Efficency question

[lookwow]

So I didnt my 2nd all grain Saturday. The first one was a Hefe. I ended up a little high on that one but thats because i had more boil off then expected. But according to Beersmith i was at 74% eff.

So i did a APA that i ended up at 60% eff. Did everything the same as the first time. I even hit my 152 mash temp dead on and it stayed there the entire time. Should I worry about this or wait until i try another batch and see where that one goes.

Recipe was roughly (used RO water with acid malt and ca in the water.)

8lb 2 row
2lb veinna
1lb crystal 40
.5 cara-pills
2% acid malt

 

[MrHadack]

When doing all grain batches, especially just starting out, take plenty of notes with everything you are doing so you can really nail down your process and make it predictable. It will take you a few batches to really zero-in on a predictable method and process. Having said that...

Low efficiency can be due to the crush of the grain. Do you crush your own grain or buy it crushed? If you bought it crushed, did you get the grain for this batch from the same place as the other batch?

The thickness of the mash will also affect the efficiency. What ratio of water to grain did you use in each batch? Keeping track of that will help you figure out which works best. Typically a thicker mash will yield higher efficiency. EDIT: I was incorrect on this last point. See this web site for further info on the effect of mash thickness on efficiency

Also, the mash pH should be looked at. What was the pH of each mash? Do you have a pH meter to check it? Do you work out the water chemistry with a web site or other tool? Those are things you'll want to pay attention to when doing all grain batches because the pH will fluctuate from batch to batch because the different grains will affect it.

For example, the above recipe you posted combined with RO water will give you a mash pH of 5.2, which is close, but too low. You also said you added calcium. Did you use gypsum or something else? And how much did you put in? Depending how much you used, that will drive the pH even lower.

Lastly, your sparge process will really help or hurt your final efficiency. What type of sparge process do you use, and about how long does it take to do this step?

 

[lookwow]

Thaks for the reply.

I had it crushed for me as i dont have a mill yet. Same place as the last batch.

Did 1.3qt per lb on both batches.

For water i used the primer on this site for the basic RO. So thats 2% acid malt and 1tsp per 5gal calcium chloride.

What are you using to calc the PH off just the grain. that would be good to have.

 

[dobe12]

When doing all grain batches, especially just starting out, take plenty of notes with everything you are doing so you can really nail down your process and make it predictable. It will take you a few batches to really zero-in on a predictable method and process. Having said that...

Low efficiency can be due to the crush of the grain. Do you crush your own grain or buy it crushed? If you bought it crushed, did you get the grain for this batch from the same place as the other batch? +1! Most likely the culprit.

The thickness of the mash will also affect the efficiency. What ratio of water to grain did you use in each batch? Keeping track of that will help you figure out which works best. Typically a thicker mash will yield higher efficiency. I disagree. Thicker mash will convert quicker, but thinner mash will convert more fully. I'm actually conducting some tests on this theory. I'll be mashing different beers with different water/grain ratios and taking gravity readings every 5 minutes. I have my first test results in another thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/mash-conversion-experiment-475391/

^^^

 

[VladOfTrub]

"For example, the above recipe you posted combined with RO water will give you a mash pH of 5.2, which is close, but too low."

You might want to research optimum pH for malt enzymes and yeast.

OP..A malt spec sheet, depending on the malting co., will indicate pH of the grain. The test is performed with distilled water. Pale can be pH 5.5-5.7 depending on environment, grain variety, etc. Vienna is slightly lower. Crystal ranges 4.5 pH. Sauer Malz (Weyermann) 3.3 to 3.6 pH. Crisp Euro Pils is 5.6 pH with RO and no chemicals with a 20 minute acid rest at 105F. Potential extract of barley malt is 79 to 80%, wheat 83%, depending on the method used in the lab. A thick mash of 1 to 1.2 qts/lb creates the greatest overall extraction. A thinner mash produces more maltose and higher attenuation. A thick mash can jell up if the viscosity number of the malt is above 1.3. Next time brew the same recipe, leave out the sauer malz at first. Dough in with 95 to 110F water and let the mash rest for 20 minutes. Then, take a pH reading. Assume that sauer malz will reduce pH .1 each 1% of malt. If pH isn't in the park, add the sauer malz and rest until pH stabilizes. It's not best to start mashing above pH 6 or below pH 4.6. Beta and Alpha optimum pH are different. The optimum pH of Alpha I is different than Alpha II and so are their optimum temps. The highest extraction comes from decoction mashing. More starch is put into solution, giving enzymes more to work on. It's only the 2nd batch, it takes time to dial things in. Dumping hot water on malt gives a brewer a small pallette to work from when it comes to taking advantage of malt enzymes. Noonan's book is a good, easy to understand primer to read. Even though it has to do with Lager; enzymes, extraction and conversion are just that.

 

[MrHadack]

"For example, the above recipe you posted combined with RO water will give you a mash pH of 5.2, which is close, but too low."

You might want to research optimum pH for malt enzymes and yeast.

Curious why you say that-- everything I have ever seen says 5.3 - 5.6 as ideal for the mash, with a few places saying 5.2 might be acceptable but it's on the low end of things. The exception being tart beer styles but this isn't one of those.