Divorce and eventual relocation to Oahu Hawaii

[Rev2010]

So the wife and I were on vacation in Saint Martin recently and we had a talk. Her mood has been off for quite a while now and I basically had a fair idea of what was up. She told me she wants to divorce and to have a fresh start. We've been married for 10 years this August but have been together (living together) for 15 years. As much as it hurts I understand how she feels and everything is completely amicable. It'll be a clean divorce (no assets, no children, no joint bank account, etc).

Anyhow, I've been wanting to move to Hawaii for many years now. We've been there 8 times. I will be saving money for the next 7 months before moving, was planning on also either borrowing from or cashing out my 401K to buy a small condo or something (I know the arguments against doing that but I have no choice). The thing is, I've never relocated anywhere but from Brooklyn NY to Bayonne NJ so I was wondering if anyone has advice about how to do something like this when the destination is so far away. I know I will need to take a trip before hand to look at properties and settle on buying one, how long would I need to do this? Would a week be sufficient? Two weeks? Outside of mailing address change would I need to do anything with the local state government (like register my residence or just arrive and start living life cause it's still the USA?). - probably a really stupid question as I didn't need to do anything when I moved to Jersey.

I have already decided, based off the vast majority of advice I've received so far, to sell off pretty much all my stuff and only keep important things that matter the world to me to make the move as light as possible. Eventually I'll be selling off all my brewing equipment and the vast majority of my music gear - I need to get my life together first and can start my brewing again later.

Anyhow, if anyone can lend any advice I would be extremely grateful!


Rev.

 

[Sammy86]

So the wife and I were on vacation in Saint Martin recently and we had a talk. Her mood has been off for quite a while now and I basically had a fair idea of what was up. She told me she wants to divorce and to have a fresh start. We've been married for 10 years this August but have been together (living together) for 15 years. As much as it hurts I understand how she feels and everything is completely amicable. It'll be a clean divorce (no assets, no children, no joint bank account, etc).

Anyhow, I've been wanting to move to Hawaii for many years now. We've been there 8 times. I will be saving money for the next 7 months before moving, was planning on also either borrowing from or cashing out my 401K to buy a small condo or something (I know the arguments against doing that but I have no choice). The thing is, I've never relocated anywhere but from Brooklyn NY to Bayonne NJ so I was wondering if anyone has advice about how to do something like this when the destination is so far away. I know I will need to take a trip before hand to look at properties and settle on buying one, how long would I need to do this? Would a week be sufficient? Two weeks? Outside of mailing address change would I need to do anything with the local state government (like register my residence or just arrive and start living life cause it's still the USA?). - probably a really stupid question as I didn't need to do anything when I moved to Jersey.

I have already decided, based off the vast majority of advice I've received so far, to sell off pretty much all my stuff and only keep important things that matter the world to me to make the move as light as possible. Eventually I'll be selling off all my brewing equipment and the vast majority of my music gear - I need to get my life together first and can start my brewing again later.

Anyhow, if anyone can lend any advice I would be extremely grateful!


Rev.

Very sorry to hear about the divorce but this move to Hawaii will definitely be an adventure.

You can definitely find a new place in a week...make sure you contact some local agents so they will have some properties to show you as soon as you arrive.

I would definitely try to sell as much as you can...my FIL just moved across the country from CT to CA and sold about 90% of his stuff.

Also, no you don't have to register...Hawaii is America...will you need a drivers license? I'd hit up the DMV ASAP.

When you're ready to sell some of your brew gear let me know.

Cheers to your new adventure!

 

[Stillraining]

If I'm reading the web site correctly...I believe you will have to change health Insurance though...Looks Like NJ Is self ran just like Washington State is...Hawaii is full on Obama care. You will also have to register to vote in Hawaii.

I wish you Good luck in your new chapter of life Mate!.

 

[Rev2010]

If I'm reading the web site correctly...I believe you will have to change health Insurance though...Looks Like NJ Is self ran just like Washington State is...Hawaii is full on Obama care.

Good point, didn't think about health insurance. So here's the deal, I get my insurance through my employer, of course I pay as well each pay check. When I quit my job and do the move I won't have any insurance until I land a job, providing the job offers insurance. Is there any sort of legal issue with not have insurance for a month or possibly two?


Rev.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Good point, didn't think about health insurance. So here's the deal, I get my insurance through my employer, of course I pay as well each pay check. When I quit my job and do the move I won't have any insurance until I land a job, providing the job offers insurance. Is there any sort of legal issue with not have insurance for a month or possibly two?


Rev.

I think you'll just have to pay a prorated fine come tax season.

<-- not a CPA

 

[sniktaw]

I've moved from Arkansas to Denver and back and it can be a pain. I can think three things I'd recommend:

1. An official copy of your birth certificate and your ss card. Ideally your passport as well. Different states have different rules for establishing your identity and I can assure you, you don't want to be stuck in Hawaii needing a birth certificate from NY/NJ.

2. A stock pile of any odd things you use regularly, i.e. prescriptions, high end coffee, etc. Sometimes it can take a surprisingly long time to find a new supplier of the random odds and ends we get used to having.

3. Check and recheck laws regarding weapons in your new home state, if you any. Even knives and such are regulated slightly differently at times, and it is unpleasant to say the least if you accidentally mess up.

Good luck and I hope the adjustment goes easily

 

[Bilsch]

Congratulations on your newfound freedom and move to paradise.
Sorry to hear about having to sell your brewing gear.

 

[kramer2500]

Rev2010, before you sell anything, talk to your divorce attorney and see what implications it will have on your divorce. Depending on the state, you might need your soon to be ex-wife's permission to sell anything before the divorce is final (and then she can claim part of those funds). I know you stated it would be amicable, but divorce messes with people in weird ways. My ex and I sat down before we went to the attorneys, divided everything up, came up with a schedule and I thought it would be done quickly. That was 2 1/2 yrs ago and it still isnt done...

*I am not a divorce attorney. I am just stating what happened to me and happened to several of my friends.*

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

First, congrats on your divorce! I know, of course, that this seems like a strange thing to say. But I'm going through my own divorce right now, and I can tell you that being OUT of a bad marriage is better than struggling through a bad marriage. In my own life I was very, very happy. Everything with my career, to my hobbies/interests, to my kids, etc was all going the way I wanted it to *except* being stuck in a loveless marriage. Now I have all those wonderful things, and frankly being divorced without any "female companionship" would have been an improvement over being married. But I was lucky enough to find a wonderful girl and I'm already happier than I've been in the last 5+ years.

Second, as others have stated, make sure that you understand the divorce process in New Jersey. My ex and I have actually been pretty amicable as divorces go, but due to our financial situation we were stuck living in the same house for over three months while we dealt with the attempted refinance and eventual sale of our house. By the end of those three months, we were not nearly as amicable. As others point out, depending on your situation there are all sorts of legals ins and outs involved. And as mentioned, make sure you get her approval ***in writing*** (I suppose email is fine, it doesn't need to be notarized) if you are going to be selling any assets or making any big financial moves. And depending on your divorce and the local laws, you might still be married in 7 months. In CA there is a 6 month "cooling off" period, so despite the fact that my ex and I are now living apart, sharing custody of the kids, and for all intents and purposes appear to be 100% divorced, we actually will not be legally divorced until September 5. And some divorces can get nasty and go on several years.

Third, are you sure this is a good idea? I mean moving to Hawaii and buying property, not getting divorced (I am SURE that's a good idea lol!)... Hawaii is an amazing place to visit. I actually just got back from there. But there are a lot of downsides to living there. It's expensive as heck, the job prospects are limited depending what you do for a living, you're mostly STUCK there without a lot of places to go, etc. I know the weather is good, but hey, the weather is great in San Diego too, and the beer is better there! Just want to make sure you're 100% sure that Hawaii is the place for you. And beyond that, you really might want to consider renting for a little while unless you buy a condo/house that would make a good rental property. Even if you're 100% sure that Hawaii is the place for you, taking an extra year of renting to save and figure out exactly where on the island you want to live may be a smart move, and you're not forcing yourself into a serious time crunch to select a property.

Fourth, I've moved cross-country several times. It's really not all that difficult. The postal service will handle mail forwarding (you can do this online), you don't need to deal with your driver's license until you arrive, etc. I wouldn't have thought of the insurance thing, but I would highly suggest trying to look for jobs there (again, depending what you do for a living) *before* you move to help with the insurance.

Finally, you need to set the expectation both verbally and with your behavior with your soon-to-be-ex to make sure it stays amicable. In my bad marriage, there were a lot of things I wanted to say that I bit my tongue because I was keeping a marriage together. Once you lose that, it's a lot easier to say mean and hurtful things and even though it might feel good for a few minutes, it does NOT help the situation. Be the bigger man, ALL the time, because there's no benefit to either of you to being mean and spiteful. Yes, she said she wants out. That doesn't make the divorce her fault. It's neither of your fault and both of your fault, and now that you've both agreed it's not working and time to split, there's no reason to let all that past pain of the marriage affect you now.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. My situation is probably a bit more complex due to the kids, but I'm happy to help with any advice I can...

 

[Aristotelian]

Yes, going without insurance can be devastating financially.

Depending on your field, look into lining up some job interviews. While interviewing you could look at properties. It is possible they will pay for your move and then you will have a seamless health coverage.

I would rent before buying. Yes, you can buy a house in a week, but will it be a good house that you want to live in for the next 5-10 years? There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting in a new place. Get your life in order, get to know the island, then take your time and buy the perfect house. Buying a house is the biggest financial decision you can ever make. You are much more likely to make a bad decision if you give yourself a compressed timeframe.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Sorry to hear this Rev. Clean slate is what I'd do in that situation (knock on wood)

We can all come out and party at your new beach house. HBT Fest 2017!!!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I'd also recommend renting, even if it's on a month by month basis or a short term lease. This keeps you from being more limited on where your job will be limited, new relationships, etc. I had visited Chicago countless times before I moved here but didn't have a freaking clue where I wanted to buy. Took me three leases to figure that out.

If you are going to see a realtor to buy or rent, just be sure to make contact before hand and explain what you are looking for well in advance. Ideally they could set up plenty of viewings so you can get the most out of your trip. First time I bought a place I looked at about 25 places. Second time, well, 1. Anyways, you never know what you're looking at until you see it in person.

Insurance is a big one. I'd do everything humanly possible to have employment and insurance set up before the move. Say you have a fairly simple accident during the move (I dropped a wine refrigerator on my leg and foot when I first moved to Chicago, for instance). I didn't have insurance, cost me about $600 out of pocket for twenty some stitches. Not a horrible amount but still pricey and that's on the cheap end. If it had happened 4 days later it would have been covered.

And I know you don't want to hear it but I'd try to refrain from borrowing money from a 401k. Or at least set up very very aggressive payback terms. We had to do this to finance a big renovation for a new home even though it was well against my principles, but we were aggressive with the payback term and made it work.

Best of luck on this. Sorry to hear about it, but you've got it figured out and it's for the best.

 

[Rev2010]

And as mentioned, make sure you get her approval ***in writing*** (I suppose email is fine, it doesn't need to be notarized) if you are going to be selling any assets

We don't have any assets, I'm selling my music equipment and brewing equipment, all paid for with my own money. I know many people have had vindictive wives that wanted to make their lives miserable through a divorce but everyone can trust me... my wife doesn't want a dime from me. She wants me to be happy and be able to support myself. If it came down to a fight about money trust me, *I* have more to gain from her. It's not going to happen. And she wants all my stuff gone anyway lol, she's always complained how my hobbies take up all the space in the house.

Third, are you sure this is a good idea? I mean moving to Hawaii

No real way to know until I do it I've been wanting to move there for years. I feel way more alive when I'm there than when I am here in NYC/NJ. But who knows, might be different when I'm there alone. I will say though that I have no friends here. Well ok I now have 1 friend who I only met a like 2 months ago. All my other friends of the past either moved away or are hermits that don't ever want to hang out. So also getting a new start to make friends over there is something that I desperately need.

you really might want to consider renting for a little while

I've have indeed decided to rent, just makes much much more sense. I'll have 2 years worth of money (I did the math) as a safety net rather than losing close to half on a down payment plus if things don't work out I can simply leave without any commitment to a 30 year mortgage.

Thanks so much for the advice and words of encouragement! We're still on excellent terms and we both do love each other very much, it's just that she needs more in a marriage and I understand her perspective. Of course there's always a chance things could go south but I honestly don't think that will happen. And with the decision to rent instead of buy I can likely move there earlier than expected.

As for insurance, well that's gonna be something I'm going to have to risk. Unless ObamaCare is affordable enough I will be without insurance until I get a job with coverage. But like I said, I will have a good amount of money in the bank. Perhaps I can get on one of my family members insurance (mother or brother) and just pay them the extra cost until I get my own. I think that could work well.


Rev.

 

[Calichusetts]

Hope you have factored in the much higher standard of living in Hawaii...everyday items are so much more expensive, and sometimes the "basics" you come to love won't be there at all.

 

[Rev2010]

Hope you have factored in the much higher standard of living in Hawaii...everyday items are so much more expensive, and sometimes the "basics" you come to love won't be there at all.

I get people saying this a lot, constantly actually, and more often than not the person saying it has never been there or has only been there on their Honeymoon (which are always expensive as people are being lavish).

Please don't interpret this in any way as being rude as that is not my intent in any way, but I live in Jersey and work and spend most of my "play time" in Manhattan and Manhattan is insanely expensive - I'd say more so than Hawaii. The price of eating out and drinking while somewhat close is typically less in Hawaii than in Manhattan, at least for the 8 times I've been there.

As for daily life, things such as cable TV and cell phone bills are the same, I've checked. Most rentals include several utilities, at base they include electricity, gas, water, sewage. Some even include basic cable and some even high speed internet. I'm planning that I will need to pay my own cable and internet. Outside of utilities and food how much else is there? I've thought long and hard about it and yeah there's soap, toothpaste, cleaning supplies, laundry, etc but they aren't going to be exorbitantly higher than what we pay here. As far as food, I kept myself fed when I was much younger and was making less than 30K a year and I can manage on a budget if necessary again. Hawaii has plenty of Burger King's, Taco Bell's, McDonald's, KFC's, etc and they all still have lower cost value menus. Yes they're a little more expensive then here but you can still fill up for $5 total, or at least I can . Besides that, I love seafood and seafood seems to be readily available and lower cost than such things as beef. I know things such as milk are more expensive but I don't really ever use it anyway. I also plan to be pretty localized and use the public transportation system or bike ride to areas within distance.

So overall, what is there that is really so insanely expensive? Perhaps buying brewing equipment or music equipment costs more but at the moment those things are of the least concern to me. And I did look at the local music store's websites and see the same prices as we have here.

So overall yes the price on some things will be elevated and the price on other things lower. Shipping anything to HI will be clearly more expensive but I don't really plan to be buying myself things. Most important point is I can survive on a minimal life style if need be and right now my only concern is a roof over my head, food in my stomach, and being able to still have a few beers, all of which I can certainly manage.


Rev.

 

[TurfinUSA]

If you have a pet that you can't live without and intend to take, check their laws on quarantine periods. Other than that, Pomaika`i

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Over 20 years ago I was in your situation. Moved to a place that I had visited, drained the 401K, and had no job or insurance. Today, I can say the only regret was draining the 401K. Don't know your age but I wish I would have started a 401K earlier than I did back then. If at all possible try to do it without the 401K.

 

[Rev2010]

Over 20 years ago I was in your situation. Moved to a place that I had visited, drained the 401K, and had no job or insurance. Today, I can say the only regret was draining the 401K. Don't know your age but I wish I would have started a 401K earlier than I did back then. If at all possible try to do it without the 401K.

I'm 42. My problem is that I always felt I had a secure life situation and the wife and I loved to travel in addition to me having a music and brewing hobby... so I never really saved any money. I only actually started to save from the paycheck right before that recent vacation we took. I obviously now see how foolish that was and have learned from it for the future. As a result however, the only way I can ensure a safety net is to use that money. I could perhaps go with a minimal amount and then take it out later if it becomes an absolute necessity, though would it work the same way withdrawing from an IRA? Leaving my current job I'd need to roll it into something until I had another 401K to put it into. The good news is I have ZERO debt. No outstanding credit cards or anything and my credit rating is phenomenal.

There's part of me that just knows the stock markets will once again tank before I get to retirement age and all that money will be lost anyhow. Don't know what it is but I just have a feeling that is going to happen.

@TurfinUSA - I know about the quarantine and the procedures to get one's dog through with minimal detaining, but I won't be going with my dog. We had two, one became too old and had to be put to sleep two years ago because he would fall and couldn't get up and injured himself bad one time. He was my dog, had him before I met her, he was 17.5 years old. Our other dog she paid for and is 13 this July. He is staying with her. Insanely sad to have to leave him, but that's life and he's in good hands.


Rev.

 

[Stillraining]

There's part of me that just knows the stock markets will once again tank before I get to retirement age and all that money will be lost anyhow. Don't know what it is but I just have a feeling that is going to happen.

Listen to that small voice.....You can take this to the Bank..It will indeed happen again. Rather you will loose it all is debatable, but you will loose a lot when it does go south again.

I'm so fed up with our state of affairs I'm spending it all, and will let Obama take care of me in the end, its all free after all, insist it??

I'm not qualified to give financial advice, just so you know. Its just my outlook has changed over the last 30 years of watching my hard work go to crap by forces out of my control.. Live for today, let tomorrow worry about itself.

If I might make a suggestion... Keep your 401K...Buy a sail boat and live on that..screw property taxes .... OH sorry wrong Forum. Just planting ideas in your head is all...Its your life.
Hope to toss the dock lines myself here in another 5 years. Being self employed I have no retirement plan fund to concern myself with anyway, so what do I know.

Carry on mate.

 

[JB_Brewing2]

I'm 42. My problem is that I always felt I had a secure life situation and the wife and I loved to travel in addition to me having a music and brewing hobby... so I never really saved any money. I only actually started to save from the paycheck right before that recent vacation we took. I obviously now see how foolish that was and have learned from it for the future. As a result however, the only way I can ensure a safety net is to use that money. I could perhaps go with a minimal amount and then take it out later if it becomes an absolute necessity, though would it work the same way withdrawing from an IRA? Leaving my current job I'd need to roll it into something until I had another 401K to put it into. The good news is I have ZERO debt. No outstanding credit cards or anything and my credit rating is phenomenal.

There's part of me that just knows the stock markets will once again tank before I get to retirement age and all that money will be lost anyhow. Don't know what it is but I just have a feeling that is going to happen.

@TurfinUSA - I know about the quarantine and the procedures to get one's dog through with minimal detaining, but I won't be going with my dog. We had two, one became too old and had to be put to sleep two years ago because he would fall and couldn't get up and injured himself bad one time. He was my dog, had him before I met her, he was 17.5 years old. Our other dog she paid for and is 13 this July. He is staying with her. Insanely sad to have to leave him, but that's life and he's in good hands.


Rev.

I understand and can empathize with your situation. I took off overseas for a year when I was your age and never regretted it. You may already know this but the IRS is going to ask you for possibly at least 50% of your withdrawal. I am not a tax expert but that is what happened when I withdrew mine years ago. Salting some of that away to avoid IRS penalties might be prudent.

All in all, I wish you the very best and meant no words of discouragement. Thinking of the time I did similarly what you're setting out to do is often fondly recalled.

 

[Rev2010]

You may already know this but the IRS is going to ask you for possibly at least 50% of your withdrawal.

Yep, I know this very well, however it's not 50% and certainly not more. I've done the math. There's the 10% early withdrawal penalty plus a 25% federal withholding for federal taxes. However, the withdrawal counts as income so it pushes me into the 28% federal tax bracket. Then there's the state tax which is about 6% . So I will lose an even 44%. But overall it's still not even a half years worth of my current salary earnings! I personally cant see how less than one half year of my current salary earning would make for a retirement nest egg, especially considering the super low percentage profit rate I'm earning in it. Right now my year to date profit is 1.2% cause the stocks keep tanking and I'm on a stable investment, nothing risky. My highest rate has been like 5% in the past. This is why I won't put my own cash into it. My company contributes 10% of my yearly salary into the plan, which is rare these days but they cut corners everywhere else with pathetic raises (were talking 2% for exceeds expectations reviews which I always get) and pathetic bonuses.

So overall, yeah I'll lose nearly 31k, but in the grand scheme of things I don't honestly think my life will be forever damaged having lost 31k of 401K money.


Rev.

 

[Stillraining]

Well yes and no..31k at 5% for 30 years is about 135K left were it is if you can get by without it..Contradictory to my last post I know..Just playing devils advocate here.

Other side of the coin is, what can you turn that 31K into now to better that rate of return. Probably lots of things...But you never know.

Just curious whats your occupation/trade? Hawaii can be a tough gig.

AFWIW..For most of us our house ( which it seems is your plan using this money for) is our one biggest asset/investment...but if you really do the math its more a forced savings account. The return insist always any better and often worse then your 5% 401k.....House flipping professionals or windfall spot markets not included.

From my experience you have to be willing to sell your home when the market is hot..rather this is when you want to actually move or not, to really make any money on houses. Problem with that is all the other replacement houses are hot too, so you have to be willing to relocate to some different demographic to keep this cycle going... I hate moving.......My house will be the one I die in. YMMV Just saying a house is not necessarily worth dumping a different investment over. But can be.....They come with just as may risks/low returns IMHO. And you will no longer be debt free. No pulling all your money out wont ruin your life...but buying a house can..

Bottom line you can enjoy a house today..its hard to enjoy untouchable money in the bank today. Life is full of contradictions.

Carry on

 

[Rev2010]

Just curious whats your occupation/trade? Hawaii can be a tough gig.

I'm an IT Tech, I work as a Senior Desktop Support & Network Technician for a top international law firm. Been doing this for 16 years, between two top law firms (8 years each). I've looked on various sites and have seen many IT jobs listed in Oahu, and then there's always military contracting as an option.


Rev.

 

[Stillraining]

Id say your in good shape to do then whatever you wanted to do with your money...Being a lowly ditch digger my options are more limited. And recovery for my actions takes longer.

I wish you the best of luck...Look for me to sail into harbor one of these days we will share a beer on your Lani and laugh about this threrad

 

[thereverendmaynard]

Why not roll the 401k over into a ira - and rent for a year. Save a few bucks and then take out a mortgage once you find the right place.

this way you defer taking the hit from the penalties and taxes, and you get the benefit of learning what location you want.

Interest rates are low - your credit is good. If you can get the mortgage you would be better off - since now you wont lose all that money to uncle sam (in penalties, taxes etc). You can always take the money from the ira later if its an emergency.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Talk to an accountant haha.

So many options. So many different circumstances.

 

[Pappers_]

Regarding the insurance, I would at least consider getting some kind of inexpensive catastrophic coverage in the interim. If you had an accident and were hospitalized, you wouldn't be bankrupt. It doesn't cover any of the stuff that we mostly use insurance for - checkups, well-care, testing of this or that. But if you were seriously laid up or were diagnosed with a life-threatning illness, that's when it kicks in and you won't owe $100s of thousands.

 

[singybrue]

Talk to your HR dept about COBRA insurance. This allows you to stay on your current employers insurance plan for 6 months(I think), but you have to pay the full premium cost.

 

[Rev2010]

Why not roll the 401k over into a ira - and rent for a year.

I actually have indeed been thinking about that! Mostly because if I take it out this year, with my current salary, it will push me into the 28% bracket. That's only 3% more but then there's state tax which would be higher. Being my salary will likely be lower in Hawaii than here there's a chance it might stay in the 25% bracket. Either way though, I wouldn't have to deal with the taxes until 2018 if I pulled it out in January.

@singybrue - COBRA is going to be maaad expensive! Probably like $500-600 a month.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

Just a heads up since some mentioned interest - I've listed my stuff in the classified forum.


Rev.