Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
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Justibone
Well-Known Member
Not necessary.
Rule of thumb: when working with pre-packaged dry yeast, just pitch what ya got. When working with pre-packaged wet yeast, you can pitch what you got if you want to (especially into smaller batches, like Mr Beer sized batches), but it really is safer to go ahead and make a starter. When washing or re-using yeast, then you need to worry about overpitching, underpitching, etc. etc. etc.
So: using pre-packaged dry yeast? No worries for 4 gal vs. 5 gal.
agenthucky
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Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Not always true... You can overpitch if you use way too much yeast, or far more than recommended via Mr. Malty (like 1.5x+ their recommendations)... But, most of us find that what we're pitching in doesn't come close to that. Most of the time we're trying to get at least up to the recommended cell count...
I wouldn't pitch a full pack of yeast into a 1 gallon batch with an OG of <1.020. Well, except for when making a starter, but you're not going to drink THAT... Right?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
Not always true... You can overpitch if you use way too much yeast, or far more than recommended via Mr. Malty (like 1.5x+ their recommendations)... But, most of us find that what we're pitching in doesn't come close to that. Most of the time we're trying to get at least up to the recommended cell count...
I wouldn't pitch a full pack of yeast into a 1 gallon batch with an OG of <1.020. Well, except for when making a starter, but you're not going to drink THAT... Right?
well, this why why I said 'can't really'. At homebrewer levels it is almost impossible unless doing it is on purpose. the amount of yeast in packets, dry or wet, is nowhere near the optimal cell count. Even pitching a large starter still has room to grow. Overpitching matters more on the pro level.
a homebrewer would notice underpitching, but I have never heard a homebrewer say "Oh, gross, this beer was way overpitched". And 'overpitching' happens ALL time at the homebrew level. Ever just brew a beer right on top of one you just racked off of? This has a cell count way over what mr malty says to pitch. I have had some delicious beers made this way. You get a rather quick fermentation, but you won't notice any off flavors (maybe low on the esters). I've never had a problem with extra yeast, or autolysis at the homebrew level. In fact, BBR did an experiment about autolysis and came back with no definitive evidence.
let's not even get into the fact that a homebrewer has no easy way to measure the active cell count.
Lagers are triple pitched. High gravity beers doubled. You will strain yeast if they have so much food but so little numbers, I don't think the reverse provides any noticeable qualities at the homebrew level.
that said, why would you brew a gallon of 1.020 beer and pitching an $8 packet of yeast to it?
and with THAT said, why not try it?
Brewed my first beer last night using this method. I went with a scaled down version of Ed Wort's Haus Pale Ale. Hit my temps dead on and lost less than a degree over 60 mins (insulated with towels and a pillow). My OG ended up being 1.055-56 instead of 1.051. Could this have been from using a 4/5 version of the recipe? I don't fully understand the meaning of gravity yet.
One more question, somehow I got the idea that my sparge water should be 175 degrees when I beging my teabag sparge. Was I right or could I possibly have hurt the beer a little? I'm not sure how to calculate the temperature change for the teabagging process.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
If your sparge water is 175F before sparging, it will drop well below the 168-170 area that is considered a Mash Out for sparging. This is the optimal temperature but if it is below you will still be fine. The most important thing is that you rinse the grain to get the sugar that has already been converted. Raising the sparge to 170 will stop the enzymes from turning the startch into sugar. If you sparge (grains in at this point) with anything above that you risk the chance of extracting tannons, but for the short time we sparge (ten min) I don't think it is a huge deal.
ThickHead
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Alright DB....
Strike water is coming up to temp as I type this. I grabbed a couple 7.5 gal stainless steel Polar Ware pots (note: 3.5 gal strike water not deep enough in these pots to use the floating thermometer properly).
I am working on eschatz' Two-Hearted clone with your stove-top process tonight. I will document the adventure as well as share the results in eschatz' thread.
Strike water is coming up to temp as I type this. I grabbed a couple 7.5 gal stainless steel Polar Ware pots (note: 3.5 gal strike water not deep enough in these pots to use the floating thermometer properly).
I am working on eschatz' Two-Hearted clone with your stove-top process tonight. I will document the adventure as well as share the results in eschatz' thread.
ThickHead
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I took my first stab at using this process last night. The only significant variation in my process is that I used two 7.5 gallon brew pots which allowed me more flexibility with my total mash volume.
My grain bill was a total of 13 lbs (eschatz' Two-Hearted clone) and I decided to heat up 3.5 gallons of strike water. I over-estimated the temperature drop during dough-in and ended up about 5 degrees higher (155 F instead of 150 F) than I was targeting. To get the temperature where I wanted it I had to add another half gallon of water to the mash. So I ended up mashing with a water volume of 4 gallons.
As I was targeting 5.5 total gallons for the boil (which was my best guess for what my electric stove-top could boil) my sparge volume was 2.5 gallons (figuring on losing a gallon to absorption during the mash). I ended up with exactly 5.5 gallons for the boil. I crossed my fingers and turned the burner to high. Though it took a while my electric stove-top had no problem bring 5.5 gallons to a decent boil.
I lost about 1.5 gallons to evaporation during my 60 minute boil so I ended up with 4 gallons of wort to cool. After cooling and adding the wort to my fermentor, I topped off with 1 gallon of water to reach my target volume of 5 gallons. I took my OG reading and pitched my yeast.
I used Pro Mash for the first time so I could calculate water volumes and track my efficiency at the end of the brew session. I was targeting an OG of 1.064 and ended up with 1.065. If I am using (and reading) Pro Mash properly I ended up achieving 85% efficiency. So unless I am dead-wrong (which is quite probable) it seems one does not necessarily need to sacrifice efficiency using your all-grain stove-top process. Good news!
Cheers!
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I was targeting an OG of 1.064 and ended up with 1.065. If I am using (and reading) Pro Mash properly I ended up achieving 85% efficiency. So unless I am dead-wrong (which is quite probable) it seems one does not necessarily need to sacrifice efficiency using your all-grain stove-top process. Good news!
Cheers!
I get on average about 75%, and have reached up to 80% before (85 seems really high). SParging adds another 10% probably, and my addition of 5.2 stabilizer keeps my efficiency in the mid 70's.
ThickHead
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Maybe I just don't know how to read this. I think I have the recipe plugged in properly. But again, this is my first time using Pro Mash and I am not exactly certain.
Justibone
Well-Known Member
Excellent that your stovetop can handle that big of a boil... it's a good stove!
The best mine can do and remain "vigorous" is about 3 gal.
The best mine can do and remain "vigorous" is about 3 gal.
ThickHead
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I used Pro Mash for the first time so I could calculate water volumes and track my efficiency at the end of the brew session. I was targeting an OG of 1.064 and ended up with 1.065. If I am using (and reading) Pro Mash properly I ended up achieving 85% efficiency. So unless I am dead-wrong (which is quite probable) it seems one does not necessarily need to sacrifice efficiency using your all-grain stove-top process. Good news!
Cheers!
So I was messing around with BeerSmith today and plugged in my recipe. I am a bit more familiar with BeerSmith and actually prefer it over Pro Mash which I was using for the first time. BeerSmith estimated the SG of my recipe to be 1.066 at 70% efficiency. It seems more likely that my efficiency was probably about 70%. I could see probably getting up to 75% if I tweaked a few things. However, I doubt seriously that the 85% I thought I had achieved is very probable using this method on my stove-top.
cg17
Well-Known Member
Not always true... You can overpitch if you use way too much yeast, or far more than recommended via Mr. Malty (like 1.5x+ their recommendations)... But, most of us find that what we're pitching in doesn't come close to that. Most of the time we're trying to get at least up to the recommended cell count...
I wouldn't pitch a full pack of yeast into a 1 gallon batch with an OG of <1.020. Well, except for when making a starter, but you're not going to drink THAT... Right?
So if I were to pitch a whole packet of liquid into a 2.5-3 gallon wort, would I have any overpitching issues?
noggins
Well-Known Member
http://www.academy.com/index.php?pa...ng/turkey&start=0&selectedSKU=0265-02367-2500
yeah, I just posted that in another thread of mine but come on, $20 for a 7.5 gallon brewpot? There's no reason not to move to all-grain using the method described in this thread...hopefully buying mine tomorrow.
yeah, I just posted that in another thread of mine but come on, $20 for a 7.5 gallon brewpot? There's no reason not to move to all-grain using the method described in this thread...hopefully buying mine tomorrow.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
probably aluminum
noggins
Well-Known Member
definitely aluminum: "Heavy-gauge aluminum pot"
Justibone
Well-Known Member
All-grain is more work. There is more that can go wrong, it takes longer, and you can get a less-consistent result until you fine-tune your process. You also have more trub loss.
That being said, the cost is lower, and you have more control over the end product. So, all-grain has advantages.
You're right, though -- if you've been thinking of doing all-grain, there's no reason not to try it.
develope32
Member
What do you do different when you use you're burner to get a higher effeciency?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I don't know if that's really a fact. I think the sparge gives you better efficiency, but I don't think anyone has claimed higher efficiency from using the burner. What you want to do is keep it on low, and stir A LOT. This will help you maintain temp, but I wouldn't guarantee a higher efficiency. A more robust profile maybe, but a higher efficiency, I haven't seen 'proof' of it.
Also, to maintain temp, some people throw the mash tun in a heated oven.
I just used this method for the second time. I'm only doing 2.5-3 gallon batches. This way I get to brew more often, and thus try making more styles of beer (and if I end up with something that I don't like then it doesn't take as long to drink it). Now that I'm more comfortable with the basic stove-top process, and have recently acquired a refractometer with which to measure the specific gravity before/during/after the boil, I can comment on the efficiency of this setup.
Today I hit 78.6%! I figured it would be more like 60-70%, tops.
I did add a bit of an extra step though, which may or may not yield significant improvements in efficiency. After the 10-minute teabag-like "steep" of the grain bag in the sparge water, I then put my grain bag in a wire mesh collander spanning the top of my boil pot, and slowly poured the same sparge water back through the grain bed. I figured this would help me extract some more sugars, and would somewhat simulate what people do with those more expensive, complex setups using coolers and manifolds, etc. I just used a quart-sized pyrex measuring cup for this, and poured it slowly quart by quart. The other reason I did this is that I was worried about really stirring up the grains in the "steeping" step, since supposedly this yields extraction of tannins, which can cause bitterness/off-flavors in the beer.
I did a "mash out" step prior to the sparge as well, so this may have slightly boosted efficiency. It's such an easy extra thing to do on the stove top.
Even with these extra efforts, the entire brewing process still just took about 5 hrs, including initial cleaning/sanitizing, and cleanup afterwards. I'm loving the stovetop all grain life! :rockin:
Today I hit 78.6%! I figured it would be more like 60-70%, tops.
I did add a bit of an extra step though, which may or may not yield significant improvements in efficiency. After the 10-minute teabag-like "steep" of the grain bag in the sparge water, I then put my grain bag in a wire mesh collander spanning the top of my boil pot, and slowly poured the same sparge water back through the grain bed. I figured this would help me extract some more sugars, and would somewhat simulate what people do with those more expensive, complex setups using coolers and manifolds, etc. I just used a quart-sized pyrex measuring cup for this, and poured it slowly quart by quart. The other reason I did this is that I was worried about really stirring up the grains in the "steeping" step, since supposedly this yields extraction of tannins, which can cause bitterness/off-flavors in the beer.
I did a "mash out" step prior to the sparge as well, so this may have slightly boosted efficiency. It's such an easy extra thing to do on the stove top.
Even with these extra efforts, the entire brewing process still just took about 5 hrs, including initial cleaning/sanitizing, and cleanup afterwards. I'm loving the stovetop all grain life! :rockin:
electronjunkie
Well-Known Member
If your bag cannot fit your pot inside you will suffer from lower efficiency. A smaller bag will restrict the amount of water that contacts your grain.
I am loosely quoting a wise biab sage on the aussie forums.
Your sack may be plenty big. and you may have another problem thats hurting your efficiency.
noggins
Well-Known Member
haaaahahahahahahhaaaa
+1
OP
OP
One possible scenario: If your stovetop burner cannot handle boiling ~7 gallons of wort, then you cannot use as much water and you will suffer loss in efficiency. More water during your mash and/or sparge can result in higher efficiency, depending on process.
I would like to note again, though, that over-sparging can result in tannin extraction so find what works best for your system.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
For me, I only have a 5.5 gallon kettle, when you consider that water expands in volume when heated, there really is only about 5-5.25 gallons boiling. I sparge with an extra gallon or so. I say extra because it is more than my kettle can hold, but is not any more water than I'd sparge with if I had a bigger kettle. Once I start my boil, I put the extra wort into a smaller kettle and bring it to a slow boil. It still boils for the same time, but I add it into the bigger kettle throughout the first 30-60 minutes. This lets me get closer to 5 gallons at the end.
And I stir when I sparge and don't notice any more tannins. I only sparge for 10 minutes though, and don't run the water through again.
OP
OP
Tannin extraction is often due to a combination of high sparge temperatures (above 168°F for the actual mash temp) and too much water. Some people actually record their run-off gravity and shut it off if it gets too low. That won't work with this method, however.
I generally go to about 6 gallons when using this method, adjust my hops up a bit to account for that (beersmith works ok for calculating IBUs if you account for the boil amount) and top off with water at the end to my usual 5.5 gallons.
I generally go to about 6 gallons when using this method, adjust my hops up a bit to account for that (beersmith works ok for calculating IBUs if you account for the boil amount) and top off with water at the end to my usual 5.5 gallons.
I have had a question after my first time doing this method. I had a lot of trouble lifting the grain bag out to drain it. The angle was really strange, and that bag is pretty heavey.
Any advice on how to make it easier? Could I use 2 bags? I ended up just lifting it out and draining in another container mostly.
BTW I got close to 80% efficiency I think on my first try. I don't have a reliable way to measure the volume on my pot, but my best guess put me at about 78%.
Any advice on how to make it easier? Could I use 2 bags? I ended up just lifting it out and draining in another container mostly.
BTW I got close to 80% efficiency I think on my first try. I don't have a reliable way to measure the volume on my pot, but my best guess put me at about 78%.
ThickHead
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You may want to pull your pot off the stove and place it on the floor or on a stool before you lift the grain bag out. I use a third pot to actually drain my grains after the "sparge" (or this variation of one). You can see how I use a third pot with a colander in the photo below.
Volume can easily be calculated using a tape measure if you have no other means. The formula for calculating the volume of a cylinder is:
pi * radius2 * height = volume (using inches, this formula will give you a value in cubic inches) Here is a good calculator.
Once you have a value in cubic inches, you can convert cubic inches to gallons using the following conversion: 231 cubic inches = 1 US gal.
I've been using this method for sometime now, and I wanted chime in and say that I've recently built a heat stick, and this reduced my brew session by about an hour. It's something to try out if you're comfortable with the idea of a heat stick.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I feel compelled to chime in and give some sort of safety warning. A heat stick requires you to put electrical equipment in water, this can be very dangerous if you are not comfortable building electronics and keeping it waterproof.
Yep yep, diy at your own risk. Just sayin that most people in this thread are gonna be doing their heating on a stove and this little addition could save quite a bit of time. My first brew day with a heatstick took 3 hours.
djt17
Well-Known Member
The addition of a heatstick to my stove top brewing was the best thing I did to speed up my brew day.
OP
OP
Draining into another container and adding back is fine. I also used to let the last bit drain in a bowl while I added the extract and then added that little bit to the mix to get the most out of the grain.
I have a big colander that works wonders...then I can just set it on top of a pot or bucket and let 'er drain.
i have been looking all over for a colander big enough, but haven't found one yet.
I like the idea of putting the pot on the ground to get some more leverage on holding the bag. only thing i would be worried about would be spilling when i'm moving it to the floor. And burning my floor, but I think a few folded towels under neath would do the trick.
I probably will just drain for a few seconds to get the bulk at first, then put the bag in a spare pot.
I like the idea of putting the pot on the ground to get some more leverage on holding the bag. only thing i would be worried about would be spilling when i'm moving it to the floor. And burning my floor, but I think a few folded towels under neath would do the trick.
I probably will just drain for a few seconds to get the bulk at first, then put the bag in a spare pot.
OP
OP
Drain the bulk of it and then even a small plastic strainer (just to keep it off the bottom) inside an additional pot or bucket will allow it to drain.
Yeah i need to find away to keep it off the bottom. I was using a little pail that I generally have star-san in, but it was sitting in the liquid run off, so I doubt I got as much out of it as I could.
To be honest though I am not going to put too much more effort into upgrading the process. Your method is simple and effective, and I thought that living in my small studio apartment that AG was more or less out of the question. I love looking through peoples photos of their 3-tier set ups, and being jealous, but knowing that I am doing basically the same process in my small kitchen
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
A bit of loss in efficiency is no biggie, just add a bit more base grain. You're saving money overall even without a great efficiency.
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