DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters

[rkhanso]

I just picked up a used window A/C unit. Tested it in my basement and it works. Now to get the rest of the parts -- but that brings up some questions. I "skimmed" through this long thread, and someone asked, but I didn't see an answer... Using this system for a single fermenter. No need for the pex or fancy table/stand.

FYI - I'm using a Raspberry Pi and CraftbrePi to control the equipment and temps.

I have just a single Plastic Conical that I'll be cooling. Not the motorized valved 3-fermenter systems that others have built.

My plan is to have a small circulation pump to just move the water around inside the cooler to keep it mixed so the temp sensor of the 'tank' gets an accurate reading. Maybe a pump like THIS or THIS. This temp sensor would turn on the A/C unit as needed.

A larger pump in the cooler/tank - will circulate the chilled water through the immersion chiller in the fermenter. Maybe a pump like THIS or like THIS (maybe an 800gph model?). I'm not sure how many GPH or HP is needed to pump from the cooler through the chiller coils and back. Is a 25' or larger coil needed in a 15gal fermenter? I'm wondering if I can maybe make a DIY coil cheaper and have it only 10-20' long. But I'm not sure where to get SS tubing, or if it's cheaper than getting one pre-made. If a shorter chiller would work, I suspect a less powerful pump would be needed?

I guess it may not matter...I found a 25' length of 1/2" SS tubing for $48 shipped, online. I'd have to form it myself though. Shouldn't be too bad, right?

Or, might this be an option? Though it's only 3/8" SS Tubing.

 

[jddevinn]

I bought one of the ss coils from here (http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/12-Coils_c_25.html), looks like the prices have gone up a bit over the years. Others have coiled themselves but I didn't find it worth the effort. I tried to coil over a tube in a lathe at low speed and it didn't work too well..

For (3) conical s I use a 2400GPH pump https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X07GQS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1. While the capacity of those two pump look fine, the pressure rating does not look good.

 

[rkhanso]

I bought one of the ss coils from here (http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/12-Coils_c_25.html), looks like the prices have gone up a bit over the years. Others have coiled themselves but I didn't find it worth the effort. I tried to coil over a tube in a lathe at low speed and it didn't work too well..

For (3) conical s I use a 2400GPH pump https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X07GQS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1. While the capacity of those two pump look fine, the pressure rating does not look good.

Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to wonder if anyone watches this thread anymore.

The 2 pumps I linked to were just for pushing around the water/glycol mixture in the cooler, where the evaporator is submerged - I was thinking they would be enough for just mixing the solution to keep a consistent temp.

For a single 15-gallon conical, would a sump-type pump work OK with say, 1500gph capacity? Though I can't imagine pumping the coolant through the chiller coil at that fast of a rate. It seems overkill. Maybe a ball-valve to throttle back the flow?
I'm wondering if that might also be big enough to run a CIP ball.

 

[jddevinn]

Those pumps should work fine for that. I use one of a similar size in the sink to swirl water around yeast in the flask to chill. The pump size is really going to be dependent on the pressure drop through the cooling coil, you could always try a small one and up-size if needed. If I remember right I normally have 10-15psi back pressure on the line with one conical and my 'loop'.

I run a McmasterCarrr CIP ball https://www.mcmaster.com/71445t84 with the pump I linked in the last post.... again its going to be more dependent on pressure than flow (faucet water has plenty of flow but not enough pressure to CIP with).

 

[rkhanso]

FYI - I have a counter-flow chiller that is about 20' of 1/2" copper tubing. When you add the in/out silicone tubing, there's a little over 26' of 1/2 piping total. I have one of those little brown solar 12v pumps moving the near-boiling wort through that system, throttled down at the output with a ball-valve. If that little pump can handle pumping through that, wouldn't it also be able to handle pumping the glycol/water solution through this fermenter chiller system?

I realize that this pump (below) specifically would not work because it's not submersible. But it's not very big and it recirculates during mash and also pumps through my CFC (seen in my Avatar).

Is a 1/6 hp pump really needed? I'm not complaining...just trying to make sure I buy what will work without over-spending.

I found the following web page to calculate head to PSI. http://www.mydatabook.org/fluid-mechanics/pumps/head-to-pressure-converter/

I'm using the 2nd calculator - converting head to PSI.

I'm not sure what to use for the head number, but suspect it might be 30 since I'll have about 30' total of 1/2" tubing. Though that's not going vertically straight up 30'. The difference between the glycol tank and highest point in the system is only about 3' to 4'.

Does this mean I'll need (or have) 13-14 PSI? But that doesn't tell me how much GPH or GPM is needed.

This is confusing to me....someone not trained in fluid dynamics. We don't need this thing to pump more than say, 1 gallon per minute? 60GPH? Unless the vibrations from pumping 1500 GPH through the coil, making the coil vibrate helps agitate the beer

Here's the pump I use with my CFC:

 

[augiedoggy]

FYI - I have a counter-flow chiller that is about 20' of 1/2" copper tubing. When you add the in/out silicone tubing, there's a little over 26' of 1/2 piping total. I have one of those little brown solar 12v pumps moving the near-boiling wort through that system, throttled down at the output with a ball-valve. If that little pump can handle pumping through that, wouldn't it also be able to handle pumping the glycol/water solution through this fermenter chiller system?

I realize that this pump (below) specifically would not work because it's not submersible. But it's not very big and it recirculates during mash and also pumps through my CFC (seen in my Avatar).

Is a 1/6 hp pump really needed? I'm not complaining...just trying to make sure I buy what will work without over-spending.

I found the following web page to calculate head to PSI. http://www.mydatabook.org/fluid-mechanics/pumps/head-to-pressure-converter/

I'm using the 2nd calculator - converting head to PSI.

I'm not sure what to use for the head number, but suspect it might be 30 since I'll have about 30' total of 1/2" tubing. Though that's not going vertically straight up 30'. The difference between the glycol tank and highest point in the system is only about 3' to 4'.

Does this mean I'll need (or have) 13-14 PSI? But that doesn't tell me how much GPH or GPM is needed.

This is confusing to me....someone not trained in fluid dynamics. We don't need this thing to pump more than say, 1 gallon per minute? 60GPH? Unless the vibrations from pumping 1500 GPH through the coil, making the coil vibrate helps agitate the beer

Here's the pump I use with my CFC:

I use a bunch of these dc pumps (used to use the 12v but now use the stronger 24v version) I also use 2 chillers to pump a glycol mix for cooling 4 110gallon plastic conicals at work and 4 stainless conicals at home... if your just using these pumps to pump coolant into cooling coils and each fermenter has its own pump these work great, in fact they are almost the same pump the SSbrewtech system uses for this.
I however use a cpvc manifold with 4 $3 12-24v solenoid valves with a larger main pump which is much much stronger to be able to pump the coolant to multiple fermenters at once if multiple valves are open. both the pumps I use are the factory pumps found in the beverage line chillers when I got them. if you buy a chiller from places like ss brewtech they have the pumps removed before marking them up and charging more for less vs buying the same chiller from the company that makes and sells them as beerline chillers.

 

[rkhanso]

Thanks for that info augiedoggy. For now I just have the one fermenter and didn't see the need to pump hundreds of gallons per hour of glycol through the thing to just maintain temperatures. I'll look into the 24v versions of those pumps for a little more cushion.

Another question about the chiller.... Is 1/2" SS tubing important? Or, would 3/8" or even 1/4" work OK. I'm thinking of 25' length. My fermenter is in the garage and here in a Minnesota summer it can get 100F with high humidity, though we're usually not that hot.

Trying to get the last of the decisions buttoned up so I can get this thing built and brew soon.

 

[user 232000]

Hello Rkhanso,

I dont want to de-rail your current path, but I just went through an extensive crash coarse on building a glycol chiller and I can share my experience that may help you. I have had so much help from the brew community and in fact, reading this thread helped me go from zero knowledge to a working system. As my application is slightly different, I will just make a few observations.

I needed to cool down my kegs and keep them at 38+, and I went the SS tube route. Purchased an 8' section and used a hand bender from home depot, filled it with salt and bent it round and round small enough to fit inside a keg, then drilled & welded the SS ends through the lid. Long story short it kept the keg very cold easily, so keeping an ale at 65-70, dont worry about needing a lot of tubing. Initially I made everything from copper (so much easier to bend) but couldn't stand the thought of copper immersed in my beer for weeks at a time, just me I think. I ended up not using it anyway but that's another story, using a brew jacket now http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/conical-cooling-jacket.html


As for the pump, same thing I have a 14$ amazon 500gph, so cheap I have a backup on hand, and its plenty, again I'm keeping 5gal at 38. I am using 3/8" tubing.

Point I am trying to make is if you have a control system (I use BruControl) then your real issue is controlling the glycol temp (easy) getting the right ratio of glycol to water (some testing will help) and then the cycling rate of the pump is more important than having an excess of tubing. Yes surface contact is important, but unless your lagering, it is way easy to keep the wort at ale fermenting temps.BTW I am in south Florida, you all up there dont know what hot is....

One more thing to think about. if you have any plans on kegging and will hack a refrigerator to do it, you may want to combine the two. I have a 36qt plastic bin (HD $6) with 2 gal cycol 5 gal water (distilled) in my kegger freezer, I keep the glycol at 22 degrees and pump it around the keg using the cooling jacket made for conical fermentors. I have found about a 12 degree difference between the gylcol temp and the temp of my beer, that's the delta based on the length of the tubing + distance of connecting lines + insulation of those lines and ambient temp, so keeping your gycol at 40 will easily keep your fermentor at 68, cycling on and off. They key with your digital control is you can tweek the temps to give you the most efficient use of your system. Putting your fermentor in a insulated box (i.e son of a fermentation chiller style) would also allow you to hold temps easier and to add heat in the winter months which I have a really good and cheap design for you if you need that. I added my fermetor chamber inside my kegger fridge (hence the long story) so heat is as big a deal as cooling for me and for you all up north to brew year round.

Again, I just want to give you my 2 cents and maybe that will help you. Good luck.

KDAZ

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for that info augiedoggy. For now I just have the one fermenter and didn't see the need to pump hundreds of gallons per hour of glycol through the thing to just maintain temperatures. I'll look into the 24v versions of those pumps for a little more cushion.

Another question about the chiller.... Is 1/2" SS tubing important? Or, would 3/8" or even 1/4" work OK. I'm thinking of 25' length. My fermenter is in the garage and here in a Minnesota summer it can get 100F with high humidity, though we're usually not that hot.

Trying to get the last of the decisions buttoned up so I can get this thing built and brew soon.

I use brucontrol as well, I also use a brewjacket as well as blue discharge hose wrapped around the outside of my other 3 stainless conicals but for plastic the coil works better (tried the hose at the brewpub on the plastic conicals and it did not work as well)
I use 1/2" stainless coil but im sure for a smaller 3/8" stuff will work fine. I would NOT use copper.

 

[rkhanso]

Thanks for the input KDAZ and augiedoggy. I'm ready to pull the plug on purchasing the coil. I'll then have some parts to get for the controller build. I'm using CraftbeerPi to run the system. I've already used it with FlexWatt Heat stuff this past winter and it worked perfectly. That doesn't take much for power so a 10a relay is enough to run that. I'm upgrading to SSRs now to run the window A/C unit and getting more temp probes, power in/out and related jacks/plus installed as needed. Hoping to get it done by the end of the month.

 

[rkhanso]

Got the SS chiller coil in the mail today. It's too short - I think I should have ordered something else, or had something custom-made. A mistake in my part there.

It's shorter in height than I'd like. The place I bought it said I could get a custom-built one, but I'd have to pay shipping 2-ways again.

Or, is there a way that I can bend/adjust this myself without ruining it?

Vertical pieces 5-6" longer and more of the coils at the bottom instead of spread evenly.

It did come with some vinyl tubing and fittings. I suppose I could suspend it below the lid and have the vinyl tubing protrude in the fermenter through the lid. I'd have to make sure it seals really good so there's no glycol leakage in the beer.

 

[user 232000]

If its stainless, it will be hard to bend, but I would bet that you could increase the height by expanding each ring, maybe putting something in between each successive ring, let it sit and then a little larger etc, but honestly unless its really expensive, send it back and get what you need, and don't bend it until your sure as I doubt they will take it back if its not the same as they shipped.I am guessing you have already thought of this, so all I can add is I really think is not a good idea to make a connection inside the fermentor, it could leak (Murphy's law, if it can, it will) and bad yeast-ees could hide there. Let us know what you decide and good luck.

kdaz

 

[SaltPig]

Looking for some advice. I am using 1/4 HP aquarium chiller with a 10 gallon cooler to chill my fermenters. I have tried both water and a 1:2 Glycol/Water blend and both times I end up with some sort of microbial growth on the inside of the cooler after a few months.

Any tips and what I can add to the water to prevent this? I am never going below 38F so I don't really need the glycol. Would there been any harm in just using distilled water and iodophor?

 

[popatop]

Looking for some advice. I am using 1/4 HP aquarium chiller with a 10 gallon cooler to chill my fermenters. I have tried both water and a 1:2 Glycol/Water blend and both times I end up with some sort of microbial growth on the inside of the cooler after a few months.

Any tips and what I can add to the water to prevent this? I am never going below 38F so I don't really need the glycol. Would there been any harm in just using distilled water and iodophor?

Keep light away from water, glycol . Light can cause growth. As for temp if you are at 38 degree glycol that means 28 degree evap temp, you need the glycol. 30 % glycol would be better. To much glycol lowers heat transfer .

 

[rkhanso]

I powered up my CraftbeerPi fermenter controller with the window AC unit connected to it for the first time today. The air conditioner is having a hard time starting up. The AC unit works just fine when I have it plugged directly into the wall outlet.

I checked the SSR output at the plug on the controller box and it's switching on/off (well, 117 VAC and floating at something less because of the SSR leakage). But when the AC unit starts up... it's "chugging" and trying to get going.

Might my input cord on the controller box have too small gauge wiring? Might my SSR be bad? I'm sure it's wired correctly since it switches on/off using CraftbeerPi.

Help?


UPDATE - I put a beefier input/power cable into the control box and it still does the same thing. The compressor "chugs" for a bit, then stops, then tries again in a little bit with the same result. When I plug directly into the wall, the air conditioner still works perfectly.

I also confirmed the logic on the outlet for the AC unit (all 3 outlets on the control box, actually) are all set to GPIOSimple. They're not PWM.

 

[rkhanso]

Got it fixed - a bum SSR. Brand new and couldn't take the current, I guess.