Extra time in Primary?

[ringo8553]

Are there any ales that will not benefit or degrade if they are left in the primary too long?

 

[slomo]

If a batch is left in the primary for too long then it has a better chance of getting an infection. If you are looking for a style of beer that doesn't need a long primary period then you would be looking for something like a hefeweizen.

 

[GrogNerd]

can't say I agree with extended time in primary increasing the chance of infection

in a commercial brewery there's a chance of autolysis if it sat on the yeast cake too long, but at the homebrew scale, "too long" might be measured in months

there might be a risk of oxygen leaching thru a plastic fermenter if left for extended periods. and, for the truly paranoid, a risk of leaching skeery chemicals FROM the plastic.

 

[IL1kebeer]

can't say I agree with extended time in primary increasing the chance of infection

I agree that an extended primary doesn't increase the chance of infection; however, if the beer is already contaminated then a longer than necessary primary will allow the contamination to turn into an infection. If that same contaminated beer was only in the primary for two weeks and then kegged then that contamination would never have a chance to turn into an infection.

By contamination I mean an exposure to Brett, lacto, pedio, acetobacter, etc etc.

By infection I mean that that contamination of said bacteria has grown to the point that it starts to ferment the beer further. And a longer primary will increase the chance of this.

Obviously if careful sanitization is practiced then this shouldn't be a concern when conducting long primary.

 

[JLem]

Are there any ales that will not benefit or degrade if they are left in the primary too long?

What is your definition of "too long"? Most beers are fine left in primary for 3-4 weeks and probably up to 6 weeks. Beyond that, I would rack the beer into a secondary if you can't get it bottled/kegged.

 

[Demus]

I'd also add that a secondary has more chance of causing problems than a long primary. Any time you transfer you could make sanitation errors and or oxidize your beer. Simply not doing a secondary eliminates those risks for that step. Also, many brewers transfer at the wrong time and disrupt the ferment leading to under attenuation and off flavors that could have been absorbed if left on the yeast. IMHO secondary should be left to the experienced brewer who's using it for a specific reason. Newer brewers can really do more harm than good with secondaries...

 

[enkamania]

Wheat beers are generally better younger. I just finished a beer I had in the fermenter for about a year, it was much better than it was at 6 weeks.

 

[dgr]

Any ale i can see through with a 5 minute, 1 minute, flame out, hop stand or dry hop does not benefit from leaving it in the primary past it being done. I paid for those hop aromas, i would like to enjoy them.

 

[Demus]

Any ale i can see through with a 5 minute, 1 minute, flame out, hop stand or dry hop does not benefit from leaving it in the primary past it being done. I paid for those hop aromas, i would like to enjoy them.

It's the "being done" part that many brewers confuse. Even a hoppy, good young style needs a little time to round out and an extra week on the yeast cake isn't going to be enough to hurt your hop characteristics. It is however enough time for the yeast to re absorb some off flavor compounds as it settles into dormancy. It's a great way to avoid that "green" young beer taste. If you like your beer young an extra week or ten days in primary is a great way to go...

 

[IL1kebeer]

It's the "being done" part that many brewers confuse. Even a hoppy, good young style needs a little time to round out and an extra week on the yeast cake isn't going to be enough to hurt your hop characteristics. It is however enough time for the yeast to re absorb some off flavor compounds as it settles into dormancy. It's a great way to avoid that "green" young beer taste. If you like your beer young an extra week or ten days in primary is a great way to go...

I disagree. 7-10 day primary and on to the keg for most ales. If you pitched the right amount of yeast with nutrient, fermented at the correct temperature, and properly aerated/oxygenated then most normal gravity ales will be done fermenting in 5-7 days. Give them 2 more days to clean up at a higher temperature and you are good to go. Complex beers and higher gravity beers will likely need more time than this. Pale ales and most normal strength ales will be fine in as short as a week if you have your fermentation dialed in properly.

Sorry to say but the only flavors in IPAs and most pale ales are base malt, loads of hops, and a bit of crystal. Not much to round out there. You are certainly free to keep them in primary longer, as long as sanitization is on point then it won't hurt anything. To each his own.

 

[unionrdr]

I give the beer whatever time it needs to reach FG & settle out clear or slightly misty in primary. The dry hop if I'm going to,or prime & bottle at that point. Even my dark Whiskely Ale gets the same treatment,but about 10 weeks in the bottle to properly condition from the oaking with bourbon soaked medium toast French oak. I typically dry hop for 1 week...all in primary.

 

[freisste]

I disagree. 7-10 day primary and on to the keg for most ales. If you pitched the right amount of yeast with nutrient, fermented at the correct temperature, and properly aerated/oxygenated then most normal gravity ales will be done fermenting in 5-7 days. Give them 2 more days to clean up at a higher temperature and you are good to go....

I agree (with you, that is to say I disagree with Demus).

If there were no process-related off flavors, there is nothing to condition out. If the beer is never green, you don't need time to "de-green."

There are plenty of three week (and some less than three week) grain-to-glass recipes. Obviously to do them in that time period they can't be green.

 

[unionrdr]

"Green" isn't an off flavor. It's a descriptor of beer in it's immature stage. The point where the malt & hop flavors do not taste or smell like they will when the beer is ready to drink. Hope that makes some sense...some things can be hard to describe.

 

[IL1kebeer]

"Green" isn't an off flavor. It's a descriptor of beer in it's immature stage. The point where the malt & hop flavors do not taste or smell like they will when the beer is ready to drink. Hope that makes some sense...some things can be hard to describe.

I think the green flavor that is commonly described (correctly or incorrectly) is acetaldehyde since it gives a green apple flavor. I think this is where the confusion comes from.

But I agree, green = young. And IMHO and in my experience, most normal strength ales that are fermented properly are not still green after 7-10 days in the fermenter. The key is proper fermentation. Recipe plays a role too

Edit- Grammar

 

[freisste]

I consider "green" to mean flavors that will condition out have not yet conditioned out AND flavors need more time to meld.

Simple beers (wheats and IPAs, for example) don't have multiple strong flavors that need to meld, so the only conditioning that is required would be for off flavors to fade. If there are no off flavors (because fermentation was well-controlled), there is no green flavor and no need for conditioning.

I may be using the word "green" differently than some. The above is my definition. If I am using it differently from most or if I am incorrect, let me know and I will adjust my vocabulary. The last thing we need is nomenclature-based misunderstandings clouding our discussions.

 

[unionrdr]

"Green" simply equals immature. It's not a description of off flavors being present or not. The malts & hops don't yet taste the way we know they should at that point. Carbonation lifts the up where we better notice them. Conditioning helps bring them to their final form.

 

[Demus]

The last thing we need is nomenclature-based misunderstandings clouding our discussions.

Welcome to home brew talk!!! ;-)

 

[Demus]

I disagree. 7-10 day primary and on to the keg for most ales. If you pitched the right amount of yeast with nutrient, fermented at the correct temperature, and properly aerated/oxygenated then most normal gravity ales will be done fermenting in 5-7 days. Give them 2 more days to clean up at a higher temperature and you are good to go. Complex beers and higher gravity beers will likely need more time than this. Pale ales and most normal strength ales will be fine in as short as a week if you have your fermentation dialed in properly. Sorry to say but the only flavors in IPAs and most pale ales are base malt, loads of hops, and a bit of crystal. Not much to round out there. You are certainly free to keep them in primary longer, as long as sanitization is on point then it won't hurt anything. To each his own.

This may be true for you. I was replying to the OP who posted on the BEGINNERS forum. I doubt he has his process as dialed in as you have. I've tasted many new brewers' beers and they have a common "green" flavor I equate to rushing things. When they get on here and we tell them 7-10 days and then bottle, that's what they do regardless of their temperature control, pitch rate or aeration level. I was just pointing out that some extra time on the yeast can help with some flaws IF THEY ARE PRESENT. Do you disagree with that?

 

[IL1kebeer]

When they get on here and we tell them 7-10 days and then bottle, that's what they do regardless of their temperature control, pitch rate or aeration level.

That's why I made sure to tell him about pitch rates, temperature control, and aeration/oxygenation. See below.

If you pitched the right amount of yeast with nutrient, fermented at the correct temperature, and properly aerated/oxygenated then most normal gravity ales will be done fermenting in 5-7 days. Give them 2 more days to clean up at a higher temperature and you are good to go.

My goal was to teach him that most properly fermented normal gravity ales do not need extra time in the primary. That is what this thread is about: "Extra time in the Primary?". I outlined 4 steps that he could do to ensure that his fermentation was healthy, thus avoiding extra time in the primary:

1. Pitch the right amount of yeast
2. Use yeast nutrient
3. Ferment at the correct temperature
4. Properly aerate/oxygenate

If he chooses not to follow these steps and tries to ferment his beer in 7-10 days then that's his own wrong doing. But I do not agree with giving advice that says: If you have off flavors due to poor fermentation, then a longer primary will take care of that. I would much rather teach him how to avoid those off flavors so that he is not forced to rely on "Extra time in the Primary". Let's face it, if someone is forced to keep their pale ale in the primary for 3-4 weeks to have it taste normal then there is room to improve. (I know the OP didn't say this specifically but I am using it as an example)

My intentions were not to start an argument with you, and I apologize if I came off like that. My intentions were to teach the OP that not all ales need to stay in the primary for an extended period and to outline the steps to perform a faster ferment while avoiding off flavors.

 

[Demus]

Agreed. No worries...