Do you shake or swirl your fermenter?

[BlackDog-Brewery]

I almost chose to ask my question to the members who have already posted that they "shake their fermenters" by sending them a PM. But because I have too many variables going on right now since switching from stock pots and a cooler to all grain via a HERMS, so I decided to ask all of the grain brewers . . .

Up until now, I never swirled or shook the fermenter everyday as a few people have recommended in posts. The only reason I searched on shaking the fermenter was because I switched to HERMS and my efficiency dropped due to my own mistakes that people have already pointed out. So I thought that shaking the 5 gallons in a 6 gallon fermenter would only help the situation.

So my 2 questions are:

- Do you still swirl your fermenter to break up the yeast line and trub line every day after brew day until active fermentation appears to have stopped?

- Or, do you only start to swirl or shake after the active fermentation appears to have stopped, and after the krausen has settled and there is no more CO2 releasing from the airlock?

BTW . . . I never remove the airlock when I recently started to swirl. So this topic has nothing to do with O2 exposure while swirling the fermenter. It's all about getting the most work out of the yeast to improve the final ABV.

Jimmy

 

[Yooper]

I never shake or swirl my fermenter.

If I had a beer that stalled during fermentation, and was stuck, I suppose I would but that hasn't happened to me in 300+ batches.

And even if you never remove the airlock, oxygen IS in the fermenter (due to the laws of physics like the Ideal Gas Law, and oxygen permeable stoppers and bungs) and I can think of no good reason at all to swirl or shake the fermenter.

If there was some sort of advantage to doing so, I would. I can not think of a single reason that swirling a fermenter would be a good idea. It might not hurt much, or at all, but I don't see why someone would do it anyway.

 

[jeff13]

I spin. Doesn't knock down the krausen on the wall but rousts the yeast. Just spin the carboy in pave and the liquid spins as well. Works like a dream

 

[LovesIPA]

100% everything Yooper said.

 

[chickypad]

Also going to go with none of the above. The only way this makes sense to me is if you had a stuck/slow fermentation that might have been due to the yeast dropping out too soon, say with an accidental cool spell. If you're having general attenuation problems then I think you need to look at other factors like pitch rates, yeast health, temp control during fermentation, or maybe just choosing the correct strain. And of course none of this is going to do a thing for your efficiency problems.

 

[Natdavis777]

I'm like the guy on the info-mercial... Set it and forget it. As long as you aerate and pitch enough yeast, everything should work out fine


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[Brulosopher]

I can't think of any good reason to shake or swirl my carboys. I do pitch adequate amounts of healthy yeast.


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[kh54s10]

Agreed... Unless you have a stalled fermentation there should be no reason to do anything. I put my fermenter in my chamber then after 2 weeks or longer I keg it. In between --- nothing.

 

[max384]

I'm also in the camp of never shaken or stirred any of my fermenters.

 

[Agent]

I most certainly give mine a swirl probably twice a day until vigorous fermentation takes off. After that, I only agitate it when I need to smell the awesomeness pouring out of the airlock. I like to think that swirling right away helps my yeast take off more consistently (since my trub varies from little to alot).

 

[Facinerous]

I always shake the hell out of my fermenter. When its empty and I'm cleaning it.

 

[metric]

I'm a shaker. Helps loosen and break up the krausen and keep yeast in suspension, where the action is. I do this more for my lagers than for ales. I like to think it helps shorten fermentation time and increase attenuation but I have no comparative data for this.
After cold crashing, I'll tap the sides to help loosen up TRUB that is stuck to the sides, which then drops to the bottom prior to racking.

 

[abeasst]

I never shake or swirl.

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

Wow !

I didn't realize that my question would draw so many mixed opinions.

The only reason I asked is because of my recent efficiency problems by switching from stock pots and coolers to a HERMS, and during my research for answers I came across a post that said to gently swirl the fermenter everyday to rouse the yeast and increase attenuation.

So the first batch I decided to swirl was a Belgium Tripel (that contains 1 pound of candy sugar) that was doing fine and actively fermenting after 3 days, but the morning after I swirled I found a huge mess that blew through the air lock, and krausen all over the place.

I immediately switched to a blow-off tube but found that was no longer needed. The carboy had already calmed down on it's own, and is now back on an air lock.

So with mixed opinions on this thread, I think I'm going to hold off on the swirling until active fermentation has visibly stopped, krausen has collapsed, and then try a gentle swirl for a few days before taking the next gravity reading to confirm the yeasties have finished their job.

Jimmy

 

[kh54s10]

Wow !

I didn't realize that my question would draw so many mixed opinions.

The only reason I asked is because of my recent efficiency problems by switching from stock pots and coolers to a HERMS, and during my research for answers I came across a post that said to gently swirl the fermenter everyday to rouse the yeast and increase attenuation.

So the first batch I decided to swirl was a Belgium Tripel (that contains 1 pound of candy sugar) that was doing fine and actively fermenting after 3 days, but the morning after I swirled I found a huge mess that blew through the air lock, and krausen all over the place.

I immediately switched to a blow-off tube but found that was no longer needed. The carboy had already calmed down on it's own, and is now back on an air lock.

So with mixed opinions on this thread, I think I'm going to hold off on the swirling until active fermentation has visibly stopped, krausen has collapsed, and then try a gentle swirl for a few days before taking the next gravity reading to confirm the yeasties have finished their job.

Jimmy

I originally said I don't do any swirling. But...

I have done a couple of big beers and have not done anything extra. But I would suggest taking a gravity sample after 10 days or so, if it was high then I would swirl to make sure fermentation goes as far as possible.

 

[helibrewer]

So this guy has done a lot of research with Lallemand (www.yeastwhisperer.com) and he does a fair amount of brewing in addition to winemaking...he rousts his brews daily, just like wine...his reasoning; it's the same critter doing the work in both beverages and yeast are much more efficient in suspension than packed on the bottom with a few billion of their closest friends.

 

[Yooper]

So this guy has done a lot of research with Lallemand (www.yeastwhisperer.com) and he does a fair amount of brewing in addition to winemaking...he rousts his brews daily, just like wine...his reasoning; it's the same critter doing the work in both beverages and yeast are much more efficient in suspension than packed on the bottom with a few billion of their closest friends.

That's interesting, but I don't roust the yeast in my wines either. I mean, I do stir them during primary generally, but that's not for the yeast- it's to resubmerge and break up the cap, and to drive off excess c02, as generally my wines are at a much higher OG than my beers. Most of my wines start at 1.100ish, while most of my beers are under 1.065. Large amounts of c02 are poisonous to yeast, and when the cap on the wine dries out, it can mold- so I stir my wines daily until they get to 1.020 or so, and then they are racked to secondary and airlocked at that point.

I don't think that rousting yeast has been necessary for me in winemaking or in brewing, and I have no issues with stuck or stalled fermentation or underattenuation.

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

I just checked out A.J. Comfort from www.yeastwhisperer.com and he wrote an article in MoreWine on a guide for how to make Mead. Here's what he said . . .

Throughout the fermentation, it is a good idea to stir the lees back up into solution once a day, especially towards the latter stages when things begin to slow down. This allows a greater percentage of the yeast to have access to the needed nutrient sources in the must and it also avoids the scenario where yeast are being buried alive, become starved and then react by producing H2S. In short, stirring the yeast helps everything and hurts nothing.

I'm pretty sure I created my own problem with the "sudden" blow-off mess that occurred within hours after I gently swirled the carboy during active fermentation. But after visible signs of active fermentation begin to fade, I might try a gentle swirl each day and see how it affects the gravity.

 

[Denny]

i never shake or swirl my fermenter.

If i had a beer that stalled during fermentation, and was stuck, i suppose i would but that hasn't happened to me in 300+ batches.

And even if you never remove the airlock, oxygen is in the fermenter (due to the laws of physics like the ideal gas law, and oxygen permeable stoppers and bungs) and i can think of no good reason at all to swirl or shake the fermenter.

If there was some sort of advantage to doing so, i would. I can not think of a single reason that swirling a fermenter would be a good idea. It might not hurt much, or at all, but i don't see why someone would do it anyway.

all of this^^^^^

 

[helibrewer]

It's a "Should I secondary"-like discussion. Do it if you like, otherwise don't...no harm no foul.


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[Heineken]

+ Yooper

 

[helibrewer]

I just checked out A.J. Comfort from www.yeastwhisperer.com and he wrote an article in MoreWine on a guide for how to make Mead. Here's what he said . . .

Throughout the fermentation, it is a good idea to stir the lees back up into solution once a day, especially towards the latter stages when things begin to slow down. This allows a greater percentage of the yeast to have access to the needed nutrient sources in the must and it also avoids the scenario where yeast are being buried alive, become starved and then react by producing H2S. In short, stirring the yeast helps everything and hurts nothing.

I'm pretty sure I created my own problem with the "sudden" blow-off mess that occurred within hours after I gently swirled the carboy during active fermentation. But after visible signs of active fermentation begin to fade, I might try a gentle swirl each day and see how it affects the gravity.

I've had several consultation sessions with him on winemaking, both red and white. It's white that gets most of the rousing/lee stirring treatment. Anyway, I don't rouse my beer unless I'm trying to encourage a stubborn ferment but Shea is a remarkably intelligent guy and awesome winemaker.

 

[Brulosopher]

I just checked out A.J. Comfort from www.yeastwhisperer.com and he wrote an article in MoreWine on a guide for how to make Mead. Here's what he said . . .



Throughout the fermentation, it is a good idea to stir the lees back up into solution once a day, especially towards the latter stages when things begin to slow down. This allows a greater percentage of the yeast to have access to the needed nutrient sources in the must and it also avoids the scenario where yeast are being buried alive, become starved and then react by producing H2S. In short, stirring the yeast helps everything and hurts nothing.



I'm pretty sure I created my own problem with the "sudden" blow-off mess that occurred within hours after I gently swirled the carboy during active fermentation. But after visible signs of active fermentation begin to fade, I might try a gentle swirl each day and see how it affects the gravity.

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[sweetcell]

i often, but not always, rouse my yeast. typically as fermentation is just about done. in my mind, i'm squeezing that last point or two out by making sure the yeast haven't flocc'ed out too soon. might be a fantasy, but i don't see it hurting my beer either.

 

[pjj2ba]

i often, but not always, rouse my yeast. typically as fermentation is just about done. in my mind, i'm squeezing that last point or two out by making sure the yeast haven't flocc'ed out too soon. might be a fantasy, but i don't see it hurting my beer either.

I probably rouse maybe a third my batches as above, as the beer is finishing up. Typically when I want a beer to finish up promptly so I can put a new beer in the fermentation chamber - or with the occasional high ABV beer

 

[Wingnutt73]

Wow I just seen this thread and read all of it. I don't know What I should do now lol!!!!
Swirl shake leave it alone. I have never done anything aside from airate and pitch. Now i'm wondering if I should be taking this step. Thanks lol.

 

[pjj2ba]

Wow I just seen this thread and read all of it. I don't know What I should do now lol!!!!
Swirl shake leave it alone. I have never done anything aside from airate and pitch. Now i'm wondering if I should be taking this step. Thanks lol.

Do it however you want to. Shake, no shake, both are fine - as long as you keep the airlock on! Best would be to brew the same recipe twice, and shake one and not the other. Then you can answer the question yourself which is better for YOU.

 

[Atticus1019]

I have a pretty large DIPA finishing up right now that I have started swirling a few times a day just to help the lazy little buggers finish their job. Seems to help a bit as streams of bubbles emerge from the trub. At the very least it's not hurting anything (much).

 

[gwapogorilla]

After the primary fermentation has ended and the krausen settles down, I pull off the blow-off tube and put an air lock on. But, before I do, I use a clean and sanitized metal coat hanger bent into an "L" shape, to spin the yeast cake back into suspension. No splashing going on to aerate the beer, and I don't have to worry about dropping the carboy either.

 

[cooldood]

Kind of reminds of the old debate or idea of using a magnetic stirrer.

 

[NeoBrew]

I asked the stir bar question a while back.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/theoretical-question-stirring-primary-fermentation-425275/

The answer that made the most sense was that oxygen for the yeast was not good for taste. I would think that shaking/swirling would get you some amount more oxygen. Would it be an imperceptible amount in this case?

i don't know what the best answer is. I've heard Jamil Zainasheff suggest rousting the yeast on big beers. I've done it from time to time. Like so many things, unless you do some more scientific comparison it would be hard to know for sure. Too many variables in a brew otherwise.

 

[divrguy]

I can understand gently swirling/stirring to get lees back into suspension..when I have a stalled ferment, (Happened when I had a very cold spell) but not to knock that nasty krausen back into my beer.

 

[EoinMag]

If you have a stalled ferment you've probably underpitched....do it right next time.

I have a 60l fermenter, it's impossible to rouse if I wanted to.