Experience with Honey

[EpicCider]

I wanted to ask the forum if they had a similar experience using honey.

I was using Wyeast 3056, Whole foods 365 Organic Apple Juice, and I added 131g of clover honey (1 gallon batch).

I noticed two things I wanted to confirm.

1. The honey batch tasted absolutely terrible when young. I had other batches going side by side with the honey and 2-3 weeks in, I hated it. The batch aged another month and it was arguably the best of all of the batches.

2. I got an enhanced clarity after it was about 2 months old. Again, I had side by side batches (Molasses, Light by Sugar, No Sugar added) and the honey had by far the best clarity. I'm sure this has something to do with the honey itself causing precipitation, but I wanted to see everyone else's experience.

 

[prohl84]

1) From my experience honey will have a lot of fusels and sulfurs (several sulfur compounds if my nose isn't lying) early on in fermentation that get metabolized by the yeast after the bulk of fermentation is complete. It does smell and taste horrible.

2) I noticed honey brews are super clear also- I am a beer guy no cider (yet)- I have no idea why this is either.

 

[jmartie13]

This is funny, I have almost an identical batch brewing. One gallon of organic apple juice and wildflower honey I had laying around. It just finished fermenting and I took a sample an hour ago, tastes pretty bad, had a perfume floral character that was over bearing. I've brewed several larger batches of cider without any of these off flavors after primary. It's encouraging to hear that it developed into a great cider after some time. I know I've heard from several people that brew mead that the longer you let them sit the better.

 

[EpicCider]

This is funny, I have almost an identical batch brewing. One gallon of organic apple juice and wildflower honey I had laying around. It just finished fermenting and I took a sample an hour ago, tastes pretty bad, had a perfume floral character that was over bearing. I've brewed several larger batches of cider without any of these off flavors after primary. It's encouraging to hear that it developed into a great cider after some time. I know I've heard from several people that brew mead that the longer you let them sit the better.

I had 5-one gallon bathes going at once and it was the only cider that tasted terrible about 2 weeks in, but as I said, it seems to be the winner now.

 

[blakelyc]

I have had similar experiences. Early honey ferments are generally not very tasty, but I have noticed on my meads that the "honeyness" increases over time as well. For beers and ciders with honey, I have had the best luck with orange blossom honey... Seems to give me the best honey character. Every time I use wildflower honey it turns out floral, almost soapy.

As for the clarity, I wonder if it has to do with the waxes in the honey dropping out and taking other stuff with it?

 

[EpicCider]

I have had similar experiences. Early honey ferments are generally not very tasty, but I have noticed on my meads that the "honeyness" increases over time as well. For beers and ciders with honey, I have had the best luck with orange blossom honey... Seems to give me the best honey character. Every time I use wildflower honey it turns out floral, almost soapy.

As for the clarity, I wonder if it has to do with the waxes in the honey dropping out and taking other stuff with it?

I assume it has something to do with viscosity or just wax in the honey. Regardless I love the clarity it adds.

 

[prohl84]

Every time I use wildflower honey it turns out floral, almost soapy.

That sucks- the wildflower honey at my LHBS is floral but not soapy.

As for the clarity, I wonder if it has to do with the waxes in the honey dropping out and taking other stuff with it?

That's good- I like that. IIRC wax is actually made from honey ~7 lb. honey for the bees to make 1 lb. of wax of course the bees are also meanwhile eating it so...


On another note- I find buckwheat is good in small amounts and should be blended with other honeys/ fermentables. It's malty or molasses-y in small quantities too much and it's straight barnyard.

 

[blakelyc]

That sucks- the wildflower honey at my LHBS is floral but not soapy.


That's good- I like that. IIRC wax is actually made from honey ~7 lb. honey for the bees to make 1 lb. of wax of course the bees are also meanwhile eating it so...


On another note- I find buckwheat is good in small amounts and should be blended with other honeys/ fermentables. It's malty or molasses-y in small quantities too much and it's straight barnyard.

I have been buying from local apiaries, and I think the wildflower I have been getting is largely lavender... That always reminds me of soap. I totally agree about the buckwheat. I did a 100% buckwheat mead that was barnyard funky in a French Pinot noir kind of way. I ended up blending it with some lighter, sweeter mead and it provides a great honey bass note and rounds the whole thing out.

I have a saison recipe with honey... Maybe I'll make that 1/4 buckwheat.

 

[EpicCider]

So is clover honey the bane of hard cider making? I personally had great experience with it. I know it's the cheapest honey, but it seems pretty solid taste wise to me.

 

[tomb1]

Same here. Mine took 6 months and went from horrible to great!

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[WVMJ]

Could it be that you guys are not adding any nutrients, since you are boosting the sugar levels with the honey a little Fermaid will help the yeast cope with the added honey stress, it shouldnt stink or taste bad while its fermenting. As for clearing, its not the wax, that stuff floats, its the proteins acting as fining agent sticking to everything and precipitating it out. Our cysers this year were ok as soon as they got clear, but now 5 months later so much better and smoother. WVMJ

 

[blakelyc]

Could it be that you guys are not adding any nutrients, since you are boosting the sugar levels with the honey a little Fermaid will help the yeast cope with the added honey stress, it shouldnt stink or taste bad while its fermenting. As for clearing, its not the wax, that stuff floats, its the proteins acting as fining agent sticking to everything and precipitating it out. Our cysers this year were ok as soon as they got clear, but now 5 months later so much better and smoother. WVMJ

I always roll with yeast nutrient (servomyces is my drug of choice), but I'll try fermaid next time I do something with appreciable honey. Maybe that's the trick

Makes sense about the waxes... Never crossed my mind that they might float. Is honey really a significant source of protein?

 

[dallas996]

My standard recipe base is 5-6 gallons of juice and 3 lbs of honey. I always pitch enzyme a day before (now) and I always add nutrient. It has always smelled great while doing its thing. Mine is almost always drinkable right away though...maybe a tad green, but I don't usually let it go all of the way either. It also does come out really clear if you let it sit long enough; I never thought to attribute that to the honey....hmmm....

 

[WVMJ]

If you have good honey you got pollen in there right? Less so if you got ultrafiltered stuff. So how much protein does it take to make a haze? A hamburgers worth? A veinna sausages worth? I dont do much grape wine stuff but even some of them can produce a protein haze, sometimes its clear when its bottled, they cool it down and the proteins precipitate out and they have a haze in what was a clear wine. Its also a balance between tannins and protiens, not a big science guy on this but there has to be enough of each so they pull each other out or something like that. I have sparkaloid, bentonite or superkleer on hand in case I decide I am not going to be one of those patient types who can let it clear on its own WVMJ