Did I ruin my beer with peroxide?

[bblouie]

Hello everyone,
So I just bottled my first batch of beer, a porter that was tasting pretty good before bottling. Out of cheapness/laziness I decided to use some Ecover "bleach" (which is 7.5% hydrogen peroxide) for sanitizing the bottles. I used a pretty hefty amount (2 cups for about 4 gallons of water). Everything I had read about hydrogen peroxide led me to believe that it would break down into water and oxygen and therefore be safe as a no-rinse sanitizer. After letting the bottles sit and drain for a few hours, I filled one of with a cup or so of water to test and then swished it in my mouth just to make sure it had broken down, and still got that foamy peroxide taste. I then boiled some more hot water and poured a little into each bottle, swished and then dumped them out again. I didn't wait for the bottles to completely dry out before filling them with beer. My question is..is this going to be unsafe for ingestion ? How long does it really take for it to "break down" into oxygen and water? I used a pretty large amount of bleach..I guess since it was "Ecover" gentle hippy peroxide I assumed it would be pretty weak stuff, closer to food grade..only after reading the FAQ's on their website did I find that it was 7.5%.

Thanks for your help!! I hope I have not offended the beer gods with my boneheadedness:cross:
-B

 

[Brewdouche-RuBrew]

Look up the "MSDS" sheet for this product. The company must provide it. Read it and decide for yourself. I hate to waste beer, but I also hate telling other people to poison themselves unintentionally.

 

[pikledbill]

Look up the "MSDS" sheet for this product. The company must provide it. Read it and decide for yourself. I hate to waste beer, but I also hate telling other people to poison themselves unintentionally.

Too funny

Louie, see: www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

From MSDS:
Routes of Entry: Eye contact. Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals: Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 2200 mg/kg [Mouse].
Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant). Hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of
skin contact (sensitizer).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans: Material is irritating to mucous membranes and upper respiratory
tract.

Solubility:
Soluble in hot water. Partially soluble in cold water. Very slightly soluble in methanol. Insoluble in diethyl ether, n-octanol.

looks pretty safe at levels of residual...but I'm with brewfeminineproduct, I've never tried this, and don't know the results from experience. You know, Robert Koch (the father of microbiology) ingested vibrio cholera bacteria to try and prove that it was the source of cholera (the disease)...Barry Marshall drank H. pylori to prove it caused ulcers. You can always report your findings to us so we know whether or not to try this at home.

Perhaps you may want to try chlorine bleach next time...it really is pretty inexpensive, and can be found at the grocery store (you have to visit the grocery store sometime (assumption on my part), just pick some up while you are there - very little additional effort required.

The beer gods are not likely to strike you down unless you dump good beer...then they can be relentless...fire and brimstone and all that jazz.

Cheers,
PikledBill

 

[Pappers_]

I'm unclear how well you rinsed the bottles - if I had used this, I think I would have rinsed very well. If you think you rinsed well, go for it. If you don't think you did, I wouldn't give them to others.

 

[TheDom]

Bill, your link is an MSDS for sodium percarbonate, not what louie is using, which can be found here.
EDIT: I assumed he was using the liquid that is only H2O2. If he was using the powdered Ecover, you were right, my bad.

Louie, the short answer is: your beer is perfectly drinkable, don't worry about it. Worst case scenario, you have off-flavors due to oxidation, and a very very slightly increased chance of higher carbonation. Next time, get some star san or iodophor.

The long answer: the amount that would be left on your bottles following your initial drain and subsequent rinse would not be anything to worry about from a health perspective. I can't remember off the top of my head how to calculate it, but the amount of liquid that would be left on the walls of the bottle is at most a few mL. Even if you just filled with beer without rinsing or letting it dry, you would still be diluting it to a safe concentration for consumption. Lets say there was 3.5mL of your 7%H2O2 solution left in there, which seems to me to be a very conservative estimate. There are a little over 350mL in a 12 oz bottle, so you'd be doing a 100-fold dilution of your 7% solution, yielding a 0.07% solution. Kids drink 3% H2O2 all the time and are just fine the vast majority of the time. Here's another article on the mechanisms of H2O2 poisoning, though it mostly refers to more concentrated preparations.

EDIT: I missed that you diluted 2C to 4gal. That'd give you a .002% concentration assuming the same 100:1 dilution described.

Regardless, yeast produce catalase enzyme, which catalyzes the 2 H2O2 --> 2 H2O + O2 reaction. We also produce this enzyme, which is why peroxide foams when poured on a cut or swished as an oral rinse. Basically, any remaining H2O2 in your bottles will decompose very quickly, which makes the above paragraph mostly pointless.

EDIT: If you used powdered ecover, you'll also have some carbonate left over, which is only really a health problem because it is caustic in high concentrations. We're not talking high concentrations here.

The O2 part of the equation is what could give you trouble. It may contribute to oxidation of your beer, and possibly increase the amount of CO2 your yeast will produce. Oxidation off flavors would be my biggest concern in this case. In the presence of oxygen, yeast produce 6x the CO2 they would normally, which could result in higher carbonation levels than you intended. At the concentrations we're talking about, I really doubt it will be much of a problem. For next time, just buy some StarSan or iodophor, or learn about the proper ways to use bleach to make a no-rinse sanitizer.

 

[ultravista]

I don't get it.

You spend a good amount of money on the kit, invest the time in brewing and fermenting, then 'cheap out' on sanitation to save money, and opt for peroxide instead of a real tried-and-true sanitizer out of laziness?

Star San is $8 for 8 ounces; $1 an ounce, or $.25 per 0.25 ounce. Mixed properly at 0.25ounce per gallon, an effective and efficient sanitizer will cost you 1/4 of a dollar per batch.

There is a high probability that this batch will have a funky hipppy peroxide taste ...

 

[TheDom]

I don't get it.

You spend a good amount of money on the kit, invest the time in brewing and fermenting, then 'cheap out' on sanitation to save money, and opt for peroxide instead of a real tried-and-true sanitizer out of laziness?

Star San is $8 for 8 ounces; $1 an ounce, or $.25 per 0.25 ounce. Mixed properly at 0.25ounce per gallon, an effective and efficient sanitizer will cost you 1/4 of a dollar per batch.

There is a high probability that this batch will have a funky hipppy peroxide taste ...

You forgot to kick his dog.

 

[Shinglejohn]

Louie,

Please refer to any number of preexisting "did i ruin my beer" posts.
Let me sumit up for ya, Probobly not. Youll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, relax, dont worry, have a homebrew!

p.s. - Dont get lazy on sanitization.

 

[Beer_Guy]

Whenever I have swollen glands in my neck, I have used drug store peroxide diluted about 1oz in half a small glass of warm water to rinse and gargle. (Per doctors instruction, BTW.)

I KNOW I swallowed much much more left over peroxide in my mouth than you got in your beer.

Relax and hope there is no oxidation. It won’t hurt you, but it could mess up your beer.

Hmmm… what about using a little to add oxygen to the wort pre pitching? Maybe add it at flame out. Get some from a farm store that is safe for consumption. Oh, never mind.

 

[hudsonj6]

i don't get it.

You spend a good amount of money on the kit, invest the time in brewing and fermenting, then 'cheap out' on sanitation to save money, and opt for peroxide instead of a real tried-and-true sanitizer out of laziness?

Star san is $8 for 8 ounces; $1 an ounce, or $.25 per 0.25 ounce. Mixed properly at 0.25ounce per gallon, an effective and efficient sanitizer will cost you 1/4 of a dollar per batch.

There is a high probability that this batch will have a funky hipppy peroxide taste ...

you forgot to kick his dog.

AHAHA!!

 

[bblouie]

Thanks for the help everyone (and abuse!! ). I will not be a cheapskate next time. I guess I had already made so many damn trips wrangling beer bottles, cleaning & buying little odds and ends that I was just ready to bottle the stuff with what I had on hand and get it over with. Next time I will be more streamlined (and less tipsy) when bottling. We'll see in two weeks what happens. Cheers!

 

[cheezydemon3]

.....................OK, did not look at the chemical makeup of that stuff as opposed to "regular bleach" but the BIGGEST risk in my estimation, is the likelyhood of a horrible BAND AID flavor.

I rinsed the bless out of a fermenter after using regular bleach,(which I admit was stupid) and still got bandaid ale.

"A little hot water"? are you kidding?

 

[Brewdouche-RuBrew]

So what did you do?

How did it turn out?

 

[cheezydemon3]

You are thorough brewdouche, but a little late.

STOP showing up in "my replies"

 

[jonmohno]

I would be worried about bleach more than peroxide.In fact use non clorine bleach it dosent have cholorine. People that think clorine in tap water is safe need to keep thinking. Its in tap water along with flouride i would be more worried about your tap water than your beer. I dont see anything wrong with using an alternative cleaner like hydrogen peroxide.In fact there is a food grade hydrogen peroxide sold in health stores. meant to be ingested.Not for cleaning though.

 

[FireDancer]

An added benifit to Starsan or Iodophor is you don't need to rinse it out. Makes things simpler. Just follow the proprtions on the label and go.

 

[2wide]

Make your life easier and buy a small bottle of StarSan concentrate. If mixed with distilled or RO water and if you test the solution periodically with ph strips--which are uber cheap--it can be reused practically forever. Off flavors are almost never an issue with StarSan.

 

[Brewdouche-RuBrew]

You are thorough brewdouche, but a little late.

STOP showing up in "my replies"

YOU werent even on my mind.
I just wanted to know what the kid did?