English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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Qhrumphf said:
How old are you getting SNPA? I'm guessing it's age. It's very hoppy, but not particularly malty at all. Age would bring out malt sweetness, and darken it too. Exactly what we see from most European imports.
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Up to quite fresh in keg at times, but yeah, most of the bottled stuff doesn't come across that fresh. I think American beers tend to have a more robust malt backbone anyway (crystal malts, more OG, etc.). Even the bigger British beers like Old Tom are medium to medium-high bodied rather than massive malt bombs.
 
American craft beers tend to have higher finishing gravities in my experience, and are more inclined to be all-malt than English and Belgian beers (although not as stodgy about it as the Germans). So I could see what you're saying.
 
I think I'm about to commit treason on my special winter bitter. I want something nice and malty, a slightly reddish copper, but with a firm hop bitterness and late character. I want it to have a full body despite it being only 1.044-1.048 OG. I also want it to have a little bit of that toasted bread/biscuity flavor of some pale ales. This will never be a standard house recipe, more like a "special release." My MO is a touch old and hasn't been stored in the absolute best environment, so I wanted to give it a little help. I know the amount of specialty malts is not traditional at all, but any thoughts?

Bitter Winter (4 gallons)

Est. OG: 1.044-1.048
Est. IBU: 35-40
Est. SRM: 12-14

4.5 lb. MO
.5-75 lb. Flaked Oats
4 oz. Biscuit
4 oz. Dark Crystal
6 oz. Invert
(4 oz melanoidin or c77? Amber malt?)

.33 oz. Challenger (8.9%AA) @60
.25 oz. EKG (6.4%AA) @60
.25 oz. Challenger @20
.25 oz. EKG @20
.55 oz. Challenger @ FO (hopstand?)
.45 oz. EKG (hopstand?)

WLP013

I also have lighter crystal, chocolate, pale chocolate, roasted barley, and a few other malts on hand if anyone would add/subtract/replace anything. Also have an oz. of Fuggles I could play with. I'm okay with not fitting into style guidelines exactly on this one as long as I have a nice beer with some good English character. Thanks gents! :mug:
 
Having Marston's Owd Rodger for the first time. Not bad. Near flat, no head. Dark brown (like a lighter porter). No roast flavours, but mainly lots of sweetish malt and a big hit of sugar cane and alcohol. Quite a blatant toffee and stewed fruit type of flavour a bit like Christmas pudding. Lingering bitterness but could do with a bit more hops in there.
 
Anyone currently on that's made Invert before? I was expecting it to be more bubbly. It's sitting at 245ish right now according to my thermometer, but just sitting there still. I wonder if my thermometer just doesn't read that high of temperatures well? It's not a candy thermometer for sure. I guess Im expecting it to be reducing more...

It was quite foamy when bringing up to temp but has died off completely now.
 
Homed in what type of EIPA I'm making tomorrow (just under 6% abv, around 50IBU). Aiming at floral and drinkable. Just about nudging into trans-Atlantic.

For 6 US gallons

11lb Maris Otter
1lb Flaked Maize

60m - 1oz Challenger
15m - 2oz EKG, 1oz Cascade
Hopstand - 1oz EKG, 1oz Cascade
Dry hop - 2oz EKG, 1oz Cascade

Current yeast choice is the MJ West Coast (could say it's second generation migrant British yeast).
 
iijakii said:
Anyone currently on that's made Invert before? I was expecting it to be more bubbly. It's sitting at 245ish right now according to my thermometer, but just sitting there still. I wonder if my thermometer just doesn't read that high of temperatures well? It's not a candy thermometer for sure. I guess Im expecting it to be reducing more...

It was quite foamy when bringing up to temp but has died off completely now.
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Didn't see this until today (clearly I spend too little time online)
How'd it turn out for you?
When I made some #2-ish, and the few other candy making episodes, the boiling sugar solution has plateaus, and in between those interminable plateau times are freakishly quick, panic-inducing temperature jumps.
 
balrog said:
Didn't see this until today (clearly I spend too little time online)
How'd it turn out for you?
When I made some #2-ish, and the few other candy making episodes, the boiling sugar solution has plateaus, and in between those interminable plateau times are freakishly quick, panic-inducing temperature jumps.
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It didnt turn out well. I think I made more candy instead. I'll probably get a proper candy thermometer and try again one of these days.
 
iijakii said:
It didnt turn out well. I think I made more candy instead. I'll probably get a proper candy thermometer and try again one of these days.
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I found I had to constantly adjust heat (down) to keep from jumping temp to fast and scorching. Also, a reliable thermometer is crucial to keep you from being way past hard crack stage when you think you're at soft ball stage. Or maybe the good cooks recognize easily with practice where they are, but for me, it takes a long freaking time to make this stuff and I don't see "practicing" too much in my future.
 
Yeah it'll be awhile before I try it again. Probably wait until I get to try a quality DEM made with one and feel the need.
 
So, how many of us following this thread actually are brewing these to serve off cask (via gravity of Beer Engine)?

I personally use a beer engine... anyone else?

:mug:
 
Seems to me it you should set a cask breather to the gas in post, attach a float to the beer out dip tube, and hook it up to an engine. That's how you keg the right way, albeit not CAMRA approved (or have they lightened up on cask breathers?).
 
Qhrumphf said:
Seems to me it you should set a cask breather to the gas in post, attach a float to the beer out dip tube, and hook it up to an engine. That's how you keg the right way, albeit not CAMRA approved (or have they lightened up on cask breathers?).
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CAMRA haven't lightened up on cask breathers. There has been a type of keg developed which is CAMRA approved: the KeyKeg. It has a bag inside the keg which you prime and allow to carbonate naturally. Then the artificial CO2 pressure applied externally compresses the bag inside the keg expelling the beer without mixing with it. That way, not artificial carbonation is added to the beer or gets in touch with it. PS: it also allows pubs set up with keg dispensers to dispense real ale.
 
Btw, all the cool breweries seem to be using KeyKegs: Tiny Rebel, The Kernel, Brewdog, Wild, etc.
 
JKaranka said:
CAMRA haven't lightened up on cask breathers. There has been a type of keg developed which is CAMRA approved: the KeyKeg. It has a bag inside the keg which you prime and allow to carbonate naturally. Then the artificial CO2 pressure applied externally compresses the bag inside the keg expelling the beer without mixing with it. That way, not artificial carbonation is added to the beer or gets in touch with it. PS: it also allows pubs set up with keg dispensers to dispense real ale.
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Huh. That's an interesting design. Polypin inside a keg. Lol.
 
KeyKegs filled in the states are utilized as a disposable keg for one way transit. Beer is force carbonated and served on tap as normal. Haven't seen a keykeg you prime here in the US, although it appears they do make "KeyCasks" for the UK.
 
bierhaus15 said:
KeyKegs filled in the states are utilized as a disposable keg for one way transit. Beer is force carbonated and served on tap as normal. Haven't seen a keykeg you prime here in the US, although it appears they do make "KeyCasks" for the UK.
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Yeah :D

They do allow for real ale to be dispensed using a standard continental beer setup. So pretty handy for shipping to the rest of Europe. That said, I saw a lot of casks in Milan a couple of years back. Italian brewers, though.
 
I'm handling these beers like all my others ... kegging them after fermetantion and the off to the keezer, carbonate and serve. Probably heresy to the purists but the beer tastes good to me.


Cheers!
:mug:
 
Interesting aromas coming out from the hops. Challenger is what you expect: floral, somewhat earthy, very clean traditional hop character. Cascade: typical Cascade aroma, floral, somewhat noble in a weird way. But the EKG: unexpectedly lemony, a bit like lemongrass with a slightly sour hint. Surprising considering how clean and floral it comes across in the finished product. I even checked both packs I had of EKG and they had the same aroma. EKG was also, surprisingly, more pungent than the Cascade.
 
iijakii said:
Anyone currently on that's made Invert before? I was expecting it to be more bubbly. It's sitting at 245ish right now according to my thermometer, but just sitting there still. I wonder if my thermometer just doesn't read that high of temperatures well? It's not a candy thermometer for sure. I guess Im expecting it to be reducing more...

It was quite foamy when bringing up to temp but has died off completely now.
Click to expand...

I actually don't find specific temperature to be all that important. Keep it boiling in a controlled manner and keep stirring so it doesn't burn. It doesn't need to be as high as some people say it does, it will still invert as long as you have some sort of acid in it. You're not making candy (although the concept is similar), you're making invert for brewing.

I make #2 all the time, it just takes a while. You're using turbinado or something similar, right?
 
lowtones84 said:
I actually don't find specific temperature to be all that important. Keep it boiling in a controlled manner and keep stirring so it doesn't burn. It doesn't need to be as high as some people say it does, it will still invert as long as you have some sort of acid in it. You're not making candy (although the concept is similar), you're making invert for brewing.

I make #2 all the time, it just takes a while. You're using turbinado or something similar, right?
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Temp is very important for the consistency of the product. Once you get >250F it starts becoming a much thicker product, and it doesn't seem to take very long. Most folks who boil the crap out of it seem to be making hard candy, not syrup. They also don't do it for nearly as long, and hence the having to cheat by adding things like lye and DME to it to get some flavor.

Making #1 is cake, #2-3 are easy, but making #4 is an ordeal, but once you start get getting to ~3.5 hours at temp, the rate of increase in color change is incredible.
 
Qhrumphf said:
Temp is very important for the consistency of the product. Once you get >250F it starts becoming a much thicker product, and it doesn't seem to take very long. Most folks who boil the crap out of it seem to be making hard candy, not syrup. They also don't do it for nearly as long, and hence the having to cheat by adding things like lye and DME to it to get some flavor.

Making #1 is cake, #2-3 are easy, but making #4 is an ordeal, but once you start get getting to ~3.5 hours at temp, the rate of increase in color change is incredible.
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I should have been more specific. I don't think you need to get it as hot as people say you do. Typically my boil is pretty low, and I've stopped using a thermometer at this point because I know by eye what works for me. I'm not sure I've ever gotten mine over 225-230F and it works just fine every time. A good, flavorful syrup that doesn't burn and turns out to be the color and described flavor of #2.
 
Brewday went well. The EIPA ended up a mid gold colour not unlike a darkish festbier. Sample came out at 1.055 in my hydrometer (which usually means 1.058). Had a nice 20m steep of EKG and Cascade at 185F.
 
Having a pint of St Austell Tribute. Nice floral / earthy hops up front, decent deal of bitterness and enough malt to notice. Nice spicy steep / dry hop aroma. Walks the line between bitter and golden ale. Hops are Fuggles, Willamette and Celeia. 4.2%. I like it in cask if you can get it fresh (in the West Country).
 
First (and now third) pull of that WGV Bitter I posted (pin could use a touch more settling time but mostly clear). This is incredible. Between this and that Oat Mild, two of the better beers I've brewed. Aside from being smaller, this is roughly similiar to the Bramling Cross Bitter I also posted in every other facet (grain bill percentages, hop schedule, etc), but I like this a lot more.

20160226_163218[1].jpg
 
Looks great! The first pull is always like that with the pins? Any chance you could repost the recipe or link to it?
 
lowtones84 said:
Looks great! The first pull is always like that with the pins? Any chance you could repost the recipe or link to it?
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Qhrumphf said:
Here's an Ordinary Bitter showcasing WGV I brewed Sunday night (mashed at 152F, fermenting at 67F, has just gone quiet today), repitched from my previous Pale Mild (I'll be tapping a pin of that tonight). It's strikingly similar to my previous Bramling Cross Bitter, just significantly lower gravity and hopped a little differently. While I kill off the last of a pin of the BX Bitter. Which came out beautifully.

In both cases, I targeted my go-to profile for Bitter using some gypsum and CaCl, with an approximate profile of ~100ppm calcium, ~20ppm sodium, ~70ppm chloride, ~175ppm sulfate, and my base water is ~75ppm alkalinity but knocked down with acid.

5 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.1 %
6.0 oz Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.4 %
8.0 oz UK Invert #2 (32.5 SRM) Sugar 3 8.5 %
0.75 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 32.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 8.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 8 -
1.00 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Measured Original Gravity: 9.0 Plato
Est Final Gravity: 2.0 Plato
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 42.9 IBUs
Est Color: 7.6 SRM
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Quoted the recipe. And yes, typically my first pulls are like that. Subsequent a little less head (since you can't soft spile a polypin, despite venting my first pulls are usually especially lively, and pull a bit of sediment in the process)
 
JKaranka said:
Having a pint of St Austell Tribute. Nice floral / earthy hops up front, decent deal of bitterness and enough malt to notice. Nice spicy steep / dry hop aroma. Walks the line between bitter and golden ale. Hops are Fuggles, Willamette and Celeia. 4.2%. I like it in cask if you can get it fresh (in the West Country).
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I'm a fan of St Austell

Their yeast is pretty good to culture up too, from HSD or Proper Job

I don't think Tribute is bottle conditioned though sadly, still a good beer though
 
Funny, I just posted a recipe for an English under "does this recipe look tasty" a few posts up. I was looking for input on a English bitter recipe. Want to make a really good one.
 
Qhrumphf said:
Quoted the recipe. And yes, typically my first pulls are like that. Subsequent a little less head (since you can't soft spile a polypin, despite venting my first pulls are usually especially lively, and pull a bit of sediment in the process)
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Awesome, thanks. And in my post the question mark to do with the first pull of a pin was supposed to be an exclamation point, haha. The first pull usually does bring a little sediment for me too, but no big deal. Surprisingly, most of my friends love the serving method too.
 
My India Export Porter, brewed in November and bottled mid December is one of the best I've brewed. Great color with a ruby tinge in light, complex flavor that's both malty and hoppy, and head retention for days. I'll try to get a pic soon :p If there's one flaw, there's a very slight tart aspect to it that I can't track down. I really don't think there's any infection as it's been bottled for almost 3 months now and it's properly carbed and conditioned with no other signs of infection. The only thing I can think of is perhaps mash/general ph. I haven't invested in a good ph meter because the stickied water primer has served me well in my brewing thus far and I'm a poor college grad student who is looking to be a public school music teacher :p Any ideas?

Export India Porter
Est OG: 1.068
FG: 1.014
7.1% ABV
Est IBU: 75.76

5.5 lb. MO
2 lb. Brown malt
.5 lb. Amber malt
4 oz. Chocolate malt
1 lb. invert #2

.5 oz. Centennial (8.7AA)@90 min.
5.oz. Challenger (8.9AA), .5 oz. EKG (6.47AA) @ 60 min.
.25 oz. Challenger, .25 oz. EKG @ 30 min.
.38 oz. Bramling Cross, .2 oz. Challenger, .2 oz. EKG Hopstand @ 110F for 40 min.
.75 oz. EKG Dryhop, 4 days

4 gallons brita filtered tap water (dechlorinated w/campden), 2 gallons distilled.
Add 1 tsp each calcium chloride, gypsum.
10.3 qts. water for mashing (2 gallons, 2.3 qts.) for mashing. Strike water @ 168F.
Mash @ 152 F for
Bring to boil, make first hop addition. Follow hop schedule.
Add chiller & 1 lb. invert in last 15-20 min.
 
Looks good to me. What yeast did you use? S04 can come across slightly tart, for example. I find it makes dark beers more drinkable.
 
WLP007. I actually like that slight tartness at times, and I agree that it makes it more drinkable. It wasn't exactly what I was shooting for or expecting though. Maybe I should just suck it up and enjoy it!
 

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