Dumb newbie question

[xfevv]

So I'm on my third brew and so far have just done extract brewing which I have enjoyed. I'm really just curious what the difference is between extract and all grain? I understand the difference in process, etc but what are the benefits of all grain, if any, over extract? Is mostly greater flexibility...?

Thanks for entertaining a newbie

 

[aggiejay06]

You definitely get an extreme amount of flexibility. You essentially can create a unique brew that's 100% yours because you have an impact on every step of the process, including the mash. That's why I started doing it. Even if you design your own recipe, but you use an extract, it's still got the characteristics imparted on it by the company creating the extract.

Plus it's more fun!

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I think that most will agree with your thought that it allows for more flexibility. You can brew AWESOME beers with extract if your process is good. You can make [almost] anything you want with extract.

I personally like both. I do AG about 90% of the time and extract 10%. Both have their place. I like the challenge of AG and I've had good luck with it. It's a lot of fun. Things to consider...

- Do you have 5 hours to brew (roughly for AG)?
- Do you like to be challenged or prefer to keep it simple?
- Do you want to have a broader selection of ingredients to 'fine-tune' your brews or can you brew everything you want with extracts?

Notice that I didn't ask anything about the actual quality of the beer? 99.9% of that consideration is all based on process, not ingredients.

 

[Boleslaus]

I just started doing partial mashes recently and actually brewed two beers earlier this week. While I can't comment on AG, I will say that even with PM you have a lot more control over the entire process. Like aggiejay said, you have much more flexibility. Also there are certain grains that cannot just be steeped like in an extract brew, so it allows you to use different grains also. Unfortunately where I live now, I cannot do AG (apartment), but I've been using a smaller Igloo cooler to do partial mashes.

+1 to more fun than extract!

 

[Brandonovich]

I saw an immediate and drastic improvement in the quality of my beer when I switched to all grain. I know I will get people slamming me on this like I do every time, but that is my experience both when I brewed many years ago, and when I started up again last year. The beer tasted much better, and I really enjoyed brewing a lot more with all grain. I would never go back other than a batch here or there.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

@ Boleslaus: I have a buddy in my local club that does AG brewing in his apartment with a small scale, HERM system. It's pretty impressive.

I bet you could make it happen...

 

[BendBrewer]

Think of spaghetti sauce. You can take a can of Ragu or higher quality commercial brand and add mushrooms, peppers and sausage and maybe a few extra spices or pureed carrots and make a damn good plate of pasta that you would be happy to serve to anyone. But you can't take anything out that is already there.

Or you can go to the store and buy fresh tomatoes, onions and herbs and have complete control of the entire process and create something that is all yours.

Either way you have good pasta but like beer, it's a lot cheaper if you start with tomatoes and go from there.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I saw an immediate and drastic improvement in the quality of my beer when I switched to all grain. I know I will get people slamming me on this like I do every time, but that is my experience both when I brewed many years ago, and when I started up again last year. The beer tasted much better, and I really enjoyed brewing a lot more with all grain. I would never go back other than a batch here or there.

One thing to consider is that, most (not all) brewers change to AG after they've been brewing for a while. That's my story. I think that the brewer's experience and process improvements has more of an impact on beer improvements than simply going to AG...

Again, don't take that the wrong way... I brew AG almost every time and LOVE it. I do think that I can fine tune my brews better using AG. I just don't want to bash extract brewing for the wrong reasons...

 

[ThePearsonFam]

Think of spaghetti sauce. You can take a can of Ragu or higher quality commercial brand and add mushrooms, peppers and sausage and maybe a few extra spices or pureed carrots and make a damn good plate of pasta that you would be happy to serve to anyone. But you can't take anything out that is already there.

Or you can go to the store and buy fresh tomatoes, onions and herbs and have complete control of the entire process and create something that is all yours.

Either way you have good pasta but like beer, it's a lot cheaper if you start with tomatoes and go from there.

Great analogy...

 

[xfevv]

Another dumb question, what is the difference between pm and extract? I looked through the sticky above and didn't really see that he did anything different than what I'd do with extract...

I like the idea of greater control/flexibility. I love to experiment so that certainly appeals to me. I experimented last year with an extract and took third in a local Oktoberfest comp, so AG certainly sounds good.

 

[chaydaw]

Partial Mash is where you have some sort of fermentable grains that you will "soak(mash)" in hot water to get flavors/fermentables. You then add that wort to another amount of LME/DME, hence "partial" mash.

Extract is simply that, it is all extract. There are no grains, just the LME/DME.

 

[xfevv]

So maybe I'm doing partial mash? I get a kit that has a number of grains that I place in bag and steep for about an hour, then add malt extract and hops later...

 

[BendBrewer]

So maybe I'm doing partial mash? I get a kit that has a number of grains that I place in bag and steep for about an hour, then add malt extract and hops later...

No that is an extract brew. PM you actually MASH some grains that contain diastatic power to convert starches to sugars. Most grains used in Extract brewing, steeping, do not contain this power and nothing is getting converted and there is no mashing taking place. You are simply extracting flavors, some protein and color.

 

[xfevv]

I got ya, thanks for the clarification

 

[BendBrewer]

When I jumped from Extract to PM, I bought a 2 gallon water cooler and a medium sized grain bag. The bag slipped into the cooler like a glove, lining the sides and bottom. I could mash like 5 pounds I think of grain. This introduced me to mash temps, iodine tests, sparging, vourloufing, and balanced grain bills. After a few batches I was able to take the next step to all grain knowing a lot more about the process and I hit my first AG out of the park. First place in the APA category.

 

[unionrdr]

No that is an extract brew. PM you actually MASH some grains that contain diastatic power to convert starches to sugars. Most grains used in Extract brewing, steeping, do not contain this power and nothing is getting converted and there is no mashing taking place. You are simply extracting flavors, some protein and color.

Close,it's what I've seen called "partial extract". Basically,an extract kit with some steeping grains. One step up from 100% extract that adds the freshness of grains that seem to disappear in DME/LME's when they're processed into dry or concentrate form.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

As previously stated, the PM kits have a portion of the sugars coming from the extract and a portion coming from grains. The grains in the PM kits MUST have some amount of base malt to provide the requisite diastatic power (read that as the enzymes present to conduct the starch to sugar conversion). Specialty malts don't [typically] have the enzymes to self-convert.

Extract kits MAY have a small bag of grains for steeping but you're not converting the starches to sugars like you would ina mash or partial mash, they're specialty grains solely for steeping.

so, you're doing a PM if the grains have base grains and you're doing an extract w/ specialty grains if they're just specialty grains. If you're ordering the kit, the store should tell you if it's PM or extract.