ECY08 - Brasserie Blend

[maximep]

Hi all,
Looking to gain some insight on some characteristics and experiences related to this culture.

I was planning on doing a 10-day primary on a blonde table(ish) Saison (OG 1.050) with primary between 78 and 82 (trying to feel this out), and an additional 10 days at 68 in hopes I could get some decent flocculation from the buggers.

I'm wondering what people have experienced, generally, with this yeast. How restrained is ester production in the Mid 70's? Any difficulties with stuck fermentations? Had a fermentation that was more "tame" in phenol and ester production than you'd like? Too agressive? Flocc experience?

On an entirely different note, does anyone know what blend of yeasts this is?

 

[maximep]

Anyone?

 

[TNGabe]

Saw this yesterday and didn't answer because what I have to say isn't very helpful. I used this blend once. Here's what I've got from notes.

1.042 OG, 1.010 at 3 days, 1.008 at 1 week. Pitched at 78, don't see in my notes what temp rose to, so probably in 80s and off my stick on temp strip.

At that point, I blended the beer with the other half of the batch that I fermented with ECY03, which is ECY08 + Fantome brett. I don't have tasting notes, but I can remember that it was 'flat' next to the 03, which I had repitched a bunch and was very fruity/tropical. So I'm guessing the 08 is more on the peppery phenol side and less estery, at least compared to the 03. Flocculation was good. Hope that helps some.

 

[maximep]

Saw this yesterday and didn't answer because what I have to say isn't very helpful. I used this blend once. Here's what I've got from notes.

1.042 OG, 1.010 at 3 days, 1.008 at 1 week. Pitched at 78, don't see in my notes what temp rose to, so probably in 80s and off my stick on temp strip.

At that point, I blended the beer with the other half of the batch that I fermented with ECY03, which is ECY08 + Fantome brett. I don't have tasting notes, but I can remember that it was 'flat' next to the 03, which I had repitched a bunch and was very fruity/tropical. So I'm guessing the 08 is more on the peppery phenol side and less estery, at least compared to the 03. Flocculation was good. Hope that helps some.

Hey TNGabe, not at all unhelpful, this is just the sort of response I was looking for. Seems to attenuate relatively quickly by that measure, so stuck ferm does seem like an issue. Would you recommend pitching this high? I was planning on pitching at 70 and raising it to 84 over a 24 hour period. Do you think some more desireable levels of phenols and esters would develop with a higher fermentation temperature (obviously to a degree it will) or do you think this yeast is more on the tame side? By flat, I'm assuming you mean it doesn't have the depth of character that you desired? Anyways, massively useful and informative post, thanks for going through the time to check your notes. Much appreciated

 

[TNGabe]

Glad to share what I have. Yeah, when I said flat, i meant lacking in depth compared to 03. I don't think you'll see an activity below 75, I haven't with 03.

 

[ocluke]

I have a split 11 gallon batch (one carboy with ECY03, and the other with ECY08) 4 days into primary right now. I pitched late at night at 76F, and by the next morning when I woke up, it was roaring along at 84F. I immediately brought the temp back down to 77F and have kept it there. Maybe that was a mistake, but I am hoping to avoid an overpowering phenolic profile.

How did your batch go? I can report back here on my findings if it will be useful to you.

 

[sweetcell]

I can report back here on my findings if it will be useful to you.

please do!

i'm about to make a batch with ECY08. would love to hear your experiences. did you get a lot of phenols with those temps?

 

[Coff]

Here is a split batch I did over a year ago with ECY08, 565, and 3711.

http://riverwards.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-farmer-in-rye-saison.html

These were all fermented too cool, we had a long cold spell and I just couldnt jack up the temp on 3 fermenters like I normally could with 2 so take it all with a grain of salt. Ive used ECY08 a few times before and since and its just really not my favorite, but I enjoyed it most when ramped into the mid 80s and held there for 3 weeks.

 

[sweetcell]

my ECY08 experience:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM) 40.0%
6 lbs Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) 26.7%
2 lbs Munich (Dingemans) (5.5 SRM) 8.9%
2 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) 8.9%
1 lbs 4.0 oz Honey Malt (Gambrinus) (25.0 SRM) 5.6%
1 lbs Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) 4.4%
11.7 oz Caramel Malt - 30L (Briess) (30.0 SRM) 3.2%
8.0 oz Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) 2.2%
1.60 oz Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 34.0 IBUs

11 gal batch, half used for Conan APA and other half for saison/farmhouse

the ECY08 yeast, dated 4/22, was added to 1200ml of starter the day before. likely resulted in over-pitching. brewed on monday, 23 june 2014.

SAISION NOTES: OG 1.055. pitched yeast around 80*F. full krausen next morning somewhere above 80*F, by 8 pm that night (less than 24 hours after pitching) krausen had dropped. between warm temp and high pitch rates, this might be done. sample taken around day 3 or 4, with a reading around 1.014 - don't remember exactly but seemed disappointingly high. i started to worry about how fermetable my wort was. added a half pound of boiled raw sugar which got things going again. sample on day 8 (7/01) was 1.001 at 81*F, or 1.003 temp corrected. With sugar OG is 1.060, so ABV = 7.5%, 95% AA (77.33% actual). will leave it on heat until i leave for vacation in a few days. will likely bottle with brett brux.

tasting notes to follow... at some point.

 

[koopa]

I've brewed a couple of batches with ECY08 now. Both times I felt like I didn't get too much character from the yeast to be honest. Maybe some fruity esters if anything. Not much on the phenolic side, but that is probably due to the warm fermentation. Fermentations generally starting at 75F and ramping up to 84F over a few days, then holding at that temperature for 2 more weeks. Both batches had some candi syrup added and hit the 85% - 95% aa range. Batch 1 (brewed 2 years ago) hit 85% (in 3 weeks) and had received a 90 minute mash at 156F. Batch 2 (brewed 3 weeks ago) hit 95% (in 1 week) and had received a 75 minute mash at 145F. It also had 2x the amount of candi syrup that batch 1 had (9.5% vs. 4.75%). I prefer 3711 because of it's noticeable black pepper quality, but only in a beer where I want a noticeable black pepper quality. The 2 times I brewed Saisons with ECY08 I wasn't going for that.

 

[sweetcell]

tasting notes to follow... at some point.

i bottled most of the batch with a brett blend, but before adding the brett i bottled a few "clean". finally had one last night. dominant flavor is pepper, some but not a lot of fruitiness. very good, but not mind-blowing, saison yeast. i prefer my 3724 + 3711 blend, more balance and complexity... but ECY08 does make a nice saison.

 

[Wes440]

i bottled most of the batch with a brett blend, but before adding the brett i bottled a few "clean". finally had one last night. dominant flavor is pepper, some but not a lot of fruitiness. very good, but not mind-blowing, saison yeast. i prefer my 3724 + 3711 blend, more balance and complexity... but ECY08 does make a nice saison.

Just curious about your blending 3724 & 3711. Do you start with 3724 and then pitch 3711 after a few days, or after it stalls? Or perhaps just pitch them together?

I'm a huge fan of saisons so I'm always wanting to try new strains. I just brewed a dark winter saison with the ecy08 so I'll update this post with my 2 cents. Actually blended some ecy34 dirty dozen into one of the carboys so I'm curious as to what that will come out like.

I'm also really curious about the Fantome brett strain, ecy's farmhouse ale isolate. I haven't seen that one up yet.

 

[sweetcell]

Just curious about your blending 3724 & 3711. Do you start with 3724 and then pitch 3711 after a few days, or after it stalls? Or perhaps just pitch them together?

in a nutshell:
- build up a starter of 3724, crash, decant, pitch in the low 70's
- upon pitching, start heat ramping to upper 80's/low 90's (take 2-4 days to get there)
- when activity shows the slightest signs of slowing down, add boiled sugar (i.e. don't add to the boil, save it for this point). 0.5 to 1 pound per 5 gallon batch.
- wait for activity to subside completely (AKA for the 3724 to stall out)
- pitch a pack of 3711 in a 1.5 liter starter, no stir plate (or use stir plate only for first hour or two). starter should have same or slightly higher OG than that of the main (3724) batch. meanwhile, let the main 3724 batch cool to the low 70's.
- let the 3711 hit high krausen for a few hours, then pitch into the main batch
- hold in the 70's, start ramping to the upper 70's as activities slows

i realize this is a bit of a convoluted process so feel free to simplify.

 

[Wes440]

in a nutshell:
- build up a starter of 3724, crash, decant, pitch in the low 70's
- upon pitching, start heat ramping to upper 80's/low 90's (take 2-4 days to get there)
- when activity shows the slightest signs of slowing down, add boiled sugar (i.e. don't add to the boil, save it for this point). 0.5 to 1 pound per 5 gallon batch.
- wait for activity to subside completely (AKA for the 3724 to stall out)
- pitch a pack of 3711 in a 1.5 liter starter, no stir plate (or use stir plate only for first hour or two). starter should have same or slightly higher OG than that of the main (3724) batch. meanwhile, let the main 3724 batch cool to the low 70's.
- let the 3711 hit high krausen for a few hours, then pitch into the main batch
- hold in the 70's, start ramping to the upper 70's as activities slows

i realize this is a bit of a convoluted process so feel free to simplify.

Thanks for elaborating . I'll have to give that combo a try.

My first AG brew was a saison, I used WLP565 for that one, knew nothing about that strain then. Didn't even know to use a starter. That was a frustrating first brew.

I'm holding the ecy08 at around 85 for 7 days now, activity has slowed and it's still putting along. OG was at 1.083 and it's down to 1.013 as of yesterday, so it's attenuated pretty well. Too early to tell on the flavor profile it's going to give, especially in a dark wort.