Actually, its much more simple (unless you let those nasty morals get in the way...)
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MX1
Texas Ale Works
@Airborneguy...Ex Military?
Tim
Tim
BrewFrisco
Well-Known Member
In all actuality - I did not even think or even consider that what I did was wrong or immoral...so in terms of sleeping at night...well, I have lost zero sleep. I still do not consider it wrong.
I called a few local bottle shops and asked them about the keg deposit. All three places that I called were like...huh.? If you don't return the keg, we keep the deposit - it is that simple - you are out your $12 bucks. Actually...one just laughed and was like...OK...that is a weird question.
So I have to ask myself who did I screw? Sam?? How so? If the bottle shop does not keep tabs on who brings back what how is that Sam's fault that someone wants a keg of his fine beer and takes over a year to finish it? Why would Sam be penalized.. furthermore, how would they know to penalize him?
If anyone, I would think it is the distributor to keep tabs on (i delivered company X - X number of kegs) next month when I return, I will collect X number of kegs to return to the brewers...
Trust me - the breweries are not the ones setting the deposit cost for the individual stores... If anyone looses out - it is the individual bottle shop. If they don't want to collect a simple phone number to inquire about the shell after a per-determined period of time, then shame on them. If they don't want to ask for more deposit cash in fear of sales loss - then shame on them. Am I taking advantage of the system - that is where the debate needs to be. It is clear to me that I have not broken any laws.
I called a few local bottle shops and asked them about the keg deposit. All three places that I called were like...huh.? If you don't return the keg, we keep the deposit - it is that simple - you are out your $12 bucks. Actually...one just laughed and was like...OK...that is a weird question.
So I have to ask myself who did I screw? Sam?? How so? If the bottle shop does not keep tabs on who brings back what how is that Sam's fault that someone wants a keg of his fine beer and takes over a year to finish it? Why would Sam be penalized.. furthermore, how would they know to penalize him?
If anyone, I would think it is the distributor to keep tabs on (i delivered company X - X number of kegs) next month when I return, I will collect X number of kegs to return to the brewers...
Trust me - the breweries are not the ones setting the deposit cost for the individual stores... If anyone looses out - it is the individual bottle shop. If they don't want to collect a simple phone number to inquire about the shell after a per-determined period of time, then shame on them. If they don't want to ask for more deposit cash in fear of sales loss - then shame on them. Am I taking advantage of the system - that is where the debate needs to be. It is clear to me that I have not broken any laws.
MX1
Texas Ale Works
1st, I don't care how you got your keg, it is just that simple....honestly, I dont, not an issue of any kind (moral or legal) for me.
but, as far as I know, someone bought that keg new, probably the brewer. Someone has to buy a keg to replace that one you got, probably the brewer...now somewhere mixed in is the shop that the beer was purchased from and the person that purchased the beer..I an not sure, but i would guess, that between the shop and the customer there have been deposits made on said keg, now if they are not enough to cover the cost of a new keg, someone has to come up with the difference, probably the brewer....
It is a shame that it is not as simple as the lesson my Dad tought me about lending stuff that is not yours to lend.
"Son, I need my grinder back"
"Well, Dad I loaned it to Mr X, and he lost it somehow"
"Well, then I guess we are off for you to buy me a new one"
"but, Dad, I didnt lose it, Mr X did"
Well, I dont know who the F@$K Mr X is, but I know who is replacing my grinder, grab your wallet, your gonna need it"
I will give you 3 guesses who paid me back for that Grinder in the end....
Tim
but, as far as I know, someone bought that keg new, probably the brewer. Someone has to buy a keg to replace that one you got, probably the brewer...now somewhere mixed in is the shop that the beer was purchased from and the person that purchased the beer..I an not sure, but i would guess, that between the shop and the customer there have been deposits made on said keg, now if they are not enough to cover the cost of a new keg, someone has to come up with the difference, probably the brewer....
It is a shame that it is not as simple as the lesson my Dad tought me about lending stuff that is not yours to lend.
"Son, I need my grinder back"
"Well, Dad I loaned it to Mr X, and he lost it somehow"
"Well, then I guess we are off for you to buy me a new one"
"but, Dad, I didnt lose it, Mr X did"
Well, I dont know who the F@$K Mr X is, but I know who is replacing my grinder, grab your wallet, your gonna need it"
I will give you 3 guesses who paid me back for that Grinder in the end....
Tim
BrewFrisco
Well-Known Member
MX1 - I did pay for keg (grinder) - I paid the asked deposit and lost the keg...?
Where are you going with this?
Where are you going with this?
MX1
Texas Ale Works
That story was more to point out the shortfall of the situation at the Brewer / distributor level, not pointed at you.
In short, if Brewers made distributors more accountable, then distributors would make customers more accountable, and Brewers would not have to incur the bulk of the cost to replace the keg.
in my story My Dad was the Brewer, I was the distributor, and Mr X was the customer...I was made accountable, so in the end, so was Mr X.
But like I said, I have no issue what so ever, have Keg will travel, rock on Playa!!
Tim
In short, if Brewers made distributors more accountable, then distributors would make customers more accountable, and Brewers would not have to incur the bulk of the cost to replace the keg.
in my story My Dad was the Brewer, I was the distributor, and Mr X was the customer...I was made accountable, so in the end, so was Mr X.
But like I said, I have no issue what so ever, have Keg will travel, rock on Playa!!
Tim
BrewFrisco
Well-Known Member
I doubt this seriously.
Said brewpub?
I bet you don't respond to this with any legitimate info.
jkreuze
Well-Known Member
Technically, it's "conversion" not theft.
I guess SumnerH doesn't want to respond...
MX1
Texas Ale Works
Figured as much..lol
Army, Active, MP(PSD),SFC.
Other than the Screen Name, it was the need to close loop that tipped me off.
Tim
GeauxBrew
Well-Known Member
Technically it isn't even a crime until some files a complaint. The police aren't going to come looking for "stollen keggles" unless someone files a police report. BUT we all pay a higher price for beer to offset the overhead of all the lost kegs, which means we need to keep brewing our own beer to avoid those higher costs... It's a vicious cycle.
davesrose
Well-Known Member
Well it seems to me that breweries aren't taking this seriously. Sam himself is not staying up late at night worrying about those 5% of missing kegs. DFH is a corporation: it is up to the brewery and the destributer/retailer to set a proper deposit rental as well as cost for beer. DFH is seeing profits, so they obviously are factoring all of this in their accounting. If breweries were really concerned about keg theft for scrap metal, they would at least raise deposit prices. I don't know of too many people intentionally stealing a keg for scrap metal, but I do know of people selling a keg on CL because their deposit expired. Furthermore, when I inquired about buying unusable kegs from my local brewery, the rep was kind enough to ask around, but then said "it's company policy not to release any kegs [no matter what condition] to the public". When I asked my local breverage store about maybe buying any kegs that weren't fit for distribution anymore: they gave me an odd look...then said "why don't you just buy a keg of beer and then lose the deposit". At that store, DFH 90 costs $225 plus $50 deposit (I personally wouldn't buy that, because I wouldn't be able to stand drinking that much DFH!). The cheapest keg I could buy is Miller High Life for $59. Seeing as I would just be buying that for the keg and dumping the beer, I would have spent at least $110 for a used keg. In that case, it would make more sense to just buy a new keg for $130. Procuring a keg from one of your deposits (or someone else's) is still an insignificant loss to the distributer/brewer, as kegs do go through so many cycles of use for them. They are still in business because they are savvy enough to know what to set deposit prices for. If they saw whatever percentage of homebrewers wanting to "score" a keg to convert as a threat/market segment: then they would allow kegs to be returned at any time, as well as a willingness to sell unusable ones to the public.
MX1
Texas Ale Works
Yep, NATO for the Win!!!!
juslod
Well-Known Member
The first system at the brewpub in Rehoboth was a SABCO system, but the system used as a homebrewer was not a SABCO, they have his first keg at the brewery and it is beat up. Either he got it legally as non-functioning kegs or he took the same route as some people here.
juslod
Well-Known Member
These days it is not uncommon for everyone to have a credit card, for a simple fix they should record your information when you purchase the keg and if you do not return the keg within X days your credit card gets charged with a $150 deposit. That way you are not paying an up-front fee.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
+1 to this! This would be so simple that if breweries/distributors cared even a little about the 5% "lost" kegs, they would implement this easily.
That wouldn't work so well. What about people whose cards are soon to expire? Who decide to cancel their card in the meantime, or even maxed it out? Just the first one alone is quite a significant amount of people.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
they can put a hold on the card - when your card expires you get a new card, its not a new account. you're not going to be able to cancel your account with a hold on it.
people dont go renting cars, cancel their credit card, and never return the car do they? and if somebody goes to all that effort to steal a keg, its hardly worth fighting.
I think the one non-returned keg here and there is not the issue. But bars and distributors not keeping track of them
Huge stretch... come on now! Wouldn't that "reasoning" apply to any credit card transaction that involves a hold?
Are you a boxer? Because you have some reach!
That would be denied on the spot.
I mean max it out in the interim. And sure, you could apply that to any transaction that involves a hold... but 150 days (5 months) is an exceptionally long hold and the opportunity for stuff like this to happen is much higher than during a typical CC hold, that's all I was getting at.
android
Well-Known Member
RDWHAHB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fo realz.
My guess is that 99.9% of the kegs we brew in were stolen at one point in time. You are all either hypocrites or jealous you don't have keggles of your own.
BrewFrisco
Well-Known Member
Brew Bling!
remilard
Well-Known Member
TL;DR and all that but keg deposits are limited by statute in most jurisdictions so, no, the brewer has no say.
remilard
Well-Known Member
I'm of the third type, I have three keggles made from new kegs.
Those of you who think taking kegs is not a big deal, call up your local package brewery and talk to them about it. I suspect your bravado will melt long before you pick up the phone to dial.
