Do you really need the 60 minute boil?

CornyKegs 728
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MichaelBD

MichaelBD

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I've been brewing for quite some time already and my favorite style to brew are IPAs. I always late hop my IPAs, like 15-10 minute additions and was really wondering if it is really necessary to boil the wort for a full hour.

Has anyone tried brewing a late hopped IPA and boiling it for say 30mins instead? I think 30mins should be more than enough to sterilize anything in there and if it works just as well as a 60min boil, why waste time and gas....

I still have to try it out myself and would appreciate some insight!
 
The longer boil is used to get the AA's out of your 60 min bittering addition, if you have one. Also less boil would mean less boil off, resulting in a lower OG, so you would have to take that into account. Sure, you can do a shorter boil, just make adjustments to compensate. Also boiling drives off DMS, so need to keep that in mind.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/
 
I notice a lot of break material forming way late in the 60 min boil. Not sure if you would get this in a shorter boil or not?
 
Basic brewing has done some videos and podcasts about 15 minute boils. I've never done one but the podcast makes it very intriguing. I think brulosophy has done some short mash and boil stuff.
 
I heard DMS is pretty much a thing of the past with newer better grains. Not sure how true it is but its been said.
I plan a day around brewing so the difference between a 30 minute boil and 60 makes no difference and I go with the flow. Plus boiling takes zero work I go do something else during the boil so I see no need to push the envelope
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
I heard DMS is pretty much a thing of the past with newer better grains. Not sure how true it is but its been said.
I plan a day around brewing so the difference between a 30 minute boil and 60 makes no difference and I go with the flow. Plus boiling takes zero work I go do something else during the boil so I see no need to push the envelope
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Have you judge any home brewing competitions lately? In my opinion DMS is alive and brewing strong. There are some studies out there that validate exactly what you are saying. So, I'm in no way disagreeing with those studies or the science behind it.

Now, if you talk to the home brewers who are winning major competitions the overwhelming majority are doing 60-90 minute boils. If you talk to commercial brewers they are doing 60-90 minute boils. With the price of utilities they would be the first ones to shorten boil times if it were worth the risk. Throwing away an entire batch for 15-30 minutes could break the bank on some smaller operations. I know lowering their utility usage by 1/4 to 1/2 per batch would certainly affect their bottom line.

I whole heartily agree with you. Boiling takes zero work and I'm not willing to jeopardize the loss of a batch for 15-30 minutes of boil time. I'll wait for someone who has more skin in the game to start doing it before I push the envelope.
 
+1 for the 45 minute boil with a word of caution: I've only done this for my NEIPAs so it's possible the hop bursting is masking some defects from the malts. My NEIPA recipes have all used standard American 2-row or MO for the base malts, not-pils. I think I remember hearing that pils malts have higher levels of DMS and require longer boils (90 mins) to compensate.

Melanoidin production from extended boils may be desirable in some malt-based styles so I wouldn't expect the 45 minute boil to become a universal truth for all styles, but I'll stick with it for my friends and family NEIPAs.

One additional note that has not yet popped in this thread, that may attribute to LarMoeCur's comment about the popularity of DMS in competitions (presumably by folks doing 60-90 minute boils), is that the strength of a boil, not just duration, I believe plays an important factor into ridding your wort of DMS. A 90 minute boil that looks like a duck fart would be less effective than a 90 minute monster bubbler.

Apologies for the lack of citations but I've read too many homebrewing books and online articles (some of which may be bro-science/fake news/alternative facts) to keep my bibliography as sorted as it maybe should be.
 
DCzer said:
One additional note that has not yet popped in this thread, that may attribute to LarMoeCur's comment about the popularity of DMS in competitions (presumably by folks doing 60-90 minute boils), is that the strength of a boil, not just duration, I believe plays an important factor into ridding your wort of DMS. A 90 minute boil that looks like a duck fart would be less effective than a 90 minute monster bubbler.
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I took that comment as, there is lots of DMS showing up at competitions, but the winners, (presumably no DMS present) are the ones doing 60-90 min boils. As well as commercial brewers.
 
I've done 30 and 15 minute boil beers and no boil beers. Those brews were ok and worthwhile experiments, but I still prefer brews done with the standard boil.
Having said that, I would encourage you to experiment with different grain bills, boil times and hop additions, you might find something you like.
 
DCzer said:
One additional note that has not yet popped in this thread, that may attribute to LarMoeCur's comment about the popularity of DMS in competitions (presumably by folks doing 60-90 minute boils), is that the strength of a boil, not just duration, I believe plays an important factor into ridding your wort of DMS. A 90 minute boil that looks like a duck fart would be less effective than a 90 minute monster bubbler.
Click to expand...

I agree! but I caution you about excessive boil off. A good rolling 45 minute boil is better than a 90 minute simmer but if your exceeding 15% boil off rate you are wasting fuel and over darkening the wort. Which can lead to off flavor from excessive melanoidin production. The boil doesn't have to be violent just rolling.
 
I've been brewing all styles the past year with 30 min. boils. No caution necessary even with big pilsner grain bills. I've been brewing since the late 80's and I'm now converted to a less is more home brewer. I usually can now do a start to finish all grain in 1.5 hours with no noticeable difference in quality. Why waste time brewing when you could be enjoying your brews!
 
Boiling drives off undesirable volatiles, coagulates proteins, isomerizes hops, concentrates the wort and sanitizes the wort. The 1/2 life for DMS is 40 minutes.

So you can boil as little or as long as you want, just know that those things listed above will vary based on time....it's up to you.

We do a lot of hoppy beers at the brewery where I work, including NEIPA-style....run-off from the lauter takes 90-120 minutes, we boil for 60 minutes, if we use a bittering charge it is usually extract for 60 minutes, all other hop additions are in the whirlpool.
 
Couple things to keep in mind when it comes to boil times:

* New generation IPA's (Northeast, double, triple, juicy, alien phlem, space dust, or whatever other cute names people use) and other over-hopped out of balance turpentine flavored swill... It doesn't matter what's in it, how its made, or how long you boil. If you can tolerate drinking that crap, all you will taste is hops anyway so don't even worry about DMS or boil times. Stop pretending you can tell the difference between crap domestic 2-row and Maris Otter in your 150 IBU NEIPA.

* DMS... Many people can not tell corn from asparagus notes in a beer. Some will find a corn note pleasing and nice, rather than an "off" flavor or aroma. I don't mean to be rude, but a lot of sniffers and pallets just aren't tuned to detect DMS unless its crazy high levels or the taster is used to drinking coors light and you did a light lager or other significantly light brew with a majority of pilsner malt and did only a 10 minute boil. Personally, I am not a fan of DMS notes in beer, but I absolutely love a good corn whiskey that smells and tastes like corn bread batter. Every palate is different.

* Dark beers, extreme malt forward, high percentage crystal brews, fruited, sours, super funky saison's (and anything else that will overpower any dainty tastes or aromas)... If you can detect DMS in them, you have taste buds and a sniffer better than a dog.

* Boiling will help with protein coagulation and binding. If you want that crystal clear result, do a boil that is commensurate with the type of malts you are using and their protein content.

* High heats isomerizes hop oils and infuses it into your beer. If you want to boil less, great, but you will need more bittering hops to achieve the same IBU's. Only a buck or two difference, but its worth noting.

* Beyond 40 minutes with suitable kettle venting, the majority of DMS should be vaporized and voted off the planet. Obviously do not cover your boil kettle, so it doesn't condense and drip right back in
 
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I have never wavered from the 60 minute boil. In my opinion, there is no reason to mess with the common way of doing things.
 
I started out doing 60 minute boils and 90 minute boils for Pilsner based beers. I eventually switched to 90 minutes on everything for consistency’s sake and in my beers I noticed boiling for 90 improved my clarity.
 
SoCal-Doug said:
Couple things to keep in mind when it comes to boil times:

* New generation IPA's (Northeast, double, triple, juicy, alien phlem, space dust, or whatever other cute names people use) and other over-hopped out of balance turpentine flavored swill... It doesn't matter what's in it, how its made, or how long you boil. If you can tolerate drinking that crap, all you will taste is hops anyway so don't even worry about DMS or boil times. Stop pretending you can tell the difference between crap domestic 2-row and Maris Otter in your 150 IBU NEIPA.
Click to expand...

So how do you really feel about these beers?
 
RM-MN said:
I'm sure you ferment with no temperature control and condition your beer in a cave. After all, there is no reason to mess with the common way of doing things.
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No, I have fermentation temp control. Even if they didn't know it, the folks who fermented in caves were doing so because of temp control. Therefore, my position remains unchallenged.
 
Different grains have different potential for SMM which in turn creates DMS. If you want to test this out for yourself, do up a nice batch of heffy or wit (or lager if you are equipped) using a good pilsner malt. Do a 90 minute boil with no hops before 60 minutes. At the hot break, smell it. It will have a very obvious creamed corn aroma (and in some extreme cases, more like mild asparagus). 20 to 30 minutes later, you should notice that aroma becoming less and less. It may be a bit harder to detect after the first hops but over time you can train your sniffer. By 40 to 45 minutes, its almost undetectable. Like I said earlier, some people like DMS notes or cannot detect them, and if this is the case, it's no big deal at all.

There are some advantages to a longer boil for some styles when it comes to clearing, proteins and other stuff in our brews. If clearing doesn't matter, again, it's no big deal and no harm done in a shorter boil. As long as you get enough hops and/or enough time to isomerize those oils to the desired level, drink up!

Every style, malt and recipe is different. Master your skills and knowledge and learn where and when a 30 minute, 60 minute or 90 minute boil might be advantageous and why. Saying that EVERY recipe must have a 60 minute boil makes no more sense than saying every recipe should use Maris Otter for a base malt, or every recipe should use the same yeast.

Something else worth mentioning is those of us with 3 vessel or other high efficiency capable systems, want to sparge as much goodness from the grain as possible. At the end of sparge we measure SG and pH to assure we went slow and used ample hot liquor to rinse the grains clean. This leads to a level in the kettle that needs to be boiled down to the intended SG and fermenter volume. If we plan a 10 minute boil, our sparge is fast , low volume and incomplete, leading to much lower efficiency, and much of the sugars being left in the mash tun.
 
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The half-life of SMM (not DMS) is around 30 minutes when boiled at sea-level. It gets longer as your elevation increases.

The primary consideration in DMS reduction is the types of malts used in your grist. Pils and Green malt have high SMM and therefore need to be boiled longer. However, if you're at sea-level (or near it), you can probably still get by with a 60 min boil when brewing a high Pils content beer. You'll need the 30 plus minutes at boiling temp to convert most of the SMM to DMS and then you'll need a open and active boil for say 15 minutes to eject the DMS from the wort.

If your grist is largely pale or vienna malt, the amount of SMM in that malt is substantially less than for pils. If you're grist is dominated by munich malt, you don't need to worry about SMM at all.

PS: All beer styles with substantial pils malt content, typically have some DMS notes in the beer and there are style guideline allowances for it in most of those styles.
 
kevin58 said:
The Basic Brewing guys just released a video on 15 minute boils...
Click to expand...


I'm super intrigued by this. I ordered grains and hops today for a SMaSH pale ale, and I might do a 15 minute boil. I'm not sure what variety of hops I'm going to use yet, but I like the idea.
 
Haven't found the time to try a quick batch yet, but I'm so excited to hear from you!
 
I’ve been experimenting with brewing efficiencies (AKA shortcuts) over the past year and reading similar experiments by others. It has lead me to question a lot of brewing norms, including boil length. Obviously you need to adjust your grain bill and hops to account for a shorter boil. But I brewed a Helles late last year with just a 30 minute boil that didn’t seem to suffer for it. No DMS as far as I and others who tasted it could tell. (The reason for the shorter boil is that I intend to develop it into my house lager and simplify the brewing process: 30 minute mash, 30 minute boil and just a two-week turnaround time...)
 
For me it's not only about the DMS, it's about maillard reactions. Even for an ale, I feel the beer is lacking "something" with a shorter boil, if I usually boil it for longer times. Done a few Hefeweizens with 60 minute boil, not doing that again, with my current process, it just feels wrong. Maybe one can boil shorter, but harder?

I'll soon start experimenting with boiling part of the wort in a pressure cooker, to get those maillards out with a shorter main boil.
 
I’ve gotten to where I boil the majority of my beers 90 min. My boil is very slight vs the intense boil I used to use. I will go to 60 min boils for my darker beers though. I’m usually boiling 20-25 gallons. For me it is about break, and the rounding flavor I get. I feel my Pils beers have improved with the longer, less intense boil.
 
After years of boiling 60 min boils, I changed to 45 minute boils and have not noticed a difference in flavor or clarity. My beers usually sit for what most people would consider long secondaries though, for the fallout to happen.
 

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