Double IPAs: importance of all-grain vs extract

[RedShirt]

Distinguished brewers:

Been brewing for a couple years now, have fairly good processes (sanitation, temperature-controlled fermentation chamber, air pump for aeration, utilize starters, full-volume boil, etc).

In general, I much prefer to drink the beers that result from using an all-grain recipe/approach. As I get busier in life, however, I'm looking for ways to shorten the brewday. A double IPA seems like it might lend itself to using extract and steeping grains, since the malt flavor itself is not a focus of the beer.

Has anyone brewed a similar double IPA recipe using both extract/steeping grains and all-grain processes? If so, how did the extract version compare/contrast with the all-grain version? Thanks for your input!

 

[JKaranka]

I've not done the same recipe in both all grain and extract but with extract I use the lightest LME and drop any crystal if it was less than 5% of the original grain bill. Depending on attenuation I might add some type of sugar to dry it out.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

The president of my homebrew club will do all his IPAs (single or double or whatever) as all extract. Everything else he does all grain. I tried one of his IPAs at our last meeting and, I don't like IPAs generally, but it was damn damn damn good.

If anything it would make it much easier for you to control the IPA since you are already going to be spending (presumably) a lot on the hops for your double IPA (my red rye IPA I must've put in 9oz of hops, 6 of which were Citra and Mosaic so it gets expensive quick, or the double IPA I made for a friend had something like 14oz in a 4 gallon batch). I can't bring myself to pay for extract since I'm a cheap skate so my IPAs will be all-grain, but I can see the logic and have tasted it, of using extract on IPAs.

 

[m00ps]

I would think you'd still want All-Grain with IPAs since you want to get a really dry body. You don't have the control of wort fermentability with extracts as you do when mashing

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I would think you'd still want All-Grain with IPAs since you want to get a really dry body. You don't have the control of wort fermentability with extracts as you do when mashing

You can sometimes address this with sugar additions, or doing a really large healthy pitch of yeast.

Not to attack anyone but I find in *a lot* of cases when someone says a beer is a "cloyingly sweet" (particularly when they're drinking an IPA) 9 times out of 10, they're full of brown waste material. Is it possible you'll end up with slightly higher final gravities with all extract? Yeah. Is there nothing you can do to prevent that? No. Will you notice a huge difference? Probably not, unless your beer is finishing .005 or more points higher than expected, and even then you may not notice if it finishes at 1.015 as opposed to 1.010.

 

[Cyclman]

I brewed extracts (fresh from a very busy LHBS) that with a good pitch, oxygen injection, and temperature control, including ramping up temps at the end of fermentation, that dried out nicely, in one case more than I intended, it got to 1.008.

I do think fresh extract is important, or DME I suppose would be equivalent, but have made great IPAs extract + steeping.

I do love to smell my mash, though, it is a primary joy of brewing, so I do AG most batches. I do BIAB small batch if I want to rush a bit.

 

[NoCornOrRice]

I do an annual mega IIIPA with a 6 hour boil and full grain.... but for most IIPAs I either just take the first running, or add some DME to bump up the OG... really cutts down on the time required. I also tend to throw in some melanoidan malt in the faster batches.

 

[RedShirt]

Thanks all! I decided to give it a shot with extracts and adjuncts (Briess Pilsen light dry, a little wheat, and about 10-11% dextrose). Steeped a very small amount of C40. Fermenting at 63 now - will follow up with the results in 6 weeks or so.

 

[RedShirt]

Quick update - OG: 1.073, FG: 1.010 with extract and ~10% dextrose. Second dry hopping is wrapping up today. Sample tasted great, and will post pics in a couple weeks when all finished.

 

[RedShirt]

Final update: the 1/2 keg of this double IPA I brewed is now kicked, bottled and shipped for Christmas. Outcome - unfortunately, I do think all-grain makes a noticeable difference. It wasn't a terrible beer, and it will be enjoyed as a gift by its recipients, but I do think the extra couple hours for an all-grain beer adds a lot to the final product, even with a metric ton of hops. Happy brewing!

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

What sort of difference would it be? I've had a couple IPAs now that were all extract with steeping grains that were fantastic, dry, hoppy, crisp.

 

[khillian]

I also would like to know the difference. Most of the big producers of extract have serious expertise and equipment superior to the average homebrewer. With a style where the hops are the spotlight I don't believe all grain would make any difference vs extract.

I think extract gets a bad rap due to poor fermentation and processes by the new brewers who start off using extract. People win NHC medals with extract beers.

 

[paperairplane]

Local club member makes partial mash extract beers that win competitions. It's all process and attention to detail.

 

[RedShirt]

In theory, I agree with all of you (otherwise I wouldn't have done this "experiment"). I think process is incredibly important, and I am sure that that is an area that continues to improve throughout a brewer's growth in the hobby.

All I can conclude is that for me, I (myself) seem to make better beer, which tastes "mature" more quickly, using an all-grain process.

That being said, I have also noticed that I like the "base" characteristics of some brands of extract better than others. For example, when I was brewing more with extract, I had the best results with Munton's extra light, or plain light, DME. I think I forgot about that, actually, when I purchased the ingredients for this beer, and went with Briess Pilsen Light.

Anyone else notice that they tend to prefer one brand of DME to another?

 

[RedShirt]

Zombie thread revival! I just wanted to say that I take it back....I believe the issue I had with this beer, which I have had in a few IPAs that I have brewed since, is not related to extract or all-grain. It was a coincidence. There's another thread I have started to diagnose and treat a "harshness" problem that I'm finding in my hoppier beers. Once I fix that, I intend to also brew a killer extract double IPA. More later.

 

[khillian]

Glad to hear your still brewing and working on your process.

Do you take PH readings?

 

[RedShirt]

Thanks, and yes - I purchased a Milwaukee MW-102 towards the end of last year, and mash pH has been between 5.3 and 5.4 at room temp, maybe 10 minutes into the mash after mineral and acid additions.

My non-hoppy AG beers are coming out fairly well - recently took 2nd for a Helles in a local competition. I think that in general, most of my process is pretty solid. My best theory at this point on my hop harshness is that I am getting significantly more utilization from flameout additions than expected, so I am going to try some small extract ipa batches to experiment with different hop schedules. Will probably start with something that has only a modest bittering charge, combined with a large hop stand once the temp gets below 190F. All ideas and comments on this approach are welcomed!