I figure I am down to about $38.96 per 12 ounce glass now. I enjoy it with my $64.67/lb deer sausage. But boy is it worth it. We make great beer.
I figure I am down to about $38.96 per 12 ounce glass now. I enjoy it with my $64.67/lb deer sausage. But boy is it worth it. We make great beer.
This is a really cheap hobby though. Think about golf. Time isn't money. Do you calculate how much golf costs per hour on the course?
Don't sweat it if you're a bit "behind".
sorry if this is off-topicJiBiru8 said:I have more than broken even here in Japan where prices for a good craft beer at a store (or on the Internet) runs from $4 (Japanese craft beers) to $7+ (imported craft beers).
Time is money when you are counting...The problem I had was that previous posters were only counting equipment and material costs. If you are going to count, you have to count everything, including the biggest cost: labor.
Or, you do what most of us do: call it hobby and don't worry about it, admit you are losing money and not worry about it. Saying it is/isn't cheaper than another hobby isn't valid because its all a wash anyway because its a hobby.
For those who are counting: There is NO WAY you can EVER come out ahead when you factor in labor.
e.g. take someone who has a annual salary of 50K....that is $24/hour. If it takes 6 hours for an average AG batch that is a labor cost of $144/5 gallons. Each beer costs you $3 in labor. That is BEFORE adding in material costs. Think what you can buy a sixer of the best craft beer for.
You may value your time more/or less, but the point is the same...there is a big cost in your time, and where you decide to apply it. There are plenty of people who give this hobby up because its too much work for output. There is a reason behind that.
fbaillargeon said:Na, I'm from Quebec but visited Japan twice already. I loved the Akita region for it's strong sake's and heartwarming fellows I have met.
Unless you miss work or decide not to take up a second job because of your hobbies, you are not losing any revenue by partaking in an activity because in absolute terms, your time is worth nothing in dollars and there's thus no need to factor it in the calculations. Do you also count your "losses" from sleeping, eating and interacting with family ? Sure you could do other things (golfing, reading, etc.), but these other activities do not actually give you a salary either. Sure you have to choose how to best allocate your time, but when you choose to spend your free time doing A instead of B, there's still no monetary value to your time expenditure.
"Sorry honey, I have talked to you for all of 2 hours today, and since my hourly is 30$, it's starting to get expensive. See ya tomorrow at breakfast, or else I'll blow my budget!"
Time is a finite quantity. It's because people have better things to do or just don't have time for the hobby that they quit, not because they reason that at the hourly they earn, homebrewing is just too costly. Hobbies are hobbies, your time doesn't cost you antyhing per se, but it's true that you have less time for other (non money earning) activities.
I have recently planted a garden in my backyard. I have tallied all my costs, but I don't tally my labour. Why ? Because I wouldn't be working if I weren't growing delicious vegetables, I'd be watching TV, reading a book or doing other non value productive activities (ie. I get stuff to eat for cheap when I garden).
You have totally missed the point.
I'm in Hyogo prefecture, not too far from Kobe but in the sticks. You in Jpn too?
You want to value labor @ your 'career' rate.
He's saying he values his time as $0/hr since if he wasn't brewing, he'd be sitting on ass.
I have to agree with him. I bill anywhere from $50-$100/hr for work. I work 8 hours on a good day and have no interest in working any longer than that so after 5pm, my rate is really $0 since I like to sit on ass too.
You choose to value your time not spent working at $0. That doesn't means it still doesn't have value. Time has inherent value because its finite (as pointed out previously). You ignore time's inherent value under certain circumstances....and that's OK, I do the same thing.
My original point was to those who said they were actually coming out ahead by brewing their own, but were not taking into account their labor. My point was if you are going to count, than count right. Otherwise, do what the rest of us do and blindly ignore the fact there no way you are saving yourself money doing this, other than severely undervaluing your time in which to do it.
That's all I'm saying.
You choose to value your time not spent working at $0. That doesn't means it still doesn't have value. Time has inherent value because its finite (as pointed out previously). You ignore time's inherent value under certain circumstances....and that's OK, I do the same thing.
My original point was to those who said they were actually coming out ahead by brewing their own, but were not taking into account their labor. My point was if you are going to count, than count right. Otherwise, do what the rest of us do and blindly ignore the fact there no way you are saving yourself money doing this, other than severely undervaluing your time in which to do it.
That's all I'm saying.
koopa said:If I estimate the value of my homebrew at a meager retail value of $50 per 24x12oz bottles (it's worth every penny), it will take me about 20 months to pay off my entire investment (all equipment and ingredients) as I'm only 16 months in and I'm 87.5% of the way paid off. Of course this doesn't include any cost estimate for labor...I donate my time and energy to this hobby out of love and passion.
That comes out to 12.50 per six pack, that doesn't seem meager to me, that would be some pricey beer.
If you're satisfied with what you have you need to find a new hobby!
I take issue with the "count right". If I weren't brewing, I might be playing golf for entertainment. In that case, you would count brewing as a savings since it is much cheaper than golf on a per session cost unless you own your own golf course. Instead of paying $40 greens fees, I'm saving that $40 and entertaining myself.
By the same token, everytime I cook, instead of going to the restaurant or buying ready made at the grocery store, it's costing me more money because of the "value" I give to my time. As a (in the very near future) civil law notary, the hourly is around 40$ an hour.
A tub of spaghetti sauce for 4 at the grocery store is around 10$. My recipe, when done in huge batches that take 8 hours to prepapre, makes around 10 meals for 4 and costs around 50$ to make in ingredients. If I use your "count right" method, the grocery store stuff is 100$ and mine is almost 400$ for the same volume.
See why it doesn't make any sense ? I get the feeling you want to rationalize your spending by labelling it as a hobby (ie. a money pit). It's fine, nothing wrong with that. But some of us (me included) are in this to save money, or at least break even. And at 1$/beer for swill, it's not as impossible as you want to make it.
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