Efficiency Help, process critique/advice.

[mikeyc]

I'm trying to concentrate on my process and trying to up my efficiency. I've typically been getting 65 - 68% efficiency. I've hit 70 maybe once. I brewed a Wheat beer tonight and tried my hand at a Single decoction mash. I'm going to post my notes here, in hopes to get some constructive criticism to help improve my next batch. Here goes.....

Recipe:
Grains:
5.8lbs American Wheat
5lbs American 2row

Hops:
.75oz Hallertau 45mins
.15oz Hallertau 15mins

Yeast:
Wyeast 1010

My decoction process has come from watching a lot of videos, and reading several recipes. Please call me out if I did something wrong or should have done something different. The constructive criticism is welcomed.

I doughed in for an acid rest at 114 for 15mins using a 1qt per lb ratio. Next, I added 7 quarts of heated water to bring my mash to 125 for a protein rest. I let that set for 30 mins. After that I did my decoction. (I originally wanted to try a double decoction, but after the time it took for the first decoction, and a tad bit of scorching, I just did one.) Removed the thick mash at 1qt/lb ratio, brought to a boil for 30 mins. Added back to mash tun to raise temperature. After adding all the grains, I could only get the temp up to 139. I added 1.5 qts of boiling water to get the temperature to 144 degrees. I let that set for 30 mins, and then added another 1.5 qts of boiling water to get to 152 degrees and let that set for 30 more mins. Took my first runnings, and got about 4.25 gallons of wort. I split my sparge in 2. I added the boiling sparge water, but could only get the temp up to 159 degrees. After the sparge was done, I ended up with 6.5 gallons of preboil wort. Preboil gravity was right at 1.040. Boiled the wort for 60mins, with the above hop schedule. SG was 1.052, giving me an efficiency of about 64%.

I use a cooler mash tun with an ss braid. I crushed all the grains at my LHBS. Im sure the beer will come out just fine. I just want to up my efficiency, and I don't know if I'm limited by my equipment, or if I'm just effing up my process.

Thanks for the help, and cheers.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Sounds like pretty solid brewing procedure. Can you try milling the grains a bit finer next time. Usually the grind is the #1 culprit on low efficiency. Also not sure as it wasn't apparently clear but you were letting your decoction sit at conversion temps for a bit before boiling yes? If not that might help bring you up some better efficiency. Your process sounded fine to me though. I usually get around 85% batch sparging, stirring like it owes me money, and since milling my own and getting more consistency then before.


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[madscientist451]

Your notes don't say anything about when and for how long you are stirring your mash. You also didn't say how much volume you had after boil to figure your efficiency. Using the numbers you provided, I'm figuring your post volume boil was about 5 gallons.
If you had just 1/2 gallon more wort at end of boil and your gravity
was still 1.052, your brewhouse efficiency would be 70.5%.
You didn't say what was the gravity of your final runnings from your second batch sparge. Could you have run 3 more quarts through to get another 1/2 gallon at the end? Perhaps you could have run more off than that and still maintained the same 1.052 post boil gravity.
So I would suggest taking gravity readings of your mash runnings
if you want to boost efficiency and see if you can get a little more volume. Some brewers say stir the mash more to increase efficiency, some say that doesn't help that much. When you add boiling water
you could be destroying some of the enzymes needed for conversion, especially if you add it to a thick mash.
So all these things may add up to your 64% efficiency or maybe not, Cheers!

 

[stevehardt]

I'm with Gil... check your crush

 

[j1n]

get your own mill and your eff will go up immediately. almost every the low eff thread i see is cause they crush their grains at the LBHS. or just double crush everytime. I have heard theories that LHBS purposely mill the grain wide so that you get a low eff and buy more groans to compensate.

 

[brewkinger]

Your process is good, which means that like others have mentioned, crush will give you the most efficiency boost for your buck.

As far as your decoction concern:
You did not mention what volume you used for the decoction.
10.8# grain at 1qt/# and an additional 7 qts for a total of 17.8 qts ( 18 for ease of calculations.)

How much of this did you take off and what temp were you aiming for?


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[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Can you try milling the grains a bit finer next time.

A fine crush only improves efficiency if the OP is batch sparging. Batch sparging and continuous sparging (a.k.a. fly sparging) are completely different animals. A mill setting much closer than 1mm (~0.040") usually results in lower efficiency when continuous sparging because a fine crush usually leads to channeling through the mash bed due to substantial husk damage.

One of the major efficiency killers is mash pH. Most potable water supplies in the U.S. have an alkaline pH with substantial alkalinity. A sample drawn from one's mash tun and cooled to room temperature should have a pH in the range of 5.4 to 5.6. A mash pH above this range means one should look into acidifying one's strike liquor.

 

[j1n]

A fine crush only improves efficiency of the OP is batch sparging. Batch sparging and continuous sparging (a.k.a. fly sparging) are completely different animals. A mill setting much closer than 1mm (~0.040") usually results in lower efficiency when continuous sparging because a fine crush usually leads to channeling through the mash bed due to substantial husk damage.

One of the major efficiency killers is mash pH. Most potable water supplies in the U.S. have an alkaline pH with substantial alkalinity. A sample drawn from one's mash tun and cooled to room temperature should have a pH in the range of 5.4 to 5.6. A mash pH above this range means one should look into acidifying one's strike liquor.

My mill is .039 (factory setting) and i get upper 80s eff and i fly sparge. If you get channeling then its cause your rushing it and going too fast.

Also pH range is 5.2 - 5.5.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

My mill is .039 (factory setting) and i get upper 80s eff and i fly sparge. If you get channeling then its cause your rushing it and going too fast.

Also pH range is 5.2 - 5.5.

Did you notice that I wrote "A mill setting much closer than 1mm (~0.040")?" Do you know what the mathematical symbol "~" means? It means approximately equal to (the actual symbol is "≈," but "~" is accepted as a substitute because it is easier to type). One millimeter in inches is equal to 1 / 25.4 = 0.0394", which is larger than 0.039", but smaller than 0.040." A 1mm feeler gauge will not fit between rollers that are spaced at 0.039", which means that I had to round up to the next common feeler gauge size for those who use English measurements; hence, the use of the symbol "~" in front of 0.040". At four ten-thousandth's of inch closer than 1mm, a gap of 0.039" is technically not much closer than 1mm. My mill is actually gapped at 1mm. I get 35 points per pound per gallon, which is an efficiency of 95%. Set your mill to 0.029", continuous sparge a batch, and get back with me. That roller spacing is very common in the world of batch sparging.

Also pH range is 5.2 - 5.5.

That's at mash temperature, not room temperature. The pH of a mash goes up as its temperature goes down. A mash pH of 5.5 is actually higher than desired. It translates to a room temperature pH of 5.8. A room temperature pH of 5.4 to 5.6 places the mash in the 5.2 pH +/- 1 point range, which is the Goldilocks zone for enzymatic activity.

 

[j1n]

Did you notice that I wrote "A mill setting much closer than 1mm (~0.040")?" Do you know what the mathematical symbol "~" means? It means approximately equal to (the actual symbol is "≈," but "~" is accepted as a substitute because it is easier to type). One millimeter in inches is equal to 1 / 25.4 = 0.0394", which is larger than 0.039", but smaller than 0.040." A 1mm feeler gauge will not fit between rollers that are spaced at 0.039", which means that I had to round up to the next common feeler gauge size for those who use English measurements; hence, the use of the symbol "~" in front of 0.040". At four ten-thousandth's of inch closer than 1mm, a gap of 0.039" is technically not much closer than 1mm. My mill is actually gapped at 1mm. I get 35 points per pound per gallon, which is an efficiency of 95%. Set your mill to 0.029", continuous sparge a batch, and get back with me. That roller spacing is very common in the world of batch sparging.



That's at mash temperature, not room temperature. The pH of a mash goes up as its temperature goes down. A mash pH of 5.5 is actually higher than desired. It translates to a room temperature pH of 5.8. A room temperature pH of 5.4 to 5.6 places the mash in the 5.2 pH +/- 1 point range, which is the Goldilocks zone for enzymatic activity.

First of all, i just misunderstood. You maybe should have said narrower than instead of much closer. i thought you meant close to 1mm. Also i just skimmed through your post i didn't see where you said room temp.

I wasn't trying to make you look stupid and im sorry your panties got all bunched up.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

First of all, i just misunderstood. You maybe should have said narrower than instead of much closer. i thought you meant close to 1mm. Also i just skimmed through your post i didn't see where you said room temp.

I wasn't trying to make you look stupid and im sorry your panties got all bunched up.

Posting a reply after skimming a posting is not a good habit. Even if you misinterpreted what I said, you would have known that 0.039" is ridiculously close to 1mm if you had just taken a few minutes to digest what I wrote before posting a reply.

You have clearly learned a lot in the short period that you have been brewing. I commend you for taking the initiative to dive headfirst into the subject. However, you really should take a few minutes to learn something about a forum member before attempting to disqualify the information he/she provided in a posting.