Enough Bubbles or Fermentation Died?

[smyrnaquince]

I brewed my first beer, a 5-gallon batch of stout, on Sunday (O.G. = 1.048, S-04 yeast). Yesterday (24 hours later) I was getting a "bloop" every 5 seconds or so on the fermentation lock. Today (48 hours after brewing), I am not seeing any blooping. I took the lid off of the bucket and did see a very few bubbles breaking the surface, but it was rather sedate. The temperature on the stick-on thermometer on the bucket reads 72F. I could see 1-1.5 inches of the remains of the kreusen on the sides of the bucket.

Is this normal/OK, or did my fermentation die early? If the latter, what should I try to do to restart it? (My inclination is to just let it go, but I am surprised that the fermentation would have slowed down this much already. I've been doing 1-gallon batches of cider and fruit wine and they all bubble a lot longer than this.)

I plan to let it go three weeks in the primary, then bottle, i.e., no secondary. So, it is not a big deal to leave it alone.

(By the way, I can't believe how hard it was to get that lid off the bucket!)

 

[Revvy]

Airlock bubbling and fermentation are not the same things, so a slowing airlock doesn't equate with slowing fermentation, or really anything....

Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer. And yes bubbling slows down eventually.

Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.

If your airlock was bubbling and stopped---It doesn't mean fermentation has stopped.

If you airlock isn't bubbling, it doesn't mean your fermentation hasn't started....

If your airlock starts bubbling, it really doesn't matter.

If your airlock NEVER bubbles, it doesn't mean anything is wrong or right.

Your airlock is not a fermentation gauge, it is a VALVE to release excess co2. If it bubbles it is because it needs to, if it doesn't, it just means it doesn't need too...


Your HYDROMETER is the only BEST indicator of fermentation activity. Nothing else is accurate or consistent...

Unless you take a gravity reading you don't know what's really going on, not by airlock bubbling or by krausen formation. Neither of those signs are effective, they don't tell you exactly where on the fermentation process you are.

The amount of krausen can vary for whatever reason, it can come quick and depart quickly or it can linger long after fermentation is complete, and it all be normal.

And airlocks sometimes bubble or they don't. And airlock is a valve, a vent to release excess co2...NOT a fermentation gauge. It's important to make that distinction, or you'll be panicking everytime a an airlock doesn't bubble, or stops bubbling.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate).

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Fast fermentations/slow fermentations/big krausens/small krausens/bubbles starting and stopping, in the long run is really irrevelent....just that you have fermentation. Yeast don't normal normally die/stop fermenting/get tired, that's a premise new brewers believe, but it's not the truth. Yeast have been doing this for 4,000 years, and know how to ferment the beer, they WANT to ferment the beer, it's their entire purpose in life is to eat sugar, peer alcohol and fart co2 (along with some major screwing during the reproductive phase) especially modern 21st century yeast.

All those other things are really just superficial to the purpose at hand, if your yeast took off, unless you let the temp go down near 50, your yeast is still working happily away, despite what the supreficial signs like airlock may indicate.

 

[NorthRiverS]

Seems like perfectly normal fermentation to me.

NRS

 

[junior]

Revvy, if you take a gravity test isn't there a danger of contamination and if not how often do you recommend taking a gravity test.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, if you take a gravity test isint there a danger of contamination?

In homebrewing there is so much that we advise folks not to do, yet the one thing that EVERY book, podcast, magazine and website talks about is gravity readings....

How do you think we get them?

Do you think the advice to take them is a vast conspiracy by us old timers to ruin millions of new brewer's batches, so that they flee the hobby and give it a bad rap? Or so they make crappy beer and we kick your asses in contests?

With simple sanitization practices openning the fermenter to take a reading is perfectly safe. You won't spoil your beer.

I know it's a scary premise, but it is really silly to avoid something scientific like a gravity reading because you're afraid of that and instead rely on something faulty like counting bubbles. You have to man up, grow some stones and get over the idea that openning your fermenter to do something positive like take a gravity reading, is dangerous.

Our beer is much stronger than that.

Here, read this, Revvy's advice for the new brewer in terms of worry. You might find the info and advice helpful....

 

[smyrnaquince]

I have a wine thief and could take a hydrometer reading now, but I think I'm better off mucking with this as little as possible.

When I brewed a mead, one of the big concerns was a fermentation that would start, but then get stuck. I think, though, that there are enough nutrients in a beer wort that this shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks, Revvy. The fermentation definitely started and nothing has changed that would have caused it to stop. Unless someone tells me differently, I'm going to let it go the full three weeks before I think about it again.

(I think I'll just leave the lid on top without snapping it on, though. It was a bugger to get off. The cover should keep out any critters and the CO2 blanket should protect the wort.)

Sorry to ask such a first-timer question. I found posts about fermentation "not starting" for 48 hours or more, but none about it "stopping" in such a short time. Now I am comfortable that it has not stopped.

 

[smyrnaquince]

All right. I was so slow typing that I missed Revvy's latest response. Revvy, do you recommend me taking a reading or just letting it sit? My uninformed guess is to let it sit. Thanks!

 

[Revvy]

All right. I was so slow typing that I missed Revvy's latest response. Revvy, do you recommend me taking a reading or just letting it sit? My uninformed guess is to let it sit. Thanks!

If you're worried or in doubt, take a reading...That's the point of my blog, a hydrometer is the only reliable DIAGNOSTIC tool we have. If you trust your yeast, which has never let ME down, and you plan on an extended primary then walk away and have some faith.

I take a gravity reading on yeast pitch day and 1 month later on bottling day, and I don't even peak into my brew closet in that month, unless I'm bored, but I don't judge what I seem and I don't expect anything is wrong either. Because it rarely is.

And don't judge your beer by what the airlock is or isn't doing....

But if you ever have questions about what your beer is doing...Don't start a thread about it...We're not beery psychics, we can't see into your beer closet, and if we did it would involve remote viewing a hydrometer anyway. If you ever have doubts reach for the one tool that will REALLY tell you what is going on.

 

[junior]

In homebrewing there is so much that we advise folks not to do, yet the one thing that EVERY book, podcast, magazine and website talks about is gravity readings....

How do you think we get them?

Do you think the advice to take them is a vast conspiracy by us old timers to ruin millions of new brewer's batches, so that they flee the hobby and give it a bad rap? Or so they make crappy beer and we kick your asses in contests?

With simple sanitization practices openning the fermenter to take a reading is perfectly safe. You won't spoil your beer.

I know it's a scary premise, but it is really silly to avoid something scientific like a gravity reading because you're afraid of that and instead rely on something faulty like counting bubbles. You have to man up, grow some stones and get over the idea that openning your fermenter to do something positive like take a gravity reading, is dangerous.

Our beer is much stronger than that.

Here, read this, Revvy's advice for the new brewer in terms of worry. You might find the info and advice helpful....

Revvy, thank's for the response, can I use alcohol to sanitize the thief when taking a sample?

 

[profmorrismsu]

Is there a thread somewhere which talks about what causes an air lock to bubble or not to bubble besides fermentation?

I know an airlock may bubble after fermentation ends when a beer is out gassing. I assume air pressure or temperature changes can lead to out gassing.

I know an airlock may not bubble (during fermentation) if the seal on the lid or air lock is bad.

Those are the main ones I can think of. What are the less obvious reasons?

I am just curious. I have always wondered if there are beer types or brewing methods which lend to other reasons for a lack of bubbles or excess of bubbles. Or are there beers or yeasts which are just known not to produce many bubbles through the air lock?

I am a simple extract ale brewer. Maybe that leads to my ignorance.

PS. I am not trying to argue. Just trying to learn.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, thank's for the response, can I use alcohol to sanitize the thief when taking a sample?

What is your normal sanitizer? With no rinse sanitizers like starsan and iodophor (and I use both) I keep spray bottles with the sanitizers and distilled water in them, and just spray everything down, including the bucket lid or carboy stopper and the top of the fermenter. I'm not confortable with using rubbing alcohol as a sanitizer, so I won't comment on it.

 

[weagle05]

I bought brew balls several batches ago, they're pretty nifty for monitoring progress at a glance, and typically when I do draw a sample to check SG, I'm at my target final gravity.

So if you can't just relax and let the yeast do their thing and are apprehensive about taking samples, they are worth checking out, especially if you have a clear carboy.

 

[tvtoms]

There are some lids out there called Gamma Seal lids which convert a standard 12 inch diameter snap on lidded bucket to a screw off/on lidded bucket. There's an outer ring that snaps on, and a threaded inner lid. Both with gaskets and they're made for food storage from hdpe2 just like fermenting buckets.

I haven't tried one, but they sure look perfect for saving fingers on those tight lids.

 

[Clann]

There are some lids out there called Gamma Seal lids which convert a standard 12 inch diameter snap on lidded bucket to a screw off/on lidded bucket. There's an outer ring that snaps on, and a threaded inner lid. Both with gaskets and they're made for food storage from hdpe2 just like fermenting buckets.

I haven't tried one, but they sure look perfect for saving fingers on those tight lids.

I have one and love it. Very easy to remove the top and seals airtight.

 

[smyrnaquince]

Revvy, thank's for the response, can I use alcohol to sanitize the thief when taking a sample?

This is the OP, not Revvy. Based on my (limited) experience with cider, wine, and mead, I'd recommend using whatever you used to sanitize your equipment on brew day. For me, that is iodophor. I don't know that I've read that alcohol is a sanitizer. Even if it could be used as such, I have no idea what contact time or temperature would be needed.

 

[jaycount]

What is your normal sanitizer? With no rinse sanitizers like starsan and iodophor (and I use both) I keep spray bottles with the sanitizers and distilled water in them, and just spray everything down, including the bucket lid or carboy stopper and the top of the fermenter. I'm not confortable with using rubbing alcohol as a sanitizer, so I won't comment on it.

This.

I keep a spray bottle of starsan soln and then when I want to take a gravity test (I wait at least 3 weeks), I spray my wine thief in and out with the sanitizer, open the valve to get sanitizer get in the little nooks and crannies of the valve, then go take my sample.

I DO NOT return the sample to the fermenter. It's a small enough amount that it's not worth the risk, plus I taste the sample anyways :cross:

 

[reim0027]

The bubbling is fun to see, but I don't gauge my results on anything other than a hydrometer reading (and my tasting of the sample, of course). I spray the hell out of everything (with Star-San). I keep a spray bottle right next to my fermenter for convenience.

And, Revvy, your first post seems very familiar. Do you have a template that you copy and paste?

 

[eastoak]

This is the OP, not Revvy. Based on my (limited) experience with cider, wine, and mead, I'd recommend using whatever you used to sanitize your equipment on brew day. For me, that is iodophor. I don't know that I've read that alcohol is a sanitizer. Even if it could be used as such, I have no idea what contact time or temperature would be needed.

i have used alcohol as a sanitizer for small items many times and have never had a problem.

 

[junior]

What is your normal sanitizer? With no rinse sanitizers like starsan and iodophor (and I use both) I keep spray bottles with the sanitizers and distilled water in them, and just spray everything down, including the bucket lid or carboy stopper and the top of the fermenter. I'm not confortable with using rubbing alcohol as a sanitizer, so I won't comment on it.

The sanitizer I use is starstan, I just wanted to know if all I wanted to sanitize a small object packet of yeast or airlock if alcohol would be good in stead of using stanstar.

 

[jsweet]

The sanitizer I use is starstan, I just wanted to know if all I wanted to sanitize a small object packet of yeast or airlock if alcohol would be good in stead of using stanstar.

Get a spray bottle and put Sanstar in it. It is the most awesome thing EVER. Way more convenient for sanitizing small objects than any other method.

Before I started using Sanstar, I used to fret a bit about gravity readings. I had to try and actually get the wine thief to soak in sanitizer, which was somewhat of a trick given how tall it is. I had to either be super-careful after removing the bung&airlock not to set it down, or else I had to have a freshly sanitized bung&airlock soaking and ready to go. And I always worried that any drips coming off the wine thief would trickle down the external lip of the carboy into the mouth and carry some contaminants with it. I never had a problem, but it was nerve-wracking.

Now, with the spray bottle, I have no fear at all. I spray the wine thief inside and out, spray around the bung on top of my carboy, spray a butterknife that I use for prying if the bung is a little stubborn... pop the bung, set it on a clean surface, thieve myself some beer... then spray the bung all around the bottom and sides and push it back on. Everything that comes within a foot of the top of the carboy is drenched in a fresh layer of Sanstar, and the top is only open for 15 seconds or so. I can't possibly see how I could get contamination that way.

To the OP: S-04 is also a hella-fast fermenting yeast, IIRC. I am not surprised at all to hear that the krauesen came up, blew some bubbles, and fell back down all in less than 48 hours.

Regarding airlock bubbling as an indicator, I think there is one true prediction you can make based on airlock bubbling: If the airlock is bubbling every few seconds, you are still getting active fermentation/attenuation. The inverse is not true, i.e. even if the airlock is not bubbling every few seconds, that does not imply that you aren't getting fermentation. And a trickle of bubbles (1-2/minute) tells you nothing, because that could be simply CO2 escaping from solution, it could be a tiny bit of late fermentation, or it could even be an active fermentation where most of the air is escaping somewhere else. But I do think you can be confident that if you see a bubble every few seconds, you are actively fermenting. There's just nowhere else for that much CO2 to come from!

 

[jsweet]

Yeesh, you said "stanstar" one time and it ended up infecting my brain and making me say it backwards the whole post. You know what I mean!