EHERMS or RIMS?

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TheLostBeer

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So thanks to spike im considering their turnkey system (email this morning shows they are doin a finance option)

The downside is I have been slowly building up to do a electric system to include a rims tube, but after looking at them run their turnkey system, I like it...

I know there is always a eherms and rims talk goin on, and as to which one is a better option...

So I think the reason to look and consider the herms now is one because you have water ready to clean.

So what are the pros and cons of each ?

Again thanks a lot spike and doin this to me!
 
Are these the only two system configurations you're considering? I, through a process of morphing and meandering, ended up with a two vessel system that can be set up in a variety of configurations, including K RIMS, counterflow HERMS, single vessel, and probably others I haven't considered.

I say this not because I think you need a system that's more akin to a Transformer, but because after using counterflow HERMS I'm wondering why more people don't go that route.

What I mean by counterflow HERMS is using an external counterflow heat exchanger to transfer heat to the mash instead of a submerged coil. And when I say counterflow exchanger, I mean either a plate, pipe-in-pipe, or shell and tube. The pipe-in-pipe is commonly referred to as a counterflow, but technically all these exchangers are counterflow.

Anyhow, using this configuration allows a smaller volume of water to be used in the HLT, and I find that I get fantastic ramp times between rest steps even with just a single 1650 watt element on a 6 gallon batch. I only have about 3-4 gallons in my HLT.

Due to the fantastic heat transfer in an external heat exchanger, the wort return temp to the MLT can be very close to the temp of water in the HLT. This gives me the benefit of using the temperature of the wort returning to the kettle as the control point instead of using the HLT temp as the control point and futzing around with trying to figure out the temperature offset between the HLT and the MLT. This means I don't overshoot my rest temps whereas the reason traditional HERMS measures the HLT temp and uses an offset is to prevent overshoot.

Side note: Above I say "can be very close" because if you flow too fast on the wort side you could find a larger difference between the HLT temp and the wort return temp. Because the wort side is always throttled to prevent bed compaction, I've never found the flow rate where this happens on my system.

Other side note: I don't need sparge water as I'm a no sparge brewer. But, this configuration could still be used with a larger volume of sparge water in the HLT.

Just something to chew on.
 
I like this idea and I would like to be a two vessel system not three. Could you put up a photo or two were linked to this pipe in pipe heat exchanger? And I think I’ve read something in the form somewhere about this but I don’t remember what it was called and I want to say audiodog had a version of this.

I’ll be curious to see your set up as well to see how you have everything mounted and what not
 
I like this idea and I would like to be a two vessel system not three. Could you put up a photo or two were linked to this pipe in pipe heat exchanger? And I think I’ve read something in the form somewhere about this but I don’t remember what it was called and I want to say audiodog had a version of this.

I’ll be curious to see your set up as well to see how you have everything mounted and what not

Below is an example of a pipe-in-pipe... also referred to as a counterflow. But understand that almost every heat exchanger is counterflow, including plate and shell and tube types.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/w...dd-aOCe4PEnRe9klVrzjAL7QFkyiOWzRoCTg4QAvD_BwE

And for reference, here's the shell and tube that I just purchased and hopefully will be installing in my brew rig sometime this week.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/142420929546

I'll try to snap a few pictures of my rig in the next few days.
 
It would be cool if someone made a pool heat exchanger like that that came apart (triclamps or something). Cleaning it looks like it would be a nightmare.
 
It would be cool if someone made a pool heat exchanger like that that came apart (triclamps or something). Cleaning it looks like it would be a nightmare.
Agreed, that would be really cool. But still, this shell and tube pool exchanger is infinitely easier to mechanically clean than a pipe-in-pipe or a plate, which are impossible. With that, I don't plan on ever needing to mechanically clean it any way.
 
Hey @TexasWine... don't mean to HJ this thread but FYI that HEX may be a bit too short to work well. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597363

With respect to this thread... this is like a Chevy vs. Ford discussion... but I will express my opinion nonetheless: RIMs all day!
Well dang it. I contemplated a longer one but thought this one would suffice. Looks like my tubes are about 15" long.

I'll post some data on your thread for comparison when I get it up and running.
 
Well dang it. I contemplated a longer one but thought this one would suffice. Looks like my tubes are about 15" long.

I'll post some data on your thread for comparison when I get it up and running.

Don't think twice. I tested a short one at first and was unsatisfied with the results. That said, my groundwater is really warm, so if you have colder it may not matter.
 
I like this idea and I would like to be a two vessel system not three. Could you put up a photo or two were linked to this pipe in pipe heat exchanger? And I think I’ve read something in the form somewhere about this but I don’t remember what it was called and I want to say audiodog had a version of this.

I’ll be curious to see your set up as well to see how you have everything mounted and what not
Finally took a picture. Just mounted the hex tonight.

Edit: not sure why the picture didn't attach....
 
I have a 3 kettle EHERMS system and love it. I've tried BIAB and Gatorade coolers with a Sanke Keg before that but haven't tried the above methods.
 
blichmann makes a turnkey system with a rims, might want to check it out

http://www.blichmannengineeringproseries.com/product-p/ahoriz-elec-tk-10gal.htm

note that the price includes a table and chiller (plate) as standard, spike has those as add-ons.
I knew they started offering preconfigured systems, but I didn't know they had expanded their offerings this much!

If it were me I'd opt for the 1bbl Breweasy, which is the same price as the 10 gallon three vessel system.
 
I knew they started offering preconfigured systems, but I didn't know they had expanded their offerings this much!

If it were me I'd opt for the 1bbl Breweasy, which is the same price as the 10 gallon three vessel system.

if you started from scratch and got the table and chiller from spike, their 10-gal batch complete system is actually about $500 MORE than blichmann. i know, blichmann not the most expensive, crazy!:D

the spike system has three 20-gal kettles while the blichmann is a 15/15/20 gal setup so i suppose the blichmann may limit you on high-gravity brews. the spike system is basically a kal clone so all the controls are in one spot while the blichmann has two controllers for the elements, pumps are controlled via switches on the pumps themselves, there is no 'oh ****' e-stop button, no timer, etc. but that stuff is relatively minor. one downside to the blichmann is that it requires three receptacles to plug in the two controllers and one for the pump. so the user would have some extra wiring compared to the spike, which is a single 30 amp connection for everything. not the end of the world but if hiring an electrician to provide the receptacles, it will be more expensive to wire up three receptacles than one.
 
The big thing that’s turned me onto spike is that I get a discount there, so their 20 gallon system shipped is under 5k ..
I like blichmann, but goin to come down to price for sure.
 

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