Does Extract Brewing Make Darker Beer?

[KPaul]

I've recently brewed 5 extract batches and a couple were darker than I expected. I made a cream ale that I was expecting to be pretty pale and it's quite amber. I plan to make a cream ale as my first all grain batch and wondered if I can expect it to be lighter than the extract cream ale batch?

 

[Bigelow92]

It depends. I you add all of your extract at the beginning of the boil, you can expect a lot of Maillard reactions (which are responsible for wort darkening). One way to combat this (though its still not perfect) is to add half or all the extract in the last 5 minutes of the boil (still steep as per usual I your using specialty grains). This will not only get your wort truer to color, it will increase the alpha acid extraction efficiency of your hop additions (i.e. the hops you add will have more of an impact on bitterness and flavor), since hop utilization is inversely proportional to sugar concentration in the wort. Some brewers claim adding extract at the end of the boil also helps to combat "extract twang" though I've never seen any proof.

I always add the DME at the beginning of the boil (since I have like a 10 lb bag of extra light, and I usually want a pinch of darkening) and all my LME at the end of the boil, and have always had good results. Hope this helps, good luck and happy brewing!

 

[BlindFaith]

+1 to the above post. I started adding my LME or DME at the end (half with 5 minutes left in boil and the other half at flameout) to maintain color. I only add DME now if my pre-boil gravity is low with AG and I add that at flameout, but it is usally less than a pound.

 

[unionrdr]

For AE beers,I do a partial boil of 2.5-3.5 gallons in my SS 5 gallon kettle with 1.5-2lbs of plain DME. I do all hop additions with that. Then add remaining DME & all LME at flame out.
When I'm doing PB/PM BIAB beers,I use the fresh grain wort (50% of fermentables) for the hop additions. All extract at flame out.

 

[KPaul]

I tried the late liquid extract addition with my batch on Thursday, boiling for 15 minutes rather than 60. It still looked darker than I expected when I transferred to the fermenter. I put the amber DME in at the beginning of the boil and the pale LME toward the end. If I do extract again I'll do it with 5 or less minutes to go.

So does the full boil time not affect the color of an AG wort like it does extract? I'll be boiling for the full 60 minutes but with less mailiard reactions?

 

[Bigelow92]

That's an interesting question, and I'm not sure. My gut instinct is to say yes, the same wort darkening occurs in an AG wort as in an extract wort, but I can't say for sure. I'll do a little research n report back.

5 min to end of boil is a good time to add extract, because you need to stir it in well and if you add at flameout you risk it dropping below pasteurizing temp before its all stirred in. 10 min will likely make more of a color difference than you might think.

If you can't seem to wrangle the color problem, you might consider tweaking the recipe to use more pale and less amber extract. It will change the flavor a little, but if your using specialty grains (which I HIGHLY recommend... Definatly one of the easiest ways to improve your all extract beer) then this will allow you a lot more control over the flavor and color, and you could use all pale extract and tweak the grains ratio to get the exact color you want.

Above all experiment, that's the beauty of home brewing!

 

[unionrdr]

That's an interesting question, and I'm not sure. My gut instinct is to say yes, the same wort darkening occurs in an AG wort as in an extract wort, but I can't say for sure. I'll do a little research n report back.

5 min to end of boil is a good time to add extract, because you need to stir it in well and if you add at flameout you risk it dropping below pasteurizing temp before its all stirred in. 10 min will likely make more of a color difference than you might think.

If you can't seem to wrangle the color problem, you might consider tweaking the recipe to use more pale and less amber extract. It will change the flavor a little, but if your using specialty grains (which I HIGHLY recommend... Definatly one of the easiest ways to improve your all extract beer) then this will allow you a lot more control over the flavor and color, and you could use all pale extract and tweak the grains ratio to get the exact color you want.

Above all experiment, that's the beauty of home brewing!

Pasturization temp IS below boiling not AT boiling. It's at about 162F,which is below the still boiling hot temp at flame out when you add the remaining extract(s). I don't know why it's so hard to get folks to understand pasteurization happens well below boiling point,not at the boiling point then boil the holy snot out of it just to make sure. Flame out additions are perfectly safe I & many others do it all the time.
But I agree with using plain light extract in the boil after maybe steeping some crystal/color grains to get color & tweak the flavor.
Oh,and the reason extract (particularly LME) darkens in the 1 hour boil is because it's already been through that process once. Doing it twice will darken it & give that twang. That's why AG & PM beers don't taste like that right away with most people. The extract is getting boiled twice. The grain wort is fresh.

 

[grem135]

+1 on unionrdr above. I boil my specialty grains wort and 1-2 lbs of DME for the full 60 minutes and add all LME at flame out. I have added 6lbs of LME at flameout stirred in very well, carried the BK to my basement slop sink give it another stir and it is still 195 to 200F before chilling.
My Patersbier came out a beautiful light golden using flameout additions.

 

[Bigelow92]

That makes a lot of sense, that LME has already gone through the boil process, and thus darkens more than DME which I believe is concentrated wort sprayed through a fine nozzle that dries in the air. At least I think that's how they do it.

Point taken on the pasteurization. I have a big wide kettle that let's the wort cool really quickly, but your right, I doubt my stirring could cool that sucker below 170... Just look at how long it takes to cool the wort to pitching temp! I just like to be careful. I do all sorts of flameout additions of just about everything but extract. After my first infection I vowed it would never happen again and I'm a little anal. But unions absolutely right, your probably safe doing flameout extract additions.

 

[Yooper]

I tried the late liquid extract addition with my batch on Thursday, boiling for 15 minutes rather than 60. It still looked darker than I expected when I transferred to the fermenter. I put the amber DME in at the beginning of the boil and the pale LME toward the end. If I do extract again I'll do it with 5 or less minutes to go.

So does the full boil time not affect the color of an AG wort like it does extract? I'll be boiling for the full 60 minutes but with less mailiard reactions?

Using amber DME means the beer will be dark, also, since the DME has darker malts in it. I would use light (or extra light) extract and get the color and flavor needed from specialty grains instead of using amber (or dark) LME or DME.

A full boil time tends to not affect AG brews in the same way for a couple of reasons. One, since you start with 6.5-7 gallons and boil down to 5 gallons, there is less sugar per gallon and so less maillard reactions. Often in an extract batch, there is a concentrated boil and then the wort has water added at the end.

That makes a big difference in the maillard reactions, and often partial boils will have a "cooked extract" taste to them as a result. The late addition of extract helps a lot with this, and I'd add the bulk of the extract at flame out to help counteract that.

 

[unionrdr]

True. Using steeping grains for the color & some flavor complexities will alliviate the twang & darkening problem. but adding the late extract additions at flame out rather than the last 5-15 minutes of the boil like he's doing will lighten it up more. Just have your late additions ready to go when flame out comes around. Then work quickly & carefully. since pasteurization happens in seconds @ about 162F & the wort is still boiling hot,you'll have nothing to worry about. I do like using a plastic 24" paddle for this myself. More surface area to stir with.

 

[jotakah]

Often in an extract batch, there is a concentrated boil and then the wort has water added at the end.

This.

Before I switched to all-grain, I had trouble with getting colors correctly and with that "homebrew taste" of cooked extract. When I was getting my gear together for AG I got to do some full-volume extract boils and those problems went away. The concentrated boil with mixing later seemed to definitely be a key factor from my experience

 

[Bigelow92]

If your doin 5 gal batches, the bed bath and beyond near me sells ceramic coated steel 7.5 gal lobster pots for like 35 bucks, and that's what I use. They also sell a 7.5 gallon aluminum turkey pot with an already welded in valve and it comes with a propane burner! I think it's like 100 bucks but I'm gunna pick up one soon. Both of these will let you do full volume boils and BIAB, if your lookin to go to the next level but don't wanna invest in a full AG setup.

 

[unionrdr]

I don't do concentrated boils,no matter AE to PM. It's tuning the late extract additions that's the key. there are no hard & fast rules with Late additions,biab,pb,pm,ag... You can do them all partial boil without any concentration of wort. That's the real BS story here. Trust me...I'm begining to think I aught to teach this damn subject over at LCCC just to get my point across,come one come all. I know variable partial boil works 'cause I do it. With biab steep or pm.
Before y'all start breakin out the torches & pitchforks,dig this. I used to write a column in the mid 90's called The Soap Box Racer (no,not the one in Akron) for Scale Auto Racing News,a world-wide publication for us touring pro's & ameture alike. The pen really is mightier than the sword. I got good enough to make manufacturers change things. Kinda like the Billy Crystal movie,ya gotta write watcha know.R-R-R!
So I do get pationate about what I know works. Like my sig,"everything works if ya let it"! Meatloaf was right.

 

[Bigelow92]

But if one could choose, a full volume boil is preferable to a partial boil that's diluted right? For alpha acid extraction, to avoid darkening, and to combat twang right? I would argue late extract additions are even better at circumventing these issues than boil volume but if one could choose... Now that I say that I realize how much more time efficient it is to get 3 gal cooled to pitching temp vs. 5 gal. So there's certainly that. Maybe partial boil is the way to go...

 

[stvo]

But if one could choose, a full volume boil is preferable to a partial boil that's diluted right? For alpha acid extraction, to avoid darkening, and to combat twang right? I would argue late extract additions are even better at circumventing these issues than boil volume but if one could choose... Now that I say that I realize how much more time efficient it is to get 3 gal cooled to pitching temp vs. 5 gal. So there's certainly that. Maybe partial boil is the way to go...

I do a full boil and still do late additions, probably about 50% at start and rest at flame out especially if I'm doing anything "pale" works great dont think I'll ever do any other way, I've converted to AG and BIAB lately but still do some of my favorite extract recipes here's a pic of my "blond" extract beer came out fantastic my BMC drinking bro inlaw loves it!

 

[jotakah]

there are no hard & fast rules with Late additions,biab,pb,pm,ag... You can do them all partial boil without any concentration of wort.

you're correct that in theory they could all be done this way but in reality I do not know of a single AG brewer who does partial boils

 

[unionrdr]

I've read a couple threads on here discussing partial boil all grain. I think it can indeed be done,but I don't know for sure,since I haven't tried it AG yet. Some have & say it works. I read it in the last month or so,so a search might turn it up.
Anyway,the rest being done with partial boils without concentrating all that extract is def an easy solution. I do 3.5 gallon boils in my 5G kettle,& hop utilization is pretty darn good. A lighter wort seems to have better utilization than a heavy one. but I do imagine even using a full boil this way would get the same effect. Just taloring the extract amounts to the volume of water used.
If I'm doing my PB/PM BIAB thing,the grain wort makes up some 50% of the fermentables,so I use that for the boil & hop additions. Adding all the extract at flame out. Colors & flavors are def better. And the grains' additions to the flavor/aroma complexities are more easilly tasted/smelled to me.