Experiment: Added Orval dregs to a plain Belgium Dark Ale.

[zackmon21]

I had a 3 gallon batches going of belgian dark ale. I used Abyyee II yeast which didn't seem to give a flavor profile. I tasted it and it did not have anything special. Feel it would have been a batch I would struggle to finish.

I pitched Orval dregs that I used a starter for. It was definitely eating that sugar. Is there anything to expect with the dregs. I have read orval ony leaves it for a few weeks.

 

[yard_bird]

I made a Belgian tripel with wyeast 3787 and co-pitched some 18mo the old Orval dregs. Mashed 152F, with 15% sugar.

After a month it went from 1.084-1.006. Three months later it dropped to 1.003. Two months later, 1.002 so I bottled.

Got some classic brett flavors off the Orval, not spicy but more fruit/funk.

 

[suprchunk]

I enjoy the dryness that Orval has to it, with just a slight bit of tartness in the finish. Slight.

It is really one of the greatest beers for a good reason, but I wish America would stop charging 6 bucks a bottle. I'm almost done with everything I brought back from Europe, and I won't pay that much for it, anymore.

 

[corkybstewart]

I used to make a starter with Orval dregs and use it to finish a variety of beers, including a crabapple blonde that won a best of show in a fairly large competition. I would brew a fairly generic Belgian blonde ale, around 7% ABV, and when it was 75% attenuated I added the Orval starter. For my fruit beers I would wait until the blonde was finished, rack onto the fruit in a separate fermenter, and add the starter.
This has inspired me to do another brett beer this fall when I get back to brewing.

 

[zackmon21]

Most good farmhouse and belgian style beers domestic are pricey. Try to brew belgian. Saison, and that funk.

 

[suprchunk]

I hear you on the price, but good luck in getting the same profile by cheaping out. Buying wood, barrels, extra tanks, not to mention the exorbitant amount of time involved, and the price is negligible at best. Making good sour beers takes time (unless you are trying for that puke-taste that kettle sours have) and money (though most of the money is tied up in time).

But we were talking Orval, not sours, I thought. This is, out of the words you just laid out, only one of those - Belgian. And you'd still need the yeast they use before they add the bottling yeast. I've heard varying degrees of success in isolating them.

But you are close to one of the best "farmhouse" style brewers in the new world - de Garde - I'd hardly call them pricey. I mean, they've gone up in pricing, but I can't say they are out of line. And I know I cannot make a beer anywhere near their fruited beers for even close to what they spend. Fruit is very expensive when it comes to brewing. At least in quantities we use, or should use.

 

[sweetcell]

I have read orval ony leaves it for a few weeks.

yes, and fresh Orval doesn't have any noticeable brett characteristics. it takes several months for the brett to start expressing itself, with its impact increasing over time. doing a multi-year vertical of Orval is eye-opening... hard to believe the fresh hop-bomb will turn into a funkfest.

 

[suprchunk]

To me: Fresh Orval has that crispness to it that I associate with Brett in clean beers, an almost dry, brut-type of finish. I may be associating something else that is making that and falsely equating it, but it is unique to Orval, for me. Older Orval just gets more dry to me. Like all clean Brett beers do in my opinion. There isn't anything funking it up, it's just Brett, and a clean fermenting sacch. Though the Brett could play with the phenols from the sacch that was used to produce some funk - the lack of phenols prevent this, in my opinion. Mostly, in Orval - to me, it translates to dry and less hops the longer it sits. The sacch they use is very clean I believe, which limits the phenolic production and thus the interaction between them and the Brett.

I have some 20 year old Orval that tastes pretty close to 1 year old, just super-dry, no hops, and no funk. When I'd drive to Orval and pick up my share, and the Petit available only there, it would be similar, just a bit hoppier, slightly sweeter, and no funk. I'd have more, but America thinks the beer should cost 6 bucks a bottle! When I was buying it at soda prices it was more doable.

I wish I would get this funk people keep referencing in Orval, but I have yet to find it. Tart, dry, crisp - yes. Maybe I just don't notice it? But I really love sour and funky beers, brew them all the time, and drink and visit as many producers of it as I can. I seek them out to judge in comps, so I think I know them well enough.

I've also heard that Orval purposely puts a different strain in at bottling to thwart would be yeast ranching...but that is based on hearsay and conjecture. I cannot confirm this. It is just from the rumors people keep stirring. And a different strain of Brett at that!

MTF has a very in depth analysis on Orval...but Orval is a super-clean beer before any Brett, as I understand it.

But I'm no biologist, so I could be just imagining what I think.