Degassing

[amazinglarry]

For how many days do you degas a mead for?

 

[Huskysibe]

I am curious as well.

 

[Atek]

I usually do it the first 7 days staggering nutrients as well.

 

[fatbloke]

Not a case of how many days........

It depends on how you want to de-gas.

You can stopper a carboy and roll it for a couple of minutes, then open it to release the pressure, or you can shake a stoppered carboy and the release the pressure, but that depends on the size as it's bloody hard work with a 5 gallon one.

You can use a folding stirrer and spin it with a drill, keeping the "blades" down low.
Personally I use a vacuum pump. Running it until no more bubbles come out.

 

[huesmann]

Or you could just use a household vacuum with a hose. Get a short tube from the hardware store (I bought a plastic tube in the plumbing dept, something for faucet extensions or something). You might want to wrap it with tape to tighten up the clearances, but you can stick one end in your carboy rubber stopper, and get another rubber stopper that you can stick in the end of your vacuum hose.

 

[fatbloke]

I usually do it the first 7 days staggering nutrients as well.

This reply has caused me to think what the OP was actually asking.

If the question was about "stirring" to add some air/O2 into a ferment, then it's generally termed as "aeration".

Whereas, the term "de-gassing" would normally be applied to removing CO2 from a finished ferment.

Obviously the term "de-gassing" isn't exclusive to the later, but it does more accurately explain what's going on in the process i.e. the former is to get more air/O2 into the brew to aid yeast development - some people will just aerate to the 1/3rd sugar break so it ties in nicely with a 2 stage SNA technique, others will aerate to 1/2 sugar break, and some will even aerate until they want to move the brew into secondary - I usually go with the first method i.e. the 1/3rd sugar break one.

Not trying to "nit pick", just to clear up what might cause confusion.....

 

[GinKings]

This reply has caused me to think what the OP was actually asking.

If the question was about "stirring" to add some air/O2 into a ferment, then it's generally termed as "aeration".

Whereas, the term "de-gassing" would normally be applied to removing CO2 from a finished ferment.

Obviously the term "de-gassing" isn't exclusive to the later, but it does more accurately explain what's going on in the process i.e. the former is to get more air/O2 into the brew to aid yeast development - some people will just aerate to the 1/3rd sugar break so it ties in nicely with a 2 stage SNA technique, others will aerate to 1/2 sugar break, and some will even aerate until they want to move the brew into secondary - I usually go with the first method i.e. the 1/3rd sugar break one.

Not trying to "nit pick", just to clear up what might cause confusion.....

I don't want to "nit pick" either, but I gotta disagree. "Stirring" after fermentation has begun is as much about degassing as it is about aeration. Maybe more.

 

[huesmann]

I don't know about all that. You can still have a successful ferment if you do neither (as long as you aerate before pitching).

As far as degassing (if one bothers), when is it best to do so? Primary? Secondary?

 

[GinKings]

I don't know about all that. You can still have a successful ferment if you do neither (as long as you aerate before pitching).

As far as degassing (if one bothers), when is it best to do so? Primary? Secondary?

You're right. Degassing is optional.

I hear a lot of people talk about degassing meads for the first third of fermentation. I usually degas mine for the first 4-5 days of fermentation. This is done to keep the yeast happy.

I believe some people degas after fermentation is complete to remove CO2 from solution. I age my meads for a long time and the CO2 comes out on it's own, so I've never felt the need to do this.

One word of warning, degassing an active fermentation can cause excessive foaming. Do it gently and a bit at a time. Shake a carboy vigorously or run a wine whip on high speed and you may find yourself cleaning honey off the kitchen ceiling.

 

[Atek]

Fatbloke is right. When the stirring is done during the first few days of fermenting it is actually done more to introduce oxygen into the must and encourage yeast reproduction. The act of degassing for the sake of removing dissolved co2 I believe is done after fermentation is complete and is rarely done by stirring. Most of the time simply appropriate rackings will facilitate adequate degassing. Most people here I've noticed refer to daily aeration as degassing so I assumed that's what the OP meant. Aeration during fermentation is definitely not absolutely required to make a good Mead but it has been proven to, in conjunction with SNA, significantly decrease the primary fermentation time. It had also seemed to make my Meads more consistently tasty.

 

[huesmann]

When I made my first mead using Ken Schramm's basic recipe it turned out fine without aerating (or degassing) after airlocking it.

 

[Yooper]

When I made my first mead using Ken Schramm's basic recipe it turned out fine without aerating (or degassing) after airlocking it.

Mine always have too.

The degassing talk is really pretty new. I heard of it in 2010 for the first time, at the NHC. Most of the award winning mazers on the panel discussed degassing the mead for the first few days of fermentation. Not stirring, but instead actually working to remove the created c02. I think we have a link up in the stickies called something like "what I learned at NHC" that may address this. If not, I'll see if I can dig up my notes.

 

[cgenebrewer]

From tidbits here and there that I have read on wine and mead brewing, I felt that the general consensus these days is to aerate a lot before pitching and then "degass" by stirring somehow once a day during the first 5 days.

I currently have a pumpkin cyser and a welch's grape wine in primary buckets covered with cloths. I stir both daily and I can tell you that just by sloshing around you get a lot of gas coming out of the must. The wine has considerably more than the cyser.

I am convinced that this is co2 leaving the must. Which is good, because yeast are happier in a must without a lot of co2 around them. I believe that a high build-up of CO2 will slow down the yeast

As far as stirring to introduce o2, I am not entirely convinced. if stirring removes one gas, why would it introduce another? It seems that shaking does aerate, but I am not sure if stirring or sloshing does as much as it "degasses."

tl;dr If stirring degasses, how can it also aerate?

Edit: perhaps when you stir, you are just introducing the must to the air, and since it is under one atmosphere of pressure, it forces in some air, and with it the o2 that makes up the air. So I guess it would aerate in the sense that it returning the must to the 'normal" levels of o2, nitro, etc etc and since co2 is not normally present in the must at this low pressure, it escapes? right?

 

[huesmann]

Well, aeration occurrs wherever there is an air/liquid interface. If there is no agitation, the transfer is minimal. What agitation does is increase the surface area (and rate) of the liquid that is exposed to air, which increases transfer. Since stirring is some agitation, there is some additional aeration. Not quite as much as shaking, but still some. If you stir a still liquid vigorously enough to produce bubbles, you are aerating.

 

[Yooper]

This is from the post in the sticky about the expert panel at last year's NHC (written by KCWorthog):



If there was ONE thing that I had to list as my #1 takeaway from this session, it's DEGAS. Piatz gave everyone a handout, which should be available when all presentations are posted (here). CO2 is toxic to yeast, so it makes sense that removing as much CO2 as possible assists fermentation. I was degassing by stirring, but it's clear now that it's not nearly enough - it needs to last until CO2 bubbles no longer rise to the surface. Piatz stated that he ferments a 5-gallon batch of mead in a food-safe garbage can - and when he degasses (with a drill-operated lees stirrer), foam rises nearly to the top of the container. That is a LOT of foam!

When asked about nutrient additions, it seemed that everyone on the panel did something slightly different. All of them did nutrient additions - some with KOH, some without. Piatz claimed that he never tests his pH (not sure I believe that, but that's what he said). Fletty said he doesn't do staggered nutrients; he just adds them all at once. But the one thing they ALL did was degas.

It's clear to me now that degassing is just as important as nutrient additions, but it doesn't get nearly as much attention. And not just stirring, but vigorous degassing with a lees stirrer to remove as much CO2 as possible. The panel recommended degassing several times a day, if possible.

________________________________________________________________

Aerating may occur, but if you've ever degassed like this, it's co2 coming OUT (like a volcano, actually) so very little air transfer will take place (ie very little 02 going IN).

 

[amazinglarry]

OK, so there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus here. Since this is my first batch of mead of was unaware that this is a relatively new technique. I will say this, I degassed once a day for the first seven days with a stirrer attached to my drill. For the first five days this produced a massive level of foam (the first of which ended up all over my carpet since I wasn't prepared for it). The reason I stopped after seven days is that the level of foam produced from degassing was significantly less at this point. Since this meant less Co2 then I reasoned degassing was less necessary. Although I should also add that I finished staggering my nutrients after the fourth day since I've read that this can cause excessive foaming as well.

lastly, I racked to a carboy yesterday and sampled a bit. I was pretty shocked at how good it tasted since its only three weeks old. Which leads to question #2, I was under the impression that you should age meads for at least a year. Is this true for all meads of just some? If I taste my mead and it tastes good, how much will it improve from aging other than subsiding some of the fusel alcohol notes?

 

[Hazroth]

Very good info, ill add these steps into my recipes.

 

[GinKings]

It depends on how you want to de-gas.

You can stopper a carboy and roll it for a couple of minutes, then open it to release the pressure, or you can shake a stoppered carboy and the release the pressure, but that depends on the size as it's bloody hard work with a 5 gallon one.

I realize this is an older post, but this sounds extremely dangerous to me. A solid stopper should NEVER be used in a carboy during fermentation. Rolling it or shaking to release CO2 in a stoppered carboy could very easily cause it to explode. I know someone that put a solid stopper in a carboy when he pitched the yeast thinking fermentation wouldn't start for a while. Luckily, he was not in the room when it blew. There were shards of glass embedded in the dining room walls. It could have killed somebody!

 

[huesmann]

Sounds like he put the stopper in too firmly...