Dead guy and Hobgoblin

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Substitute for Cara-pils/dextrine in HOBGOBLIN

  • Smaller amount of munich to not impart to much flavour

  • Munich + Wheat malt

  • Use more caramel

  • Forget about it altogether

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S

Sum1Stu

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Im intrested in making 2 small batches of these types of ales, one problem is my yeast situation, im not gonna be able to get a choice in the yeast I use.

Another one is my limited knowledge in the names of grains, this store I go to only sells a few specialty malts but they do not have Crystal or Caramel or carapils. I remember them having carastan, munich, and chocolate, but im certain they have at least 5 specialty malts and around 6 base malts.

When a recipe calls for 2-row, or Marris Otter what am I looking for exactly ? Is it a better idea to just partial mash and use LME & DME equally to make up for base ?
 
Even if you partial mash, you'll still need a little bit of 2-row in order for your specialty grains to fully convert.

As for what 2-row is... I can assure you and brew shop will carry it. It's the main base malt used in all beers. It might be labeled as pale malt. I'm suprised you can't get crystal or caramel with them being in so many recipes.
 
Carastan is another name for crystal malt. It's usually around 60L (in my experience with my local place anyway). If something calls for Maris Otter and you can't get it, just go with regular pale malt, or standard 2-row if that's what you can get. It will be different but without ordering online that's about the best you'll be able to do.

I can't speak to Dead Guy, but Hobgoblin is excellent with Nottingham, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get that.
 
Im trying to get a bottle of dead guy ale and try to revive that yeast, but I cant figure out where to get it, im in the GTA. Thebeerstores dont carry it on their websites. Anyone know where I can get fresh beer shipped ??
 
Sum1Stu said:
Im trying to get a bottle of dead guy ale and try to revive that yeast, but I cant figure out where to get it, im in the GTA. Thebeerstores dont carry it on their websites. Anyone know where I can get fresh beer shipped ??
Click to expand...

I know people have cultured yeast from Dead Guy and yada yada but Dead Guy (and most Rogue beers) is filtered. You would be much better off going with Shakespeare Stout or Brutal Bitter, both unfiltered.
 
I didnt mention how I also wanted to taste these beers that all of you guys are brewing!! Thx for the link!

Im going around this website reading everyones brews thinking, this sounds good, but will I actually like it ? Is this my preference ?

Sooo, im sort-of looking for some beer that are most popular on this site, ordering, tasting, and perhaps brewing it.
 
I lucked out and my local LCBO had a 6er of Dead Guy so I grabbed it. I was thrilled because so many people on here said how great it was. My enthusiasm didn't last long though, it must have been old because it tasted of alcohol and nothing else, it was terrible. I'm constantly on the look out for more but haven't seen any since.
 
Wow cant believe lcbo stocks that many beers!

I did see a chocolate rogue stout there once, come to think of it, nevr thought they had a nice website. thx im on my way to grab one and mayb a few other ales while im there.
 
bradsul said:
I lucked out and my local LCBO had a 6er of Dead Guy so I grabbed it. I was thrilled because so many people on here said how great it was. My enthusiasm didn't last long though, it must have been old because it tasted of alcohol and nothing else, it was terrible. I'm constantly on the look out for more but haven't seen any since.
Click to expand...

Dead Guy is what I would call an aquired taste. The first time I tried it was about 5 years ago. I bought it because I like the name. Also, my local liquor store allows you to mix your own six-packs, so I didn't have to buy a whole 6 pack of it.

When I got home, I cracked it open and couldn't even finish it after the first few sips.

Keep in mind...I drank nothing but Naty Ice and Keystone in those days (college). This was also a few years before I started homebrewing, so I hadn't developed the tastes that I have now.

I love Dead Guy now, but it took me awhile.
 
I just picked up hobgoblin and deadguy from the lcbo, wow they had both!! I also got fiddlers elbow!

Gonna have a hobgoblin now, as for the dead guy...Im not much for high alcohol beers, ill save that for another time :)

I just got back from the brew shop, and he sold me some grains.

I bought LME and DME, syrup form. Did not get any base malt, I think these two should provide a good base how about you guys ? ? Should I be using pale malt in my mash ? Im gonna do partial mash since i overbought in malt extracts lol

Specialty grains : Carastan(aka caramel/crystal), munich, and chocolate. Hops:Fuggles,perle,Saaz (Missing styrian goldings)

Yeast: Ale yeast ( only had two types lager and ale )
 
Ok the recipe calls for chocolate, cara-pils/dextrine, and crystal/caramel.

I got carastan, and im not sure what to substitute for the carapils!! Munich ? Or wheat malt? Mix of the two ?

In the extract version recipe it doesnt mention using base malt "mashing" at all, just steeping for 30minutes. Why is it skipping a full 60minute mash for ? Is it because the grains used dont require a mash to convert ? Is partial mash and extract two different styles/recipe guides ?
 
Partial mash is completely different from extract w/grains. If you want to do extract with grains, you don't need to worry about a base malt for conversion. The only things your grains will be used for is flavor and color, instead of gravity points.

With a partial mash, you're pulling gravity points out of your grains. You're also adding extract to partial mash brews to make up for the small mash size. Unless you have a Mash Tun built, you're probably looking at doing extract w/ grains.

If you're trying to clone something, don't replace ingredients. You need to look into buying something online. Post the exact recipe and maybe we can help you out.

Carapils isn't a fermentable grain. It only adds body and foam retention. It may also be labeled as Dextrin Malt. This cannot be replaced by something with fermentable sugars. Technically, you could leave the carapils out of the recipe completely and it wouldn't effect the taste of the beer. It would only effect the mouth feel.

Your carastan needs to stay out of the recipe unless it specifically calls for it.
 
So I guess ill follow the 30 minute "steep" then. Carastan is another name for caramel, A few have told me this.

The hobgoblin was a great beer, reminds me of a richards red, although its been awhile since ive had one.
 
Yes, Carastan is a crystal malt. But, it's not just interchangable with any crystal. What does your recipe call for? 20L? 120L? It makes a huge difference. They're not all the same roast level. If you need a crystal malt of 20L-40L, Carastan could be a substitution, but it'll be a bit different.
 
Well, im not sure if I should just scrap this whole project, because im gonna have to do it again anyway!!

There was no label but carastan on the pail I was weighing my grain in. The recipe calls for : Steeped
0.17 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain
0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain
0.09 kg Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain

Does this mean 30min hold at 150 just like mashing ?
I could always buy a liquid malto-dextrine or powder, im sure they sell it and add it when priming bottles, cant I ?
 
If that's Orfy's recipe, the carastan will be perfect, it's what I use. Most carastan is in the 60L range and it tastes identical to crystal 60L.

Steeping is just like mashing, the temperature is just less important. Hold your steeping grains at ~150-160F for 30 minutes and then rinse them by pouring some hot (~170-180F) water over them.
 
Yes its orfys, so in this total recipe is 124 grams of hops ? ? All at different timings ?

Boil for 60 min Start to Boil
3.48 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract
25 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops
25 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops
30 min into boil Add 25 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00%] (30 min)
30 min into boil Add 25 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (30 min)
50 min into boil Add 1 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)
60 min into boil Add 12 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
60 min into boil Add 12 gm Styrian Goldings [4.50%] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
 
Well I made some major changes, because I didnt buy as many hops and couldnt get the goldings.....at worst ill have a beer that tried to be a hobgoblin but didnt make it ;)

I made it lighter (alcohol), and used cascade hops 60min, 30min perle hops, and fuggles for aroma. I think its last 10 mins of boil for aroma right ?

Cobgoblin ?
 
bradsul said:
If that's Orfy's recipe, the carastan will be perfect, it's what I use. Most carastan is in the 60L range and it tastes identical to crystal 60L.

Steeping is just like mashing, the temperature is just less important. Hold your steeping grains at ~150-160F for 30 minutes and then rinse them by pouring some hot (~170-180F) water over them.
Click to expand...

Where did you find out that carastan is in the 60L range? Every time I've seen carastan, it's been in ranges (not an exact L rating). It's usually been no higher than 25-38L though. I've never seen a 60L. It could still work...but if your doing a clone, differing on grains as much as this tends to lead to different final products.
 
Yeah well from not using malto-dextrin, and styrian goldings, we'll see what i'll end up with.

Im sure itl taste just fine, but definitly not a clone.

I used 75g carastan, 45g chocolate and 1700 grams of llme.

Hops were cascades 60 min 1/2oz, perle 10grams 30mins, fuggles 10grams 10mins.
 
It sounds like a good American Amber ale. Let us know how it turns out. As I said...leaving out the Dextrin won't effect the taste of the final product.
 
Suthrncomfrt1884 said:
Where did you find out that carastan is in the 60L range? Every time I've seen carastan, it's been in ranges (not an exact L rating). It's usually been no higher than 25-38L though. I've never seen a 60L. It could still work...but if your doing a clone, differing on grains as much as this tends to lead to different final products.
Click to expand...
I've purchased carastan from several different suppliers over the years and it's always been indistinguishable from crystal 60L. I'm not surprised it's available in other levels, I've just never seen it.
 
Find a picture of crystal 60L online and just see if they look like approximately the same colour. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. 40L and 60L will both work in hobgoblin.
 
I still cant believe the smell that is coming from my fermentor, its almost like exactly hobgoblin and I used mostly malt extract.... I think the addition of cascades will make the beer even better, although since I boiled them im not getting much flavour the aroma is coming from the fuggles I added at last 10min

Anyways the sg is at 1.008-1.010, not sure its ready for priming,since the krausen has just faded away 12hrs ago.

I'll check again in another 12hrs see if it moves any...... keep in mind guys, there is no carapils-dextrine, or any unfermentable sugars aside from the caramel and chocolate, and im not sure if pale malt extract has unfermentables.
 
SG is now 1.008... it did drop but by very little.

Can anyone confirm that I should prime now ? ?

The thing is im not sure how much NON-fermentables came out of the malt extract and 100grams of caramel/carastan and chocolate.(2.5gal)
 
Why are you concerned about non-fermentable sugars? It's not an issue. Your beer is probably done fermenting, but don't rush it. I'd leave it for at least two weeks before bottling. Patience = better beer.
 
Yep at 1.008 consider it done. Definitely let it rest a week or two before bottling.

The Crystal I use is around 55l.

Don't for get when brewing a recipe like this, It's my recipe. Who's to say yours or anyone else's won't turn out better?
 
Wait, leave the beer for two weeks ? ? If its done fermenting wouldnt there be a huge risk of oxygen ruining the batch >? With wine this is the case, id assume with beer is the same!

Do I have to be so critical in timing, guys ?

Yeah, orfy, I think what I did adds a nice balance of hops, not sure yet though, never drank any, only tasted & spit. Seriously GJ on the clone though :)
 
It'll be good for weeks in there, don't worry about it! I generally leave my batches in primary for at least 2-3 weeks and then into the keg or secondary (depending on the beer).
 
Well perhaps because im bottle conditioning it is critical to get the yeast before it settles out too much and conditioning will take forever!
 
Sum1Stu said:
Well perhaps because im bottle conditioning it is critical to get the yeast before it settles out too much and conditioning will take forever!
Click to expand...

This is why new brewers tend to have sub-par beers. I did it too, so I'm not insulting anyone, but new brewers are extremely impatient. They want to try it as soon as possible, which I understand.

It's actually better for beer to sit on the yeast for 3-4 weeks. It gives the yeast a chance to clean up any off flavors that may have come from fermentation. Also, the yeast won't completely clear for at least a few months. All I'm saying is give your beer some time in primary (3 weeks), then bottle and wait another 3-4 weeks. If you don't rush, you'll realize your beer tastes MUCH better. Most beers don't even hit their peak flavor for 3-4 months, so why hurry and drink young beer?
 
I never knew guys, but isnt it much safer to at least use an airlock if your going to let the beer sit on the yeast after fermentation is complete ? ?

Isnt it the same thing bottling after a week and waiting 3-4months ? The beer is still sitting on the same yeast.
 
Yes, you should still be using an airlock.

You will have a little yeast in the bottles, but not near as much as there is at the bottom of your carboy/bucket.
 

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