Dunkelweizen Disaster

[goofiefoot]

I got inspired by Jamil's DW article in BYO and set off to brew a "quick" beer for my empty kegerator. I've already detailed the problems with my 56% efficiency thread, but this is more of a taste issue.

I fermented the beer for 10 days at 62° from 1.044 to 1.012 and racked directly into a sanitized keg. I tasted the hydrometer sample and it was nice - malty and fresh. I hadn't cold-crashed, and noticed a large amount of chunks suspended in the carboy traveling through the racking cane into my keg, especially as I got down to the bottom. I went ahead and sealed it up, pressurized, and dropped into my kegerator.

The more I thought about all those chunks, the more it bothered me, so 2 days later I rigged up some cheesecloth over my autosiphon and racked from one keg to another. This is where I ran into problems.

The whole time I was racking, I had bubbles in the line - a lot of bubbles. Not sure if this was CO2 or not, but I had a pretty good "head" on the liquid in the keg by the time I got close to filling it. When the siphon petered out, I realized there was still a good deal of beer left in the bottom of the original keg (probably about a quart or more). Not wanting to waste it and not being able to draw it out with the siphon, I decided to "carefully" pour out the remainder from keg to keg, trying to avoid transferring chunks. Not an easy task, and there was a good deal of splashing.

Frustrated, but willing to continue the process, I sealed it up, pressurized it, and threw it back in the kegerator. I waited a few days and started force-carbing it. I tasted it a couple days ago.

So, the taste is strange. It's not necessarily BAD - I don't gag or anything, but it's got an almost vegetable broth quality to it. Maybe the color and cloudiness add to that perception, but it just tastes a little bland. The malty character I tasted before has all but disappeared. It's not supposed to be a bitter beer, but I get almost no hop character. It's just kinda funky. I ran off about 1.5 pints to get rid of the bottom funk, then ended up drinking 2 pints. The 2nd pint was noticeably better tasting, but not great.

So, is my poor efficiency the culprit? Oxidation? Infection? Is this what dunkelweizen is supposed to taste like?

 

[smiths9312]

I got inspired by Jamil's DW article in BYO and set off to brew a "quick" beer for my empty kegerator. I've already detailed the problems with my 56% efficiency thread, but this is more of a taste issue.

I fermented the beer for 10 days at 62° from 1.044 to 1.012 and racked directly into a sanitized keg. I tasted the hydrometer sample and it was nice - malty and fresh. I hadn't cold-crashed, and noticed a large amount of chunks suspended in the carboy traveling through the racking cane into my keg, especially as I got down to the bottom. I went ahead and sealed it up, pressurized, and dropped into my kegerator.

The more I thought about all those chunks, the more it bothered me, so 2 days later I rigged up some cheesecloth over my autosiphon and racked from one keg to another. This is where I ran into problems.

The whole time I was racking, I had bubbles in the line - a lot of bubbles. Not sure if this was CO2 or not, but I had a pretty good "head" on the liquid in the keg by the time I got close to filling it. When the siphon petered out, I realized there was still a good deal of beer left in the bottom of the original keg (probably about a quart or more). Not wanting to waste it and not being able to draw it out with the siphon, I decided to "carefully" pour out the remainder from keg to keg, trying to avoid transferring chunks. Not an easy task, and there was a good deal of splashing.

Frustrated, but willing to continue the process, I sealed it up, pressurized it, and threw it back in the kegerator. I waited a few days and started force-carbing it. I tasted it a couple days ago.

So, the taste is strange. It's not necessarily BAD - I don't gag or anything, but it's got an almost vegetable broth quality to it. Maybe the color and cloudiness add to that perception, but it just tastes a little bland. The malty character I tasted before has all but disappeared. It's not supposed to be a bitter beer, but I get almost no hop character. It's just kinda funky. I ran off about 1.5 pints to get rid of the bottom funk, then ended up drinking 2 pints. The 2nd pint was noticeably better tasting, but not great.

So, is my poor efficiency the culprit? Oxidation? Infection? Is this what dunkelweizen is supposed to taste like?

It could be any number of things. I don't consider a Dunkelweizen as a "quick" beer - they usually ferment much longer and have a lagering period. They usually ferment much colder too. Is this a faux lager? I wouldn't have done the cheesecloth filtration or poured from one container to another like that.

Your flavor profile could be DMS caused by covered boil pot, failure to boil adequately, or infection.

 

[moosetav]

should've let it sit in the first keg. vegetables makes me think DMS. dunkelweizen does not taste like vegetables.

 

[goofiefoot]

I just followed the instructions from Jamil's article for fermentation temperature and length. I never cover my boil pot, and I got my desired end volume after a 60 min boil. I was not happy about the second transfer debacle, and while I'm confident of my sanitation, I'm not ruling out infection.

 

[goofiefoot]

Just read up on DMS and its causes and attributes. I guess it's a possibility with this one, but I'm not convinced. The beer's more bland than anything. However, if it is DMS, is there any way to correct the problem?

What could oxidation bring to the table here?

Is it possible that I just have an excess of yeast gunk at the bottom of the keg and that it could get better with time, or as it's "flushed out"?

 

[smiths9312]

Bland or stale sounds like oxydation that would have occurred when you introduced so much O2 into the beer.

I don't keg, but on the times I've accidentally introduced more O2 into a beer, I've added a cup or two of sugar to the carboy. This will restart the yeast and the CO2 will drive off the oxygen. That's my theory, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

What yeast did you use?

I have an 8 gallon batch of that recipe fermenting, and will keg it Friday or Saturday. I overshot my gravity (1.062), so it will be STRONG, borderline Weissenbock strong.

It looks VERY dark (much darker than my last batch of Dunkelweiss), but other than that, looks fine right now.

Airlock sniffs seem OK, too.

 

[ghpeel]

I did Jamil's Dunkelweizen and it took a lot longer to settle down that I had anticipated. In fact, I was really unimpressed with the beer for about the first 4-5 weeks in the bottle. Then it turned FREAKIN GREAT! It was weirdly spicy flavored in the beginning, but it settled down into a wonderful brew.

So my advice is to lager it for 3-4 weeks. I bet it will be a different beer altogether then. Mine went from bland into a dark-fruit & coffee-toned, malty, delicious brew.

 

[mikeysab]

I hate asking noob questions but what does BIAB stand for? I've been seeing it around a lot lately and can't figure it out

 

[ghpeel]

"Brew In A Bag" -- look around here for threads devoted to the technique.

Basically, its a technique that the Australian home brewers came up with for doing all grain very simply and easily. You put your grain in a huge, fine mesh bag, then "steep" that bag in your mash water for the duration of the mash. You then pull the bag out and boil your wort as normal.

I use a version of the technique and LOVE IT. You can do all grain with less than $15 worth of equipment. Message me if you want my exact tools & setup. Or look around here for "Deathbrewer's Stove Top All Grain" thread.

 

[goofiefoot]

I did Jamil's Dunkelweizen and it took a lot longer to settle down that I had anticipated. In fact, I was really unimpressed with the beer for about the first 4-5 weeks in the bottle. Then it turned FREAKIN GREAT! It was weirdly spicy flavored in the beginning, but it settled down into a wonderful brew.

So my advice is to lager it for 3-4 weeks. I bet it will be a different beer altogether then. Mine went from bland into a dark-fruit & coffee-toned, malty, delicious brew.

Good to know. I'm hoping this is the case. I haven't touched it since the first tasting, so I'll just leave it in the kegerator at 40° and revisit it later. My wife's birthday party is at the end of the month, so I'm hoping it will be fine for that.

Maybe following smiths direction, should I go ahead and disconnect from gas and purge it a few times to make sure any oxygen in solution is removed?

 

[Nyxator]

I'm guessing it's because of the low efficiency, personally. Did you ever pin down that problem? I was having huge efficiency problems on any beers with a large portion of wheat in the grist, and I narrowed it down to milling problems. I know at least a few people around here gap their mill a little narrower for wheat. I simply can't use my LHBS grain crush for wheat beers.

A lot of my wheat beers that came out with bad efficiency tasted like you described. Aging never improved them, and I always drank them as fresh as possible. Since you likely oxygenated your beer when racking from one keg to another, I would definitely drink this batch as soon as possible.

I also disagree with the sentiment that dunkelweizens should be aged. Weizenbock, maybe, but not a dunkelweizen.

 

[ghpeel]

I also disagree with the sentiment that dunkelweizens should be aged. Weizenbock, maybe, but not a dunkelweizen.

I would totally agree with this in theory, but mine definitely needed another 3-4 weeks after it was bottle carbed to become good. I dunno why.... And I agree that my efficiency goes down with wheat a bit too. My LHBS double crushes my grain and it still drops, from around 80% normally to maybe 70% if there's 50+% wheat in the recipe.