Distilling Legally? opinion, thoughts or ideas.

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Jako

Jako

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So i was talking about Distilling at work this afternoon not in a serious way. But then i started to think. So i started to dig around looking a federal law and local to my state in Utah. yes i could probably buy equipment and hide away in my basement, but i like to do things by the book.

I ended up sending a long email to the state asking if someone could distill on a hobby level. In my state its all in or nothing. For me i don't find that very fair (hah i know life is not fair) maybe i will get a reply but i highly doubt it.

What are others doing? can we even talk about this or should i code this thread... Just kidding.
 
day_trippr said:
There is a distilling forum on HBT https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/forums/distilling.281/
I don't know what participants are up to over there but it should be in your ball park I expect...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thank you, i was hoping to talk about it as a whole community. As i am sure a lot of brewers are interested as i am but never look into it any more due to Legal reasons. Also the general section has a LOT more traffic.
 
Sure, there's a lot more traffic - it's "General" :)
But when there's a specific forum for a topic, it seems to me that's the best place to conduct bidness, rather than clogging up the General forum with discussions that frankly few are interested in (I think you're seriously overestimating interest there).

But that's me. Vaya con Dios...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
Sure, there's a lot more traffic - it's "General" :)
But when there's a specific forum for a topic, it seems to me that's the best place to conduct bidness, rather than clogging up the General forum with discussions that frankly few are interested in (I think you're seriously overestimating interest there).

But that's me. Vaya con Dios...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I will do that. Thank you for the advise.

Could i have a mod remove this thread.

wooo! thank you very much.
 
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It's either fully licensed and 100% legal....or it's not. You can decide the path that you want to go down.

You may have put your name on a list with your email....
 
Jako said:
So i was talking about Distilling at work this afternoon not in a serious way. But then i started to think. So i started to dig around looking a federal law and local to my state in Utah. yes i could probably buy equipment and hide away in my basement, but i like to do things by the book.

I ended up sending a long email to the state asking if someone could distill on a hobby level. In my state its all in or nothing. For me i don't find that very fair (hah i know life is not fair) maybe i will get a reply but i highly doubt it.

What are others doing? can we even talk about this or should i code this thread... Just kidding.
Click to expand...
Federal law supersedes any state or local laws. States and localities may be more strict, but not less. Federal law provides no exemptions for the production of distilled spirits for personal or family use.

These may provide additional info:
https://www.clawhammersupply.com/blogs/moonshine-still-blog/7155304-is-making-moonshine-legal
https://www.whiskeystillpro.com/blo...h-about-us-law-and-distilling-alcohol-at-home

There is also a Hobby Distiller's Association that has a state-by-state break down of home distilling laws. This groups is working to get personal use exemptions for hobby distilling.
https://hobbydistillersassociation.org/
 
lump42 said:
Federal law supersedes any state or local laws. States and localities may be more strict, but not less. Federal law provides no exemptions for the production of distilled spirits for personal or family use.

These may provide additional info:
https://www.clawhammersupply.com/blogs/moonshine-still-blog/7155304-is-making-moonshine-legal
https://www.whiskeystillpro.com/blo...h-about-us-law-and-distilling-alcohol-at-home

There is also a Hobby Distiller's Association that has a state-by-state break down of home distilling laws. This groups is working to get personal use exemptions for hobby distilling.
https://hobbydistillersassociation.org/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information! Greatly appreciated! I will differently take a look.
 
until recently, even homebrewing beer was illegal in utah.....it's illegal to distill, it's illegal to even freeze concentrate.....it's stupid, but it's the law...

edit: but i've heard there's a way to get a license from the ATF to distill for fuel....
 
bracconiere said:
until recently, even homebrewing beer was illegal in utah.....it's illegal to distill, it's illegal to even freeze concentrate.....it's stupid, but it's the law...

edit: but i've heard there's a way to get a license from the ATF to distill for fuel....
Click to expand...

Yeah no kidding. Thanks for the tip I might look into. If it's not expensive then I might be a good direction to go.
 
bracconiere said:
until recently, even homebrewing beer was illegal in utah.....it's illegal to distill, it's illegal to even freeze concentrate.....it's stupid, but it's the law..
Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean by recently. If I remember correctly, home brewing became legal in spring of 2009.

The biggest brewing supply store in Utah was around before that. It was perfectly legal to buy, sell, own, etc things like yeast, barley, hops because they have many other uses (I've heard that bakeries buy more of the bulk extract than brewers do).

Freeze concentration is different from distillation and the legality is much fuzzier. It's actually allowed to a point (the legal phrase is de minimus).
 
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it should be legal to distill fuel with the necessary permits. Just don't tell too many people if you use the fuel to fuel the body.

That said in South Africa we have a weird way of dealing with it. It is legal to distill any alcohol if you either do it on a hobby level and register your still, or join the historic distilling society and apply for a permit. Also you can buy Mapmoer (unaged, unoaked fruit brandy) in most liquor stores.
 
Jako said:
I ended up sending a long email to the state asking if someone could distill on a hobby level. In my state its all in or nothing. For me i don't find that very fair (hah i know life is not fair) maybe i will get a reply but i highly doubt it.

What are others doing? can we even talk about this or should i code this thread... Just kidding.
Click to expand...

Fairness regarding alcohol? That's pretty funny. Here in PA, the state agency that deals with alcohol is called the Liquor Control Board. But what they really want to control is the citizens, obviously you can't be trusted. The powers that be have always sought to control who wins and who loses in the alcohol business. Be thankful that you can make your own beer wine and cider without the tax man coming around.
Not too long ago, the HBT admins would delete posts if you mentioned distilling with heat but allowed discussion of freeze distilling. That restriction was relaxed so now we're permitted to talk about it.
I'm not going to recommend violating state and Federal laws, but if you're not selling home made liquor, who is going to know about it?
I make my own beer, wine and cider partly because I think my product is better than what I can buy commercially and partly because I think $12 for a six pack of low alcohol IPA/Lager is a ridiculous price. I have excess apple and pear juice that I'd like to try to make brandy with, but the additional equipment I'd need and the time involved just don't add up for me, its not worth it.
So if you have the time and the cash for the equipment , go for it and don't talk about it and you'll be fine.

:mug:
 
madscientist451 said:
but if you're not selling home made liquor, who is going to know about it?
Click to expand...


not necessarily true....a few years back, here in tucson, the news did a piece where the police were doing a wellfare check, smelled what they thought could be a meth lab. naturally went in, and the guy got busted for distilling....the cops had no idea what to do with him, so called in the ATF....
 
Well Ok, if you're running a still, don't have kids around that could generate a welfare check; it would be best if you throw everyone out and just stay home and make booze.
:bott:
 
Being tight lipped on home distilling is easy for me. Are there concerns about ordering distilling equipment?
 
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Here is the thing with buying a built Still. The store is required to keep records if selling distilling equipment. Those records are produced on demand, no warrant needed. The ATF or some other 3 letter faction can then "if they have the resources" Knock on your door and ask to see your Still and look around for jars of ??? Chances of that happening are very slim, thus far. They still have pot smokers to beat up and steal their possessions. So you can order A Still and be in the records...Just as there was a time when One ordered a grow light, you would 'blip' on the radar. There are gives and takes. I have an electric one gallon that is for "ahemm" distilling water. You know how much brewers need clean water or if you are venturing into holistic health and wanting to create herbal extracts.
I think if one of those 'so called' friends were to want to make trouble for you, that would be more of an issue than buying a Still online from a myriad of retailers, catching you in the middle of it. I know a deputy and a C.O who both have Stills. Just because friends of them "spill the beans" or mention it because I brew and it seems to come up in conversation at times. FWIW Order one send it to your GF's address, just don't tell your wife....LOL
 
They may have list of what you bought, where's their list of what you sold? You had that yardsale last summer, right? I don't know or care what you may do in your "shed". Don't tell, don't sell, and stay off the radar. I get mine from a guy that knows a guy who was passing thru.
 
Distill for fuel ... the highest proof is best to add to gasoline for the lawnmower.
Water is not a good thing to add to gasoline.
A fuel distilling permit is free.
It is way easier to get caught distilling alcohol that it is to get caught drinking it.
Get the federal permit!
 
greywolf said:
They may have list of what you bought, where's their list of what you sold? You had that yardsale last summer, right? I don't know or care what you may do in your "shed". Don't tell, don't sell, and stay off the radar. I get mine from a guy that knows a guy who was passing thru.
Click to expand...
The fact you bought it can bring some snoopy federal agent around to see what you are doing with it.
If he looks thru the window or over the fence and sees your still being heated you are busted!
Get the free permit for distilling fuel and avoid all that.
 
Willee said:
Distill for fuel ... the highest proof is best to add to gasoline for the lawnmower.
Water is not a good thing to add to gasoline.
A fuel distilling permit is free.
It is way easier to get caught distilling alcohol that it is to get caught drinking it.
Get the federal permit!
Click to expand...

Distilling for fuel comes with a bunch of regulations on how you have to store both your still and your product, requirements that you denature the distilled alcohol, etc. So, even with that permit, if you're distilling for consumption you're still breaking the law. Why would you put yourself on a list telling the feds that you have a still if you're just going to break the law with it???
 
rsquared said:
Distilling for fuel comes with a bunch of regulations on how you have to store both your still and your product, requirements that you denature the distilled alcohol, etc. So, even with that permit, if you're distilling for consumption you're still breaking the law. Why would you put yourself on a list telling the feds that you have a still if you're just going to break the law with it???
Click to expand...
It is not my understanding that I MUST denature what I distill for fuel.
Law is Law and with a permit it is NOT illegal for me to distill.
For everyone else not having one it is.
What I do with it afterward could possibly violate a LAW but that would need to be proven.

As for putting myself on a list ... Isnt everyone posting here alerting the feds as to what they are doing?
Do you think it is hard for them to find out who and where you are?
If the FED's really wanted to come after a home hobby distiller they would have a field day here.
It is so easy to catch someone distilling ... A whole lot harder to catch them drinking what they distill.

Have you ever heard of anyone with a fuel permit distilling less than 6 proof gallons a year that has ever been bothered by the feds?
 
Willee said:
As for putting myself on a list ... Isnt everyone here alerting the feds as to what they are doing?
Click to expand...


damn, lol, i'd be in deep **** in the howmany gallons brewed threads.....i'd have to say yeah, i brew more then 100 gallons a year, but i swear i drink it all myself! :D (you can tell by the evidence!)
 
RevA said:
At this stage if you distill and you are caught just explain you are making alcohol based hand sanitizer.
Click to expand...
Without a permit the Fed's can bust you for distilling alcohol regardless.
That is the federal law ... it is illegal to distill alcohol ... unless you have a permit.
Technically and legally freezing beer and pouring off the alcohol is distilling and is illegal.
I have never heard of anyone that has ever been hassled for that.
 
I don't know that talking about distillation as a process and a practice is illegal. Whether anyone on this forum actually distills alcohol by the moon or distills alcohol at their kitchen counter is not anything that could be determined by chatter any more than me swearing that the check is in the mail means that the check is in the mail. And that said, my money is on the fact that anyone who purchases a still from Amazon or one of the bricks and mortar stores is probably noted by the Feds, anyway. Hard to imagine that they will be willing or eager to expend very scarce resources chasing down home distillers who might make a few gallons of spirits, worth a few dollars in unpaid excise taxes when there are so many rich and powerful people who illegally fail to pay their millions in taxes. But I guess if home distillers are viewed as low hanging fruit that might be a different story.
 
bernardsmith said:
And that said, my money is on
Click to expand...


my money is on the hope the coppers are just trying to fight drug dealers like me.....(yeah i know shaky ground, i remeber an episode of some doc with mike rowe at a distillery, he said now that i know this i could make my own....the distiller promptly, and sternly said "we'll see that never happens"....i just just thought to myself, i hate drug dealers!) :mug:
 
Different issue, I know, and it is one of my hobby horses: the "war on drugs" has been as much a success in "solving" recreational drug use as prohibition was a century ago in "solving" drinking behaviors disliked by the powerful. All the focus on drugs and "dealers" has done is to have transformed the USA into incarcerating the largest number of people (per 100,000) of any - any - nation on this planet, and creating the world's largest prison population by far, about 2.5 million men, women and juveniles (or just under 1 in 100 people; figures are from 2016). Not even China comes close and of these perhaps 1 or 2 percent have ever been found guilty by trial - the vast , vast majority plea bargain so they never go to trial, their sentences are fixed and are not subject to appeal. We call that criminal justice.
 
i'd have to tip you a sub so we can talk like that......i don't spend much time, in the cider forum so don't notice most of your posts....but if you want, i'd love to share a twelve pack($25) with you....
 
Just so you're aware, freezing and removing alcohol is not distilling. This has been verified via ATF.
Distilling is just that, distillation.
 

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