Easy & Cheap Stainless Vent Hood

[NewBrewB]

This thread got way more technical than necessary.

This is not some 24x7 HVAC system. At the most, you would run this fan for a 90-min boil. A big fan meant for steam will push the air fast enough that it is outside the building before it starts to condense/drip.

The Original Post was about making a cheap and easy solution for venting steam.

Let's not overcomplicate it and intimidate home brewers who click on this thread because of the title.....just my 2 cents.

 

[stickyfinger]

I wonder which of these online calculators is reliable? The first one seems to be good, as you can calculate the static pressure for each fitting/run in your system at a given CFM and then add them up and calculate your system SP:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...VeO0Tz_ZQuLcAKZ5A&sig2=5QNptEF6m9LuzIhMA44glA

The second is simpler to use, more limited obviously.

http://bry-air.com/resources/utilities/static-pressure-calculator/

Both give much higher SP than estimating them using the page I was using before that didn't take into account CFM in the SP calculation.

There's also one here from a woodworking guy's calculations for dust management that could be good:

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/staticcalc.xls

They all are pretty close for the 6" duct, but they vary some when I put in 4" duct.

I guess the proof is certainly in the pudding. Buy big and you probably don't have to worry unless you are doing a lot of crazy turns and long runs.

 

[stickyfinger]

This thread got way more technical than necessary.

This is not some 24x7 HVAC system. At the most, you would run this fan for a 90-min boil. A big fan meant for steam will push the air fast enough that it is outside the building before it starts to condense/drip.

The Original Post was about making a cheap and easy solution for venting steam.

Let's not overcomplicate it and intimidate home brewers who click on this thread because of the title.....just my 2 cents.

Yeah, you're totally right. Let's bag this discussion on this thread. If anyone is interested, we can start up a discussion of ventilation static pressures somewhere else! It's totally unnecessary to do these calculations for your system. If something worked for someone else, it will probably work for you. I think most people realize that.

 

[schematix]

Buy bigger is always the answer that gives the best result... Until someone wants it cheaper.

I can agree to take the technical discussion to another thread.

I would say in summary:
-don't use the super cheap inline fans. You need the big blowers. 4" minimum. 6 or even 8" preferred.
-limit elbows
-minimize distance if possible
-expect some condensation. Just dry it out when you're done.
-speed control is probably unnecessary unless you buy the larger blowers and have a huge excess of power.

Am I missing any other key points ?

 

[jsprinceiii]

Buy bigger is always the answer that gives the best result... Until someone wants it cheaper.

I can agree to take the technical discussion to another thread.

I would say in summary:
-don't use the super cheap inline fans. You need the big blowers. 4" minimum. 6 or even 8" preferred.
-limit elbows
-minimize distance if possible
-expect some condensation. Just dry it out when you're done.
-speed control is probably unnecessary unless you buy the larger blowers and have a huge excess of power.

Am I missing any other key points ?

Make sure to have a source of "Make-up Air".
This is not a technical requirement, instead is a "Health/Life" requirement.
Over the years, the rule of thumb was add if over 300CFM.
With todays houses, I would recommend it with as small as 150CFM.
Carbon Monoxide is not something to play with, and in most homes, without a
source for make-up air, you will be pulling air from your furnace/water heater
chimneys/vents.
Maybe even add a CO detector near the brewing area room.

 

[theck]

Make sure to have a source of "Make-up Air".
This is not a technical requirement, instead is a "Health/Life" requirement.
Over the years, the rule of thumb was add if over 300CFM.
With todays houses, I would recommend it with as small as 150CFM.
Carbon Monoxide is not something to play with, and in most homes, without a
source for make-up air, you will be pulling air from your furnace/water heater
chimneys/vents.
Maybe even add a CO detector near the brewing area room.

Would a simple fan suffice? Would it be best to open a window for example? or can it be just in the room?

 

[jsprinceiii]

Would a simple fan suffice? Would it be best to open a window for example? or can it be just in the room?

That is a hard question to answer.
However..
Needing to go "Big" is not necessarily the correct answer.
Opening a window, should work..

Safety should be our #1 requirement, with easy and cheap the second.
Every house would be different.

Research..Here is an interesting read that I refer many people to..
http://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-ventilation-aen-209/

Make-up air, not only increases efficiency of ventilation, it safely allows inbound fresh air back into a room, reducing negative pressure, or simply not pulling air from chimney flu, cracks in wall, ceilings, electrical outlets, leaky windows etc...

Many new homes are already designed with a 14" or larger makeup air source, however it is not a requirement.

I currently have a 390CFM fan venting 2 20Gallon kettles (back to back) no moisture, and over a 4 hour period, maybe a teaspoon of condensate on the hood. I have about $600.00 invested.
My family's safety trumped all.

 

[NewBrewB]

Electric brewing doesn't emit carbon monoxide. Don't most propane brewers do it outside?

 

[theck]

Electric brewing doesn't emit carbon monoxide. Don't most propane brewers do it outside?

I was wondering too, but think they are talking about the make up air and how it can cause issues with carbon monoxide?

 

[stickyfinger]

The issue is where your makeup air is coming from. If your chimney is the source of (unplanned) makeup air, you can pull in exhaust fumes and kill yourself.

 

[jsprinceiii]

The issue is where your makeup air is coming from. If your chimney is the source of (unplanned) makeup air, you can pull in exhaust fumes and kill yourself.

Correct.
This is not about electric brewing. Specifically without make-up, you risk
pulling CO gas from existing flu's, even further it is possible to pull sewer gas
from drains.

You should have make-up air, and have enough of it. Installing an 800CFM
fan and cracking a window are examples of what not to do..
I am all for Low cost, however do not compromise your health for low cost.

 

[h22lude]

Correct.
This is not about electric brewing. Specifically without make-up, you risk
pulling CO gas from existing flu's, even further it is possible to pull sewer gas
from drains.

You should have make-up air, and have enough of it. Installing an 800CFM
fan and cracking a window are examples of what not to do..
I am all for Low cost, however do not compromise your health for low cost.

I'm new to this make up air stuff. For my situation what is the best way to get make up air?

I'll be brewing on the second floor in my bathroom with a 540CFM fan blowing on my bedroom window. The bathroom has two doors that will be open to the house.

 

[schematix]

Would a simple fan suffice? Would it be best to open a window for example? or can it be just in the room?

No a simple fan will not be able to direct that much steam outside. You really need a hood to collect all of the steam, and then something to direct it all outside.

 

[schematix]

I'm new to this make up air stuff. For my situation what is the best way to get make up air?

I'll be brewing on the second floor in my bathroom with a 540CFM fan blowing on my bedroom window. The bathroom has two doors that will be open to the house.

An open window is fine as long as there is a free path for air to flow. Ideally your make up air is far from your exhaust so you don't draw back in what you just tried to send out.

 

[jsprinceiii]

An open window is fine as long as there is a free path for air to flow. Ideally your make up air is far from your exhaust so you don't draw back in what you just tried to send out.

Agree, permitting..
your not venting out the same window.
The amount of fresh air, matches or exceeds the air leaving the structure.

 

[theck]

No a simple fan will not be able to direct that much steam outside. You really need a hood to collect all of the steam, and then something to direct it all outside.

Mean to put make up air in

 

[Hello]

Speaking about condensation, is it acceptable to have this bowl/fan setup directly over the boil kettle or would k risk condensation dripping into my kettle? While boiling it's not a huge risk but while cooling, when the vent fan is also off, is what I'm concerned about.

 

[h22lude]

An open window is fine as long as there is a free path for air to flow. Ideally your make up air is far from your exhaust so you don't draw back in what you just tried to send out.

I can definitely do that.

If this was set up in a heated basement, how would you achieve this without letting cold air in?

 

[stickyfinger]

I can definitely do that.

If this was set up in a heated basement, how would you achieve this without letting cold air in?

I have been debating this question. I will be building a replacement acrylic window that I can cut holes into for the 6" exhaust and a 4" intake hole. I will likely poke out a piece of 4" PVC pipe and put on a 90 elbow and an additional piece of pipe so that I am drawing in fresh air that is separated in space from my exhausted air. The air coming into the basement will be within a few feet of the air going out, so it should be the most direct path, from the window fresh intake to the brew area and back out the exhaust. i think this should reduce the amount of heated air that is vented to the outside.

 

[schematix]

I only turn the ventilation on during the boil, and for a few minutes afterwards. During that time the air temperature in the basement fluctuates. That's just the way its going to be. But again this is a temporary thing.

 

[h22lude]

The venting window is on one wall and I have another window on another wall that I can open for make-up air so it is all contained in my bedroom. So for the hour boil I would have both windows open but I can close the bedroom door to keep the cold just in the bedroom and bathroom. It shouldn't be too bad

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

It looks like you are using propane cookers in your basement. Chances are, that is illegal and potentially dangerous. Having a propane tank at all indoors is illegal. Whatever the details, if you are burning anything, combustion gasses must be vented along with the H20 vapor. The gasses could kill you. If you are venting, you need "makeup air", meaning fresh air from outside. Your blower is creating a negative pressure. Sometimes the house itself acts as a plenum and you may have vents for combustion air in your basement that would work. You can check with local building officials or a licensed HVAC contractor. If you are heating with electricity, that is a different story, but the makeup air is still necessary. I would hate to see a fellow homebrewer endanger anyone.

 

[Hello]

It looks like you are using propane cookers in your basement. Chances are, that is illegal and potentially dangerous. Having a propane tank at all indoors is illegal. Whatever the details, if you are burning anything, combustion gasses must be vented along with the H20 vapor. The gasses could kill you. If you are venting, you need "makeup air", meaning fresh air from outside. Your blower is creating a negative pressure. Sometimes the house itself acts as a plenum and you may have vents for combustion air in your basement that would work. You can check with local building officials or a licensed HVAC contractor. If you are heating with electricity, that is a different story, but the makeup air is still necessary. I would hate to see a fellow homebrewer endanger anyone.

He absolutely said he has a 5500 watt element. That's not propane. Best I can see is he is trying to understand the right way to do things with his vent fan, makeup air and heating element.

 

[h22lude]

It looks like you are using propane cookers in your basement. Chances are, that is illegal and potentially dangerous. Having a propane tank at all indoors is illegal. Whatever the details, if you are burning anything, combustion gasses must be vented along with the H20 vapor. The gasses could kill you. If you are venting, you need "makeup air", meaning fresh air from outside. Your blower is creating a negative pressure. Sometimes the house itself acts as a plenum and you may have vents for combustion air in your basement that would work. You can check with local building officials or a licensed HVAC contractor. If you are heating with electricity, that is a different story, but the makeup air is still necessary. I would hate to see a fellow homebrewer endanger anyone.

This for me? Why do you think I'm using propane? Not being rude, just find it funny you automatically went to propane when I didn't mention anything in my last post about either lol I did mention earlier in this thread I have a 5500W element.

He absolutely said he has a 5500 watt element. That's not propane. Best I can see is he is trying to understand the right way to do things with his vent fan, makeup air and heating element.

Yup, just trying to figure out the best route for me now being in my bathroom. I was never thinking about exhausting before. I thought my bathroom fan would be good enough but during my test run, it wasn't. I think venting out the steam with the 540 CFM fan and opening another window in my bedroom would be good for make-up air

 

[schematix]

I gave the ventilation system a formal test yesterday (made a marzen). No moisture or smell issues at all. Only issue was the plate chiller clogged right when I diverted wort to the fermenters.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423413788.580274.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423413714.474075.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423413691.558903.jpg

 

[h22lude]

Very nice! You may have said it before....what fan are you using?

 

[theck]

What do you use for makeup air too, just curious.

 

[theck]

Not to get off track but was just reading that 400 CFM doesn't require makeup air? Can anyone confirm or deny this? I read it in a few places and they say in excess of 400?

 

[schematix]

I am using the Vortex 6" fan (449CFM) off of amazon. Make-up air is from a window about 15' down the same wall.

This basement turned out to be just about the most ideal area I could have imagined (and a big reason why we bought this house).

 

[jsprinceiii]

Not to get off track but was just reading that 400 CFM doesn't require makeup air? Can anyone confirm or deny this? I read it in a few places and they say in excess of 400?

This entirely depends on several factors.
How old is your house (is it well insulated)
How many vented appliances do you currently have
(Stove, Furnace, water heater, Fireplace, close dryer(electric or gas), radon mitigation, etc..)
How large is your house
Are there other "vent" fans in the house

Best to talk to an HVAC company. They can test your home, and determine how much pressure will place your home
into a negative pressure. You do not want negative pressure, or at least need to minimize it.

Here are a couple descriptions, that might explain it better..
http://www.rede3.com/Does_my_house_suck.html
http://www.rheem.com/docs/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=d053fecb-6012-47a0-88be-f33f0d073b6b

 

[schematix]

This is a good thing to have.

 

[schematix]

if anyone is interested i finally posted pictures of my build, after 5 months of design and construction.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/another-basement-brewery-build-515669/

 

[stickyfinger]

Do you guys think it would be a problem to go with a 20 quart bowl for my 20 gallon kettles? The 20 qt bowl I saw is about 19" diameter x about 6" deep. My kettle is almost 18" in diameter. I thought maybe I could reduce the size of the hood a bit and still get good extraction.

I just got my 20 qt SS bowl in the mail today:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UB9D9I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It is is almost exactly the same diameter as my 20 gallon Concord pot. The flat part on the bottom is about 8" diamter, so I can make a nice hole pretty easily. I hope that it can catch all of the steam without having to me mounted super close. I'll try to put at high as I can (maybe around 16-20") and see if it works.

 

[schematix]

I just got my 20 qt SS bowl in the mail today:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UB9D9I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It is is almost exactly the same diameter as my 20 gallon Concord pot. The flat part on the bottom is about 8" diamter, so I can make a nice hole pretty easily. I hope that it can catch all of the steam without having to me mounted super close. I'll try to put at high as I can (maybe around 16-20") and see if it works.

My 22" bowl covering my 20" pot barely captures everything at 14". Good luck! I think this is overall a great cheap and dirty design but it would be great to have more empirical data on how well it works! Let us know how it goes.

 

[stickyfinger]

My 22" bowl covering my 20" pot barely captures everything at 14". Good luck! I think this is overall a great cheap and dirty design but it would be great to have more empirical data on how well it works! Let us know how it goes.

Yeah, but I have only one elbow AND a man-size fan... can't wait to try it!

 

[h22lude]

Bought everything I need. Going to be jerry-rigged until I get into a new place but it will work.

Bought a plastic tote box with folding lid for the hood, 90° elbow with 6 to 4 reducer and 20 feet of soft pipe. I won't need 20 feet but that is the best length they had for me. I just need to cut a hole in the tote and screw the 4 wooden legs. Great thing about this is, when I'm done it will all fit in the tote for storage lol

 

[stickyfinger]

It will be interesting to see how it works. Post some pics when done.

 

[h22lude]

So here it is, mostly put together. I just need to attach the soft duct which I will do when I use it. I wanted to make it as portable as possible. Stand is very stable. It sits at a perfect height over the pot. The tops fold down and surround the pot even more (that was a happy accident). I think this is a great solution for those that can't hang anything.

 

[stickyfinger]

Nice work. Should work well.

 

[stickyfinger]

I finally got around to mounting my fan, ducting and hood. I decided to replace my basement window with an acrylic window and poke the 6" duct through that. It was easy to cut with a jigsaw. I mounted the fan between my hood/elbow and my exit point. The fan has way more than enough suction to collect all of the steam from my BK. I did get condensation drips from my fan housing, so I need to install either a drip tray (my makeshift bread pan tray is temporary) or install a condensate line into the bottom of the fan and seal up the rest of it. I initially taped the seam going around the fan housing, but I decided to take all of that off, as water was dripping through the tape. When I'm done with the brew, I go outside and stuff a duct plug in the end so that no cold air comes into my basement and to keep out animals, etc. I'm still debating adding a makeup air hole either in the same window (with a tube extending along the house to separate it a bit from the exhaust duct) or putting in another acrylic window across the basement with a small pluggable duct channel in it. For now, I guess I'm pulling makeup air from leaks in my basement and some from my upstairs.

I mounted the mixing bowl to the elbow with a take off flange from Lowe's that looked very similar to this:

The flange has a sticky, foam gasket that I just stuck onto the top. I should probably seal it off with some food-grade silicone, but there was no moisture buildup whatsoever on that part, so it seems fine as-is.