been a couple of years since I've done this with Muntons DME, but I doubt the result has changed.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Here's another 'side measurement', this time on DME color.

Recipe is 15 min Cascade Pale Ale.

• extend the boil time to 45 minutes.
• collect a wort sample at the start of the boil.
• boil for 30 minutes.
• collect a wort sample.
• finish the recipe.

For the wort samples, adjust the water volumes so that SG is the same. Wait a couple of hours for trub to fall out of suspension. Compare the color in the glass.

This (from March 2021) may also be of interest. : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-do-i-get-lighter-color-with-ipa.690963/.

 

[Rish]

Can you outline the steps (including water volumes and times) for this process?

Example questions to answer: Can I use the same amount of hops (or does it need to be adjusted)? How much water for each step (making the tea, making the wort)? How much time for each step? I did see some of the information in the earlier description.

I use 1/2 gallon of water to boil the hops. I use the same amount of hops but only do 30 minutes for the bittering, regular schedule for flavor and aroma additions. I use hops bags.
I use 2 gallons of room temperature water to make the dme slurry.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Initially, I answered with a common, single, simple adjustment to the 60 min full volume boil process. The topic has expanded to include process alternatives, so I'll make a suggestion of what I might do if I were 'stove top' brewing 5 gal batches.

just wondering and learning

Take a look at @D.B.Moody 's process over in "I Brewed a Favorite Recipe Today" (link to one example). It is a very nice refinement of the "stove top" brewing process in How To Brew, 4e (although @D.B.Moody 's process may have existed before 2017). Using some of the water to make a slurry with DME is a solid technique for preventing the DME from 1) clumping when pouring over steam or 2) stratifying at the bottom of the kettle.

For my full volume DME batches, I add the DME to the boil kettle around 140F (or 160F-ish if there are steeping grains). No need to worry about clumping or scorching (and I can repeat the 'experiment' I mentioned in #13 ).

 

[lumbergh]

I do 1 or 2 extract batches a year and use the 15 minute pale ale method.

 

[ncbrewer]

Rish and IslandLizard: I've never tried the "hop tea" method because my understanding is that it can be a time saver, but has some issues:

• I have read that boiling hops in plain water gives a harsh bitterness.
• It seems there would be no coagulation of proteins, so no hot break
• How to calculate/estimate bitterness when boiling hops in water only - Use Tinseth formula with SG set to 1.000?

Are my concerns valid, or does the hop tea method produce quality beer?

 

[beersk]

All of the above sounds overly complicated, more than it needs to be. Since we're talking about hefeweizen with DME, here's what I do:

5 gallons of RO water, heat to 120F, add 6lbs of Briess Wheat DME (make sure to turn the heat off while stirring in DME), bring to 170F, add about 1.5oz of 4-5% AA German hops, add chiller. Heat all this to 200F for about 10 minutes, then chill and pitch 1 smack pack of Wyeast 3068. Ferment at about 66-68F raising to about 72F after 3 or so days. OG will be about 1.050.
This turns out a wonderfully clove-y and banana-y hefeweizen, just like the German ones. It's essentially no boil and the brew session is less than 2 hours. Boom!