Does rousing cause oxidation?

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cuseman24

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I want to rouse beer that is currently in the primary to force excess CO2 out.

I opened the plastic bucket to take a hydrometer reading in order to verify fermentation is complete.

My concern is that the oxygen now in the primary will cause oxidation when I swirl the beer around to rouse it. Is this a legitimate concern?

Additionally, isn't oxygen introduced just through the act of gathering a sample for a hydrometer reading? Is this a concern for oxidation?

Thanks.
 
No
No
No

CO2 is heavier than air, so if you are careful it will stay in the bucket and keep the beer safe.
 
Actually the co2 is below the o2 from openning the bucket..it is protecting the beer just fine...all of us open the bucket to take readings, and don't concern ourselves with worying that that will "oxydize" the beer....it takes a lot more that to do that. Like pumping an entire red 02 bottle into our fermenter...

If you are truly paranoid, then simply remove the airlock, push down on the bucket lid to let the air out, and replace it..Or leave the airlock in place and do the same thing and watch the airlock go ratatatatata

But really you are just being uber paranoid...our beer is much more hardier than that.
 
I want to rouse beer that is currently in the primary to force excess CO2 out.

Why?

I'm serious, I've never heard of anyone doing this for beer, since beer is carbonated. Wine, yes, because wine (usually) is not carb'd so you want to degas it completely.

Just trying to understand the goal here.
 
Why?

I'm serious, I've never heard of anyone doing this for beer, since beer is carbonated. Wine, yes, because wine (usually) is not carb'd so you want to degas it completely.

Just trying to understand the goal here.

Unless fermentation has stalled, or is stuck, or if you are trying to get the gravity to drop that extra point or two, then there is really no reason to rouse the yeast.
 
I was also concerned about swirling the beer around in the primary as a method of rousing the yeast. I think that could definitely aerate the beer to some extent, obviously depending on how vigorously you are going to swirl it. Depending on how much CO2 is in the headspace, it does seem that opening the fermenter up and then using mechanical means to swirl the beer could disrupt the CO2 blanket. As everyone else has pointed out, though, you are not going to aerate the beer with a hydrometer reading. And unless the beer is going to sit in the primary for a long time, I don't think that anyone has found that you need to worry about a little air in the headspace. When conditioning or lagering, though, you should purge the headspace with CO2.

Regarding methods of rousing the yeast, I was thinking of using CO2 to rouse the yeast for a diacetyl rest. My idea was to just pump CO2 through a tube into the yeast cake at the beginning of the diacetyl rest. This would avoid aeration and would definitely help bring the yeast into suspension. Of course, you would then need to give the yeast sufficient time to settle out again before racking.
 
Ok, for those of you concerned about swirling and oxydation (like for a stuck fermentation), when we suggest you "swirl to rouse the yeast," we are not telling you to shake the hell out of your fermenter like you did before you pitched the yeast.

The motion we are reffering to is less motion than even racking you beer produces.

Here's what you do...it works either with a carboy or a bucket, but I will describe it in "carboy" terms.

1 Grab the neck of the carboy with right hand.
2 Tilt the carboy until it is supported on one point on the bottom (a pivot point)
3 With the hand holding the carboy make a little rotate motion clockwise from "12 oclock" to "6 oclock" (a half twist)
4 Put fermenter back down.

That's it....no major shaking, no major foaming...just a gentle swirl to bring the yeast off the surface.....

Some things to remember, your beer is wrapped in co2, not oxygen and any air you left in the fermenter if you opened it for a grav reading, is rapidly pushed out your airlock by the constant creation of co2.....That is what your arilock is for! It is not a fermentation gauge it is a valve to let out any air and excess co2....so there is very little air in it to oxydize your beer anyway.

If you have a bucket you can even "burp" the air out like a giant tupperware container (remember the burp commercial) just remove the airlock and push down on the center of the lid, and replace the airlock, more than likely you have gotten 99% of the air in there, the co2 will void out the rest.

If you are in a better bottle, you can squeeze the bottle a bit and make the airlock bubble a bit to void out the air. If you are in glass, or don't want to burp, you can just let your fermenter sit for an hour or so after openning it, and co2 will be produced and void out the air anyway.

In reality it takes a lot more oxygen exposure of our beer to cause any damage...in a basic brewing podcast years ago, one of the big wigs, John Palmer, or Chris Colby (the editor of BYO) said that the amount of oxygen to actually damage our beer, is actually far in excess of what we do in the normal course of brewing and even most of our accidents. And requires about the amount of oxygen that we could pump in by emptying one of our red oxygen bottles with an airstone into our bottling bucket....not the normal amount of motion we make if we are careful brewers.

Also the effects of oxydation are long term they affect the storage of beers...Unless you pumped an oxygen bottle into your finished beer, you will have consumed your two cases of beer long before any signs of oxydation would show up.

Finally, if you brew from fear, you won't make good beer.

Give your beer some credit...it has managed to survive over 4,000 years of brewing, long before germ theory, long before the internets, brewed in some brutal conditions, and managed to survive.

I can't say this enough, your beer is much hardier than most new brewers give it credit.

Read the stories in hear, and you will see that our beer manages to turn out great, in spite of what we do to it!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

That's why over and over, we say to relax...as long as you are relatively careful, your beer will turn out fine. 99.5% of the time, it does.

:mug:
 
I want to rouse beer that is currently in the primary to force excess CO2 out.

Why do you want to force out excess CO2? This is done in wine making, in the secondary, not the primary. But beer get carbonated anyway. The CO2 is protecting the beer from oxygen. If you force out the CO2, you lose that protection. Plus you are stirring up the yeast again.
 
I have had a stuck fermentation where I had to add some yeast energizer, and actually stirred the the yeast cake back into suspension with my sanitized SS spoon (ever so gently of course). I don't understand how everyone thinks that swirling or even a gentle stir will oxygenate/aerate the beer.

As Revvy has stated, co2 is constantly being produced, even when fermentation has seemed to subside co2 will still be released from suspension.

Oxidation doesn't occur, because you open the lid to your fermenter to take a gravity reading, or if you gently swirl or stir the beer in the fermenter. If there is no splashing then more than likely you aren't running the risk of oxidation, which again, as Revvy has made clear would take quite a bit of oxygenation/aeration to occur.

You'll normally drink your beer before effects of oxidation would occur, even if you were to oxidize your beer.
 
I don't understand how everyone thinks that swirling or even a gentle stir will oxygenate/aerate the beer.

You know how buddy, new brewers are afraid that if they look at their fermenter wrong, their beer will instantly die and turn into toxic sludge.

We were all there to one degree or another when we were newbs ourselves.

Hey Schnitz,

:off:I just came upon something interesting in regards to "stuck fermentation" adding yeast hulls, which are basically dead unviable yeast. You can buy it from most lhbs's, but can also buy it at health food stores (that is what brewer's yeast" in the health food store is...non viable yeast. Ot all those old yeast packets that may have been left over from the mr beer days, that are outdated and dead...Or that jar of bread yeast that was supposed to be kept in the freezer, but your ex girflriend who broke up with you and was packing all the stuff you left over there, and didn't heed the instructions and left in her hot garage til you came over (along with that jar of beautifully rendered duck fat, the B*#ch)..But I digresss :D

You can even add yeast hulls to the boil (I just added some of the afore mentioned bread yeast into my saison.)

Living yeasts are cannibals...and just love thier dead cousins..so evidently according to William's brewing website, adding some yeast hulls to a stuck fermentation will get the yeasties partying again.
 
RDWHAHB -;)

Oxygenation <> Oxidation

Oxidation is rust and the browning of cut apples. Oxygenation is the introduction of oxygen. Oxidation is the loss of an electron by a molecule and can happen and can spoil beer. But, it has to happen on a grand scale for spoilage to occur and is more likely to be an issue after fermentation. Sure, if you shake your fermented beer like crazy and remove the yeast and leave the beer in the sun without refrigeration, it'll spoil. If you happen to stir your beer to try jump starting stalled fermentation, no worries. The newly awakened yeast will gobble up the O2 that is present.

Oxidation is more likely to occur because of bad kegging or bottling practices than stirring the wort in your fermenter.
 
You know how buddy, new brewers are afraid that if they look at their fermenter wrong, their beer will instantly die and turn into toxic sludge.

We were all there to one degree or another when we were newbs ourselves.

Hey Schnitz,

:off:I just came upon something interesting in regards to "stuck fermentation" adding yeast hulls, which are basically dead unviable yeast. You can buy it from most lhbs's, but can also buy it at health food stores (that is what brewer's yeast" in the health food store is...non viable yeast. Ot all those old yeast packets that may have been left over from the mr beer days, that are outdated and dead...Or that jar of bread yeast that was supposed to be kept in the freezer, but your ex girflriend who broke up with you and was packing all the stuff you left over there, and didn't heed the instructions and left in her hot garage til you came over (along with that jar of beautifully rendered duck fat, the B*#ch)..But I digresss :D

You can even add yeast hulls to the boil (I just added some of the afore mentioned bread yeast into my saison.)

Living yeasts are cannibals...and just love thier dead cousins..so evidently according to William's brewing website, adding some yeast hulls to a stuck fermentation will get the yeasties partying again.

Thanks for the tip Revvy, funny enough I was doing some Yeast research on Wikipedia, and came across the dietary supplement yeast extract such as "Marmite" and "Vegemite". I also saw Nutritional yeast (which I assume is brewer's yeast) and I was surprised to find it as a vegan menu item.

Once again thanks, guess I will add some yeast hulls to the ingredient list for brew days. I assume they are the same as Servomyces?
 
Thanks for the tip Revvy, funny enough I was doing some Yeast research on Wikipedia, and came across the dietary supplement yeast extract such as "Marmite" and "Vegemite". I also saw Nutritional yeast (which I assume is brewer's yeast) and I was surprised to find it as a vegan menu item?

Yeast is a member of the Fungi kingdom. Not an animal, so safe for veggies like me to eat. I like them yeasties!
 
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