Critique wanted: El Dorado/Azaaca/Citra citradelic IPA

[Juno_Malone]

So, ever since I read about El Dorado and Azaaca hops, I've wanted to do a trio citrus IPA with those two along with Citra. I've also read that Honey malt, in small quantities (2-3%) can really compliment these citrusy hops. So, here's version 1.0 of what I'm looking to brew:

Title: Citrus-a-delic IPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.4 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.2 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.047
Efficiency: 67% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 6.78%
IBU (tinseth): 76.42
SRM (morey): 10.5

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - American - Pale Ale (83.3%)
1 lb - American - Munich - Light 10L (6.9%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3.5%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (3.5%)
0.4 lb - Canadian - Honey Malt (2.8%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 17.12
1.25 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 33.51
0.75 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 21.04
1.25 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 1 min, IBU: 2.91
0.75 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Boil for 1 min, IBU: 1.83
2 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1.5 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 21 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.25 tsp - Fermax, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Rogue Pacman 1764
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 78%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 66 F

Things I'm considering:
-Swapping the pale ale malt for Maris Otter, and removing the Munich.
-Subbing Vermont Conan yeast for the Rogue Pacman.
-Taking the 15 minute hop additions (Azaaca/Dorado) and splitting them up in to 10min and 5min additions.

Any input gladly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[TorMag]

I will be following this thread. New Belgium's Citredelic is my favorite right now.

 

[m00ps]

I dont think you want that much honey along with crystal in an IPA. Id ditch the crystal and keep the honey if thats what you are going for. Munich really has no place here either IMO

Are you steeping the hops at all at flameout? Id definitely up the amounts and steep them

 

[Juno_Malone]

I will be following this thread. New Belgium's Citredelic is my favorite right now.

Sorry, didn't mean to get your hops up - this isn't meant to be a Citradelic clone. I'm just calling it Citrusadelic because of the characteristics of Azaaca/El Dorado/Citra hops. But if you like citrus-y IPAs, stay tuned I guess. But I won't be brewing this for another couple months.

I dont think you want that much honey along with crystal in an IPA. Id ditch the crystal and keep the honey if thats what you are going for. Munich really has no place here either IMO

Are you steeping the hops at all at flameout? Id definitely up the amounts and steep them

Hmm..I don't mind ditching the Crystal. I added the Munich for a little bit of malt backbone; I'd probably remove it if I swap the Pale Ale malt for Maris Otter. Or maybe ditch the Munich and throw in a half pound of Melanoidin malt instead?

As far as the 1-minute hop additions, yeah I'm considering to making them just flameout hops instead. Thrown in at flameout, given 20 minutes to sit before I turn on the wort chiller. I may add in another 1-2oz of Azaaca/Citra somewhere in the 15min to flameout range.

 

[Patrick87]

I'd drop the C60 and use a couple more ounces of hops at flame-out/hopstand and at least a couple more ounces for the dry hop. I'm sure it'll be good which ever way you decide to go, though.

 

[Juno_Malone]

I'd drop the C60 and use a couple more ounces of hops at flame-out/hopstand and at least a couple more ounces for the dry hop. I'm sure it'll be good which ever way you decide to go, though.

That's two votes to drop the C60, sounds like I'll do that! Is that because the Pale Ale/Munich malt will provide enough malt background to where the C60 is overkill?

And I'm leaning towards retooling the hop schedule now, focusing on 10 min, 5 min, 0 min, and 180F additions.

 

[Patrick87]

That's two votes to drop the C60, sounds like I'll do that! Is that because the Pale Ale/Munich malt will provide enough malt background to where the C60 is overkill?

And I'm leaning towards retooling the hop schedule now, focusing on 10 min, 5 min, 0 min, and 180F additions.

In my opinion, yes.

 

[jammin]

i would:

swap the munich for more 2 row.

sub the both the carapils and crystal for dextrose.

move 15min & 1min hops to 180* hop steep and double amount.

up the total ounces of dry hop but limit Azacca to 2oz max dry hop. ive used it a lot and can get spicy in high quantity. perhaps add in some El Dorado and more Citra.


i think those revisions would allow the honey malt to stand alone and really give big hop presence with crisp finish (so you can drink more!)

thats my 2 cents

 

[m00ps]

Yeah, a lot of brewers seem to have some kind of notion that they need to "balance" their IPAs with sizable amounts of crystal or munich or something. I think its just cause of so many generic lazy descriptions from breweries that their IPA has a "malt backbone" to stand up to the hops.

Hogwash, IPAs arent supposed to be balanced and if it is, im probably not finishing it

 

[filthyastronaut]

That type of Munich sounds like it's a crystal malt, or is it Bonlander? Regardless, to add a little bit of malt character I would change it to some nice light German Munich. Munich is a base malt and will contribute to a malty backbone that is desirable in IPAs to me. It won't really contribute sweetness. In conjunction with honey malt, which is powerful, and C60, you may find yourself with too much malt and sweetness. I would take out both the honey and crystal, but it's up to you if you really want to keep the honey. When I design IPAs, I typically decide if I'm going to be using a malty base malt, like Vienna or Munich, or a neutral base malt like 2-row with some specialty malts added. If the Munich is a base malt, such a small addition will have less presence than you might think, and in my opinion you can go 100 percent Munich and in an IPA and it would be delicious.

I recently brewed something inspired by Citradelic, with Vienna, Oats, all Citra, and zest from Sumo Tangerines and Blood Oranges. I wish you luck, because this type of brew will be perfect for the season.

 

[Juno_Malone]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Here's the new recipe based on input provided:


Title: Citral Pleasure IPA
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.4 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.050
Efficiency: 67% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 7.06%
IBU (tinseth): 60.41
SRM (morey): 8.3

FERMENTABLES:
12.5 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (83.3%)
1.5 lb - American - Munich - Dark 20L (10%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3.3%)
0.5 lb - Canadian - Honey Malt (3.3%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 16.7
1 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 19.11
0.5 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 10
0.5 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.25
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 3.85
0.5 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.5
1 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: 180F Hopstand
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: 180F Hopstand
0.5 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: 180F Hopstand
1.5 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 21 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.4 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.25 tsp - Fermax, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Rogue Pacman 1764
Starter: Yes
Attenuation (custom): 78%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

 

[jammin]

Still think you should move the late additions to whirlpool. It really will give your beer more flavor

 

[TorMag]

So Juno, did you ever make this? How did it turn out?

 

[Juno_Malone]

So Juno, did you ever make this? How did it turn out?

Well, I brewed it last Saturday so the only taste I've had was the cooled wort gravity sample...which was delightful. I changed up the recipe a decent bit - took some folks advice and moved nearly all the hops towards the last five minutes of the boil, dropped the Citra, went for even parts El Dorado/Azaaca, and ended up using Wyeast 1764 Pacman. Here's the final recipe:

Name: Citral Pleasure IPA
Method: All Grain
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Efficiency: 65% (brew house)
OG: 1.065
SRM: 8
IBU: 67

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
12.5 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 83.3%
1.5 lb American - Munich - Dark 20L 33 20 10%
0.5 lb American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) 33 1.8 3.3%
0.5 lb Canadian - Honey Malt

Mash
5 gallons @ 152F for 60 minutes
4 gallon batch sparge @ 170F
7.0gal collected pre-boil

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Columbus Pellet 13.4 Boil 60 min 45.97
1 oz Azacca Pellet 12.7 Boil 5 min 8.69
1 oz El Dorado Pellet 15.7 Boil 5 min 10.74
0.5 oz Azacca Pellet 12.7 Boil 1 min 0.94
0.5 oz El Dorado Pellet 15.7 Boil 1 min 1.16
1 oz Azacca Pellet 12.7 Aroma 0 min
1 oz El Dorado Pellet 15.7 Aroma 0 min
0.5 oz Azacca Pellet 12.7 Whirlpool at 180 °F 0 min
0.5 oz El Dorado Pellet 15.7 Whirlpool at 180 °F 0 min
1 oz Azacca Pellet 12.7 Dry Hop 7 days
1 oz El Dorado Pellet 15.7 Dry Hop 7 days

Other Ingredients
Amount Name Type Use Time
0.5 tsp Irish Moss Fining Boil 15 min.
0.25 tsp Fermax Other Boil 10 min.

Yeast
Wyeast - Rogue Pacman 1764
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 °F
Starter: Yes - 3L
Fermentation Temp: 61-64 °F for five days then ramped up to 68F.

I'll post back with results once it's ready for drinking!

 

[TorMag]

Thanks for posting that final. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Juno_Malone]

Thanks for posting that final. Let us know how it turns out.

Racked to secondary today, and dry hopped with 1oz Azaaca and 1oz El Dorado. Gravity sample tasted amazing. FG was 1.011, I'll be bottling this next weekend.

 

[Juno_Malone]

Bottled today after 7 days on dry hop. Smelled AMAZING. I think this has the potential to be the best IPA I've brewed. I'll update in a couple weeks with the first tasting.

 

[Juno_Malone]

Thanks for posting that final. Let us know how it turns out.

Been drinking this for the last month or two...and it's fantastic. Strong citrus flavors of watermelon and pineapple. Really well balanced. If you like citrus IPAs, this one is a must-try. I'd like to do a split batch next summer, one with only Azaaca and one with only El Dorado to really get an idea of who is contributing what.

 

[TorMag]

Will try this sometime soon.