Erlenmeyer Flask shattered in cold water...what went wrong???

[supercarbuilder]

Some background, I've been making starters for years, 2000ml and 5000ml flasks. I boil on the stove, then set it in the sink (with the drain stopper in) and run cold water. Then I add the ice as the sink fills to make sure I don't overfill past the liquid like in the flask.

Then today I did a 5000ml for an Oktoberfest for next fall and when I went to pick up the flask the top just above the liquid line came off in my hand with no effort. Huh...so I tried to lift the whole thing from the bottom trying to save my brew day and it fell apart like sand.

The only thing I can think of that I may have done differently is I ran the sink water first and had ice in it basin, so I went from the stove top directly to the ice bath with out that minute or two to run the water on the flask before the ice goes in. Keep in mind that I didn't have any idea that anything was wrong until the temp was already down to 75.

I think I'll get some input before I buy/break another one. I'm just too lazy to boil in a kettle etc. Here are some pictures of the flask after I drained the water (and starter wort ) from the sink...

 

[Cbaddad]

I believe it was too extreme of a temperature change. Like you, I usually let cool slightly on the counter, then under tap water. Then I add the ice. You went from fire to ice and the thing couldn't handle it.

 

[Cyclman]

Ouch, those are expensive. Enough of a temp differential they can break...I let mine cool first, then cool with water, than ice to be safe.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Does it say Pyrex on it? If not, "there's your problem".

When you cool a starter, start with as-hot-as-it-will-give tap water. Ease her slowly towards the middle, eventually going to the cold side.

MC

 

[passedpawn]

Does it say Pyrex on it? If not, "there's your problem".

When you cool a starter, start with as-hot-as-it-will-give tape water. Ease her slowly towards the middle, eventually going to the cold side.

MC

Pyrex isn't necessarily borosilicate any more. Corning sold the brand, and the brand now means nothing. The company that bought the brand does NOT make them from borosilicate.

 

[supercarbuilder]

Is there a "life span" to these things? I've made probably close to 100 starters with this thing. All though I assume I was just getting too efficient and too fast...yup that's how I'll explain the new one to my wife...

 

[passedpawn]

I've got 2 of them. The larger one (4L) I've used a lot. I use it right on the stove. I do let it sit for about 5 minutes before I run cold water / ice around it. Knock I wood I guess.

 

[user 4295]

Even borosilicate glass will break after repeated heat/cool cycles. Just be happy it didn't happen to you while it was boiling away on the stove! Ask me how I know! I only use my flasks now to ferment out starters on a stir plate. I boil them in big stainless tea kettle.

 

[c3hutson]

I ALWAYS go straight from the stovetop to an ice bath. Never had a problem...

 

[bja]

I ALWAYS go straight from the stovetop to an ice bath. Never had a problem...

Sooner or later you will. Like johnsma22 said, borosilicate glass will break after repeated heat/cool cycles. The number of cycles is a crap shoot, but eventually it'll happen.

 

[c3hutson]

As a side note, make sure that if you are using this method that you don't have the cooling water line higher than the fill line of the flask.

 

[Grannyknot]

I'm in the laboratory equipment, glassware, & supplies industry.
Quality glassware will not break like that. The quality glassware companies engineer these products to be able to withstand going from a hot plate or burner to near freezing temperatures repeatedly....just like they would in a lab environment. The only exception to this I can think of is if a microscopic fracture was present in the flask which weakened the wall.

Almost all the E-Flasks I've seen sold by NB, Midwest, Austin, etc, are junk.

I would recommend the Fisher Brand. Corning Pyrex is still a good brand too.

 

[Grannyknot]

Pyrex isn't necessarily borosilicate any more. Corning sold the brand, and the brand now means nothing. The company that bought the brand does NOT make them from borosilicate.

passedpawn, this isn't entirely true. Corning sold their kitchen cookware division of pyrex to world kitchen and still allows them to use the pyrex name. Correct, the cookware isn't made with borosilicate. The Lab grade E-flasks are still made by the original Corning company under the pyrex name.

From their catalog:

About PYREX Products

For over 95 years, Corning has developed special glass for use in both chemical and life science laboratories. PYREX glassware is made from Type 1, Class A low expansion borosilicate glass that has become the accepted standard in chemistry labs across the globe.

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks, I stand corrected. Kitchenware that says Pyrex is just tempered glass, but E-flasks and lab glassware is still the borosilicate Pyrex. I'm glad you pointed this out, since I have Pyrex flasks.

This first line in the Pyrex wiki entry is misleading, but the article does go on to clarify.

Pyrex (trademarked as PYREX) is a brand which was introduced by Corning Incorporated in 1915 for a line of clear, low-thermal-expansion borosilicate glass used for laboratory glassware and kitchenware. It is now made of tempered glass.

passedpawn, this isn't entirely true. Corning sold their kitchen cookware division of pyrex to world kitchen and still allows them to use the pyrex name. Correct, the cookware isn't made with borosilicate. The Lab grade E-flasks are still made by the original Corning company under the pyrex name.

From their catalog:

 

[supercarbuilder]

I'm in the laboratory equipment, glassware, & supplies industry.
Quality glassware will not break like that. The quality glassware companies engineer these products to be able to withstand going from a hot plate or burner to near freezing temperatures repeatedly....just like they would in a lab environment. The only exception to this I can think of is if a microscopic fracture was present in the flask which weakened the wall.

Almost all the E-Flasks I've seen sold by NB, Midwest, Austin, etc, are junk.

I would recommend the Fisher Brand. Corning Pyrex is still a good brand too.

Thanks for the input, this is exactly what I was looking for, a real name brand flask. I love More Beer but I've heard they have student grade "cheap" flasks and that is where I got mine. I'll be looking for a Fisher Flask.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

passedpawn, this isn't entirely true. Corning sold their kitchen cookware division of pyrex to world kitchen and still allows them to use the pyrex name. Correct, the cookware isn't made with borosilicate. The Lab grade E-flasks are still made by the original Corning company under the pyrex name.

^^^ This is what I knew of it. We've been through that discussion a few times in another thread. [OK I should have pointed it out].

MC

 

[supercarbuilder]

I'm in the laboratory equipment, glassware, & supplies industry.
Quality glassware will not break like that. The quality glassware companies engineer these products to be able to withstand going from a hot plate or burner to near freezing temperatures repeatedly....just like they would in a lab environment. The only exception to this I can think of is if a microscopic fracture was present in the flask which weakened the wall.

Almost all the E-Flasks I've seen sold by NB, Midwest, Austin, etc, are junk.

I would recommend the Fisher Brand. Corning Pyrex is still a good brand too.

Also do you have a good spot to buy these things, I'm not seeing any on ebay and the fisher site seems to be business account only. thanks

 

[kombat]

I'm of the mindset, "Better safe, than sorry." I boil and cool my starter wort in a stainless steel pot. I only transfer it to the flask after it's already cooled to room temperature, completely isolating my (expensive) flasks from any temperature shocks whatsoever.

That said, I've recently switched to canning my starter wort, so when it's time to make a starter, my wort is already at the perfect (room) temperature. I just pop the top of the jar, pour it into the flask, cover the top with sanitized foil, shake the heck out of it, slip in the stir bar, and finally pour in the yeast.

 

[Grannyknot]

Also do you have a good spot to buy these things, I'm not seeing any on ebay and the fisher site seems to be business account only. thanks

There are places out there that sell them to the public. I believe medex supply is a dealer for them. The Corning Pyrex brand will be easier to find and is good quality as well. There are other brand names out there that will do just fine. Just don't buy a no-name flask.

If there is enough interest in a large order for Homebrew Talk, Like 2 flasks per person, 10+ people, i'll bring in a large shipment and put them on the classifieds section. This, of course, is contingent on my assumption that my dealer agreement wouldn't specifically prohibit something like this.

 

[Hello]

Does it say Pyrex on it? If not, "there's your problem".

When you cool a starter, start with as-hot-as-it-will-give tap water. Ease her slowly towards the middle, eventually going to the cold side.

MC

I totally wish my pyrex behaved like others seem to say it should. I've lost a 8x8 and 9x13 pan by taking them from the oven after supper was done and placing both on granite counter tops, most likely in the winter when it is colder. Both broke.

To the OP, absolutely the ice bath from stove was too extreme. That is a bummer too.

 

[passedpawn]

Maybe try http://www.cynmar.com/Products/products-by-category/glassware/Flasks/Flasks__Erlenmeyer

I've bought stuff from them. Not sure of the brand, but it is Pyrex.

 

[Spartan1979]

I've had good luck with the Kimax brand.

I've bought one off brand flask and it broke the first time I was heating it.

 

[supercarbuilder]

Upon further examination, I found that along the ring of death where the glass broke there is a more jagged spot. With a closer look that glass is much thinner than the rest of the glass at that point. I would say that being the cheapest online flask I could get, you run the risk of getting poor quality control and imperfect glass.

 

[supercarbuilder]

This is what Morebeer has on there site now. This was not there when I purchased mine. Seems like they know these suck.

"Safety First: Please take us up on a great deal by purchasing one of our 5 gallon kettles.

Recommended Process for Use of Flask:
Double Boiler Method

It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.

Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."

 

[Grannyknot]

VWR is a good supplier for quality glassware.

https://us.vwr.com/store/search/sea...r=+&type=s&sfh_removefilter=submit&id=Corning

 

[supercarbuilder]

VWR is a good supplier for quality glassware.

https://us.vwr.com/store/search/sea...r=+&type=s&sfh_removefilter=submit&id=Corning

I like these, the corning Pyrex with the screw on cap and the no drip pouring ring. I make starters in the house decant and bring the yeast to the barn, shop, brew store, or a friends house. I think that the cap would be beneficial for transportation.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

Even lab quality flasks can have flaws, and if they're cheap flasks the variations in thickness (like OP noted) will cause stress concentrations. But the drastic temperature change never helps, and in the case of a sterilized starter culture an extra couple minutes between fire and ice isn't going to cause you to grow Bubonic Plague.

 

[causeimthesquid]

I have a 1000ml Pyrex and 2000ml Kimax erlenmyer. The pyrex seems to be thicker walled, but that may just be due to the size.

I haven't had a problem with either of them. They are both borosillicate glassware. I would guess the OP simply had a cheaper tempered glass flask.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I like these, the corning Pyrex with the screw on cap and the no drip pouring ring. I make starters in the house decant and bring the yeast to the barn, shop, brew store, or a friends house. I think that the cap would be beneficial for transportation.

The baffled one also increases the O2/CO2 exchange:

https://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?catalog_number=22877-274

MC

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I totally wish my pyrex behaved like others seem to say it should. I've lost a 8x8 and 9x13 pan by taking them from the oven after supper was done and placing both on granite counter tops, most likely in the winter when it is colder. Both broke.

Use a couple of dishtowels under the pans.

MC

 

[txjoe]

The baffled one also increases the O2/CO2 exchange:



https://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?catalog_number=22877-274



MC

Dang those things are expensive.