DC Area Group Buy #10

[stonebrewer]

NOTE: Frits and I are kicking around some changes, but for now here is the deal:

This group buy is open to HBT members who are local to the DC metro area, including MD and VA as well as the district. A limited number of folks in the Charlottesville/Waynesboro/Staunton area may participate as I drive there 6-8 times a year, but you must be willing to wait for my next trip home...

The intent of this buy is to be held on a regular schedule. We do not have a minimum order to make so we can schedule this to happen on a regular timetable and that allows you to plan your buys to the way you brew instead of having to stock up like the old model forced you to. Looks like we are getting in a groove with the buy happening every 6-7 weeks.

Some "info" and "rules" to go over:

* If you want the price list, PM me your email address...otherwise you don't get it!
* The pickup location is at 3 Stars brewery in DC
* TBD but we are doing this either every month or every other month (based on demand) and based on the weekends that Mike works...
* The pickup will occur the Sat. after the buy closes, so buy closes Friday night, order goes in Sat. AM, pick up the following Sat. AM at 3 Stars.
* Pickup time is 11 AM and ends at 12 or 12:30 AM (TBD), right before they can fill growlers so come prepared to buy from the HBS and get your growler(s) filled!
* If you cannot pick up your grain, you MUST arrange with someone else to do so and let either IslandLizard or I know who is picking up your grain
* All payment is via paypal and must be in by midnight Friday the week BEFORE the pickup
* Splits are a PITA, but as long as someone is willing to manage them we will allow them (IslandLizard is managing them now)
* If you suggest a split, you must pay IslandLizard, like everyone else who wants a share of your sack. IslandLizard controls all payments and keep track of all splits on the same set of sheets we send you a link to; check status there before asking in the forum.
* In the past we have had issues with some sacks not showing up or the wrong sacks showing up; be forewarned that this can happen, though this is a new supplier so hopefully it won't
* The price list is given out by email so if you want it PM me with your email; no email, no list, no exceptions
* The price list is private, do not share with others. Have them contact me. Do not discuss pricing on the forum. Do not give out the link.
* When ordering please use a standard format, for example copy and paste the SKU + grain straight off the price list. Something like this:

2 x BRI1004 Briess Pilsen 50 lb
1 x MUN1001 Muntons Maris Otter 25 kg (55 lb)

10# WEY1031 Weyermann® CaraMunich I® 25 Kg (55 Lb.):


* ...and put it at the bottom of your post, away from text to make it stand out. In this example, the buyer is asking for 3 full sacks and to start a split of CaraMunich, of which he is taking 10 pounds.
* If you are buying splits, please quote the primary buyers post as part of your request post to make it easy for us to see what split you are taking.
* We currently create a very complete set of sheets that we keep on google drive with all the information about a buy. Please check it before asking questions. If it is not up to date, give us some time before posting. We do have real jobs, families, and we also like to brew from time to time...
* The brewery has growler hours at 1PM; they cannot sell you a growler before that by law. Don't ask.
* The brewery has a small homebrew store; PLEASE snag some hops, yeast, etc. to show your appreciation.
* PAYMENT is via PayPal only! Pay the week before the buy by Friday at midnight. Pay me at the email address I used to send you the link to the sheet. Use the pay friend/family option and DO NOT pay via PayPal check! PLEASE put your HBT moniker in the note section so I know who you are. Collating email addresses is a pain!

 

[reddskinnfan]

Scribed! Please move my "not closed" splits over.

 

[sweetcell]

thank you, tony and frits, on making buy #9 happen... on to #10!

frits, as a reminder i proposed the following splits:

i would like to start three splits for the next round:

CRI1036 Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 10 lbs
CRI1002 Crisp Gleneagles Maris Otter 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 25 lbs
SIM1071 Simpsons Golden Naked Oats 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 10 lbs

 

[CaptainAl]

Hello Gents!!! Let the good times roll!!


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[reddskinnfan]

Sweetcell,

There is already a C40 split. You could just jump in on that and bump a couple ounces for color. Taste is pretty much the same.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Finally getting around to some fitment of pots and WELDING this weekend!

 

[IslandLizard]

Scribed! Please move my "not closed" splits over.

Done, I've moved your previous shares for those 2 splits.
All others who were on those 2 buys need to resubmit if still interested. I re-added those 2 items to Splits #9 (red lines) so everyone can check their previous order, including cancelled splits.

thank you, tony and frits, on making buy #9 happen... on to #10!

frits, as a reminder i proposed the following splits:

CRI1036 Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 10 lbs
CRI1002 Crisp Gleneagles Maris Otter 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 25 lbs
SIM1071 Simpsons Golden Naked Oats 25 kg (55 lb) - i will take 10 lbs

Yup, just added those 3. Let the games begin!

 

[sweetcell]

Sweetcell,

There is already a C40 split. You could just jump in on that and bump a couple ounces for color. Taste is pretty much the same.

indeed, but this C40 split (and the one in the buy #9, which i got in on) are for american crystal from Briess.

my proposed split is for english crystal from Crisp... so it's less about the color (40 vs. 60'ish) and more about the roast characteristic. really subtle but i like it.

given how long before buy #10 closes, i'm pretty confident we'll be able to close both bags.

 

[PikevilleBrew]

Need...more...rice...hulls! Just kidding guys! Special thanks to Stonebrewer and Islandlizard for keeping these buys going!

 

[reddskinnfan]

indeed, but this C40 split (and the one in the buy #9, which i got in on) are for american crystal from Briess.

my proposed split is for english crystal from Crisp... so it's less about the color (40 vs. 60'ish) and more about the roast characteristic. really subtle but i like it.

given how long before buy #10 closes, i'm pretty confident we'll be able to close both bags.

Fair enough.

 

[IslandLizard]

After the problem we ran into on Sunday, I want to propose this:

• Splits close a week before the order goes in. All split payments are due then. If we have a non-payer on our hands, we have a week to find substitute takers, rather than a few hours at a very inconvenient and critical time.
  
  
• New splits can still be added during that last week, but every participant in those, prepays their shares with their order before they get added to the list.
  [This is the touchy one] Some buyers are exempt from prepayment given their record and participation level in our group buys.

We could do the same for whole sacks, although a dropped out buyer doesn't impact others like they do on splits.

 

[sweetcell]

• Splits close a week before the order goes in. All split payments are due then. If we have a non-payer on our hands, we have a week to find substitute takers, rather than a few hours at a very inconvenient and critical time.

sounds like a great rule.

• New splits can still be added during that last week, but every participant in those, prepays their shares with their order before they get added to the list.
  [This is the touchy one] Some buyers are exempt from prepayment given their record and participation level in our group buys.

eh, up to you since you'll be managing this, but you could simplify your life by not allowing this. personally, i would close splits a week beforehand, end of story. then you're not bothered with refunding shares if the bag isn't fully claimed, or carrying over payments, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

sounds like a great rule.

eh, up to you since you'll be managing this, but you could simplify your life by not allowing this. personally, i would close splits a week beforehand, end of story. then you're not bothered with refunding shares if the bag isn't fully claimed, or carrying over payments, etc.

You got a good point there. I know many buyers don't get fully spurred on until the last week. So the last week for splits would be 2 weeks before the order date.

I don't want to cut off or punish those who are actively involved and make this so great. Mike's Pearl and Rye splits filled up in a few days. I think the problem lies in dealing with unknown buyers and their possible non-commitment and ignorance when payment is due.

We should be able to allow new splits to be added in the week after the splits close, somehow. There's a lot of momentum that last week, and ideas are sprouting.

 

[masonsjax]

I know my opinion wasn't asked, so here it is anyway I'm in favor of closing splits a week early with no exceptions. We do this often enough so if something's not urgent enough to order before the final week, pushing it to the next buy shouldn't really hurt anyone.

 

[funnycreature]

I am interested in the FastFerment plastic conical fermenter offered by FastRack (https://www.thefastrack.ca/main/fastferment). They have a 4-pack, shipped in the US for $320 which comes to $80 a pop. I'd be willing to take one at that price and distribute the rest at our group buy. Anyone else up for it?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PfA-Yt5hf8[/ame]

 

[joshindc]

Can I get:

5# Briess 2-Row Caramel 40L 50 lb BRI1035
5# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

Thanks!

 

[ovenfreshbread]

I know my opinion wasn't asked, so here it is anyway I'm in favor of closing splits a week early with no exceptions. We do this often enough so if something's not urgent enough to order before the final week, pushing it to the next buy shouldn't really hurt anyone.

I'm OK with closing the splits a week early as well if it makes it easier on the coordination. I say whatever is easiest for IslandLizard is fine with me when it comes to splits, since he's putting in a ton of work on them.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can I get:

5# Briess 2-Row Caramel 40L 50 lb BRI1035
5# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

Thanks!

Added.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I'll take 15# of the Naked Oats.

 

[stonebrewer]

Put me down for CaraAroma split...I'll take 15 pounds. Sucks as I needed this for an AB clone I was planning to do.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I can hook you up with some until next buy. How much you need?

 

[IslandLizard]

I'll take 15# of the Naked Oats.

Added.

Put me down for CaraAroma split...I'll take 15 pounds. Sucks as I needed this for an AB clone I was planning to do.

Started new split for CaraAroma. Brilliant minds think alike.

15# for stonebrewer
10# for IslandLizard. It does suck, as I need it too. At least I can buy it in Severna Park.

 

[stonebrewer]

I can hook you up with some until next buy. How much you need?

4 to 5 pounds...

 

[reddskinnfan]

Well, that I can do! Gives me a reason to swing through sometime. Also can bring a bomber of my version for you to try (not as hoppy due to lack of gypsum, but pretty close in all other regards).

As long as you can repay once the new buy closes, we'll call it square.

Fritz add me for 10# of CaraAroma on new split, to help replenish.

 

[j1n]

I'll get in on the split.

10# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

 

[IslandLizard]

Well, that I can do! Gives me a reason to swing through sometime. Also can bring a bomber of my version for you to try (not as hoppy due to lack of gypsum, but pretty close in all other regards).

As long as you can repay once the new buy closes, we'll call it square.

Fritz add me for 10# of CaraAroma on new split, to help replenish.

Added 10# of CA.

I'll get in on the split.

10# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

Added 10# of Crisp C60.

 

[Bigbeavk]

I'll take the 20lbs left of the CaraAroma plz.

 

[jamisonia]

Add me on:

10# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036


So I got a 55 lb sack of MO on Group Buy #9, I'm wanting to buy another sack of base malt for general use. I tend to brew more British and American beers. I just started doing lagers, and think maybe I'll do more come the winter when I have an outdoor shed area that I think would work in a DC winter with a heating element. So what would be a good malt that would produce good ales and lagers? Thanks.

 

[ovenfreshbread]

Add me on:
So I got a 55 lb sack of MO on Group Buy #9, I'm wanting to buy another sack of base malt for general use. I tend to brew more British and American beers. I just started doing lagers, and think maybe I'll do more come the winter when I have an outdoor shed area that I think would work in a DC winter with a heating element. So what would be a good malt that would produce good ales and lagers? Thanks.

If you're going to work on lagers in the winter, go for a sack of german or belgian pilsner; the only problem is it doesn't get too far with British or American styles. It could be a good excuse to do some belgian ales, though. You could go for a Munich or Vienna if you want something darker.


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[ovenfreshbread]

I'll get on the new caraaroma split:

5# caraaroma

Thanks!


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[IslandLizard]

Add me on:

10# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

[...]

Added 10# Crisp C60.

I'll get on the new caraaroma split:

5# caraaroma

Actually you're starting the second CA split. The first one has filled already.
5# CA for you. 50# to go...

 

[IslandLizard]

I mentioned this in the #9 thread.

Anyone else want to buy a pint of Phosphoric Acid?
I have 3 more pints to sell. To be distributed on Sept. 6 at GB #9.

$6 a pint, with bottle.

 

[joshindc]

I mentioned this in the #9 thread.

Anyone else want to buy a pint of Phosphoric Acid?
I have 3 more pints to sell. To be distributed on Sept. 6 at GB #9.

$6 a pint, with bottle.

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

 

[res291que]

Guessing you need a ph meter if using acid ? What are people using it for to control ph in the mash?


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[stonebrewer]

Guessing you need a ph meter if using acid ? What are people using it for to control ph in the mash?


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Right on both accounts. Proper mash PH helps limit tannin extraction as the mash is going to be naturally alkaline... Here's a quote from BYO:

"The pH of the mash affects the activity of enzymes and is critical for the amylases (a family enzymes) responsible for saccharification (conversion of malt starch into fermentable sugars, particularly maltose) and liquification. Different enzymes required in the mash function at different optimum pH levels, but a happy medium is achieved between pH 5.2 and 5.5. This means healthy yeast, which also perform well at a pH of about 5.5. As the yeast ferment the wort, pH drops and creates a more and more inhospitable environment for bacteria. Achieving the proper mash pH will also significantly affect hop extraction rate in the boil, facilitate proper protein precipitation, clarification of the wort, and color pick-up, and ultimately affect the flavor of the beer. "


Sounds important for making better beer, right?

Take it from me, if you are going to fool with acid, there are a number of precautions:

* get protective eye and hand ware
* add a little, test, add a little, test, repeat until you hit your PH goal...little steps are critical!
* get a quality meter - I use a digital one from HM Digital I got off Amazon - and make sure you calibrate it each time before you brew

You can also use an acidified malt instead of acid directly.

 

[stonebrewer]

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

Lactic acid can cause "off flavors" so phosphoric is preferred by people like Gordon Strong over lactic.

 

[IslandLizard]

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

Lactic acid can cause "off flavors" so phosphoric is preferred by people like Gordon Strong over lactic.

+1 ^

But you can use either. A pint of 80% phosphoric will last a long, long time. First you'd dilute some of it to 20% or 10% and a few teaspoons of the diluted acid per 5 gallons should correct the pH. A pH meter comes in handy, although an online calculator can be used if you know your water chemistry.

Lactic acid has a lower taste threshold than phosphoric. In small quantities, you can't taste either, but if you need to use larger amounts, lactic shows a distinct flavor, akin to sour milk. Phosphoric doesn't and is therefore used in sodas.

In practice, you'll rarely cross the taste threshold of lactic when used in the mash. If you find you need to use larger quantities of acid something is wrong with your water composition, likely high alkalinity and that should be combat first by dilution or complete substitution with RO, DI, or distilled water, unless you're trying to mimic a historic water profile like Burton.

Acidulated malt contains lactic acid, naturally produced by lactobacillus. That stuff is pricey.

 

[sweetcell]

Acidulated malt contains lactic acid, naturally produced by lactobacillus. That stuff is pricey.

i typically need 20 cents worth of acidulated for my batches (to be more precise, i need to replace a portion of 2-row with acidulated, and typically that upgrade costs about $0.20).

to me it's worth 20 cents to not have to deal with eye protection and gloves, dedicated containers, putting on long/protective clothes on a hot day, carefully measure & dilute, etc.

but YMMV, and i wouldn't doubt that i'm missing other advantages of using acid instead of acidulated.

 

[masonsjax]

That stuff isn't as dangerous as all that. I tasted a drop undiluted, it's very tangy, i wouldn't recommend it, but it didn't burn a hole in my finger or tongue. Starsan is essentially the same thing, with added detergent. I don't wear gloves when mixing Starsan either.

Other advantages are acidifying sparge water if you need to.

 

[IslandLizard]

i typically need 20 cents worth of acidulated for my batches (to be more precise, i need to replace a portion of 2-row with acidulated, and typically that upgrade costs about $0.20).

to me it's worth 20 cents to not have to deal with eye protection and gloves, dedicated containers, putting on long/protective clothes on a hot day, carefully measure & dilute, etc.

but YMMV, and i wouldn't doubt that i'm missing other advantages of using acid instead of acidulated.

The main advantages of using acid over acidulated malt is you can acidify your sparge water, which I always do and at different rates than mash water. See Bru'n Water. You can also add it to the mash directly to tweak or correct the pH when it's too high.

Although it depends on the brewing water and grist composition, using acidulated malt at a rate of 1% of the total grist will drop the pH by 0.1, typically.

So for example, if the pH of your (small) test mash comes out at 5.8, substituting 4% of your base malt with acidulated malt should drop it to 5.4. On a 12# grist bill, 4% equals 7.7oz of acidulated (1.9oz for each percent). And yeah, that's about $0.10 more than the base malt.

Alternatively you can add to your mash water:
5.8ml (1.1 tsp) of 88% Lactic Acid, or
4.8ml (1 tsp) of 80% Phosphoric Acid, or
28ml* of 20% Phosphoric Acid, or
61ml* of 10% Phosphoric Acid.

* Don't ask me why the acid amounts needed don't scale proportionally with reduced concentration, it puzzles me too. I grabbed the numbers off Brewersfriend's chemistry calculator to match the pH for the different dilutions. Bru'n water gives similar results.

Your sparge water can be spiked with minerals and acid at different rates, or the same.