Cream Ale - Water,process etc..

[ryan83]

So I'm cheating a little bit because i'm not necessarily a beginner, however I'm a beginner when it comes to water profiles and I have not brewed since my divorce which was about 2 years ago so in a lot of ways i feel like a beginner (And this Forum had the most threads so i assume it get looked at more frequently) . I have made some (In my opinion) some exceptional brews; my system includes a 3 station stand, with 2 burners, two pumps and I MASH using HERMS, I boil hard and have a 2 step wort chiller (pre-chill ground water in ice bath) I ferment in a closed temperature controlled box made of 2inch thick insulation. It's very "Manual" or "Labor Intensive" but i never got to fully finish my build before my life changed however generally i've gotten great feedback on my brews and in the case of my Cream Ale it is very clear and appeals to BMC drinkers.

So, I want to get back into brewing for two reasons; 1. I'm tired of buying beer, it's expensive and usually I'm unsatisfied 2. the biggest reason is my sister is getting married next year and she asked that i brew beer for her wedding. I don't want to disappoint. I want to "remaster" my process and make improvements where i left off, one beer I prided myself on was the cream ale because I had the opinion it was difficult to brew since it was difficult to hide imperfections.

When i brewed, i always made an guesstimate blend of RO/Charcoal Filtered Tap water depending on the beer i was making. I never fully understood the ins and outs of water so I've been doing a little research and I'm not sure what i'm doing is correct.


My grain bill consists of consists of approx 60% 2 row 20% flaked rice and 20% flaked corn, I mash low at 148-150F for a light mouth feel and Boil for 90minutes with light 60min Saaz/Cascade additions and I'll ferment at the lower spectrum rated for the yeast. According to Beer Smith my SRM should be around 2.9. My Source water is RO/DI and I'm using John Palmers MASH RA spreadsheet to calculate my salt additions (But this is where I'm not sure if what I'm doing is correct)

Step 1. I input 2.9 for target SRM Results in -87 ~ -28 Est. RA
Step 2. I input all 0's for source water
Step 3. Skip
Step 4. I input -37 for total RA and 13Gallons for Volume
Step 5. I just started inputing values in until i got an executable range of RA and less than 200ppm total contributed hardness as CaCO3
(4 grams Gypsum, 5 Grams Calcium Chloride, and 3.5 grams of Epsom)

The results i think are good but I'm not sure.
In ppm; calcium 47, Magnesium 7, Alkalinity as CaCO3 0, sodium 0, chloride 49, and Effective hardness 37, RA as CaCO3 -37 Est SRM 2-7 with a Sulfate to Chloride Ratio that is "Balanced"

Is this done correctly, meaning is this an ok water to brew my cream ale with?


Best Regards,

 

[Natdavis777]

I think it looks good to brew with. Your grain bill percentages and gypsum/chloride additions look pretty similar to my cream ale recipe, which is one of the best beers I brew (also using RO water). I dont use epsom salt, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt.

Edit: I do have to add a small amount (3.5mL) lactic acid to mash to hit a pH of 5.4 since there is little acid contribution from the malt bill.

For future water profiles, Id suggest checking out Brun Water. You can input your grain bill, water volumes, specify your source water to RO/DI, and easily fine tune your mash pH and overall water profile.

 

[Yooper]

I would NOT add gypsum or MgSo4 to water for a cream ale.

Use enough calcium chloride to get your Ca++ to 40-50 ppm or so, and that's about it. You want soft water, and a mash pH of 5.3 or so. Target the proper mash pH and pretend you never heard the phrase "sulfate/chloride ratio" and the beer will be awesome.

 

[brew703]

Im in the same boat. I tried Bru n water's spreadsheet. It is very informative but somewhat difficult. So i just opt for filtered water from one of those machines. I only add 1 tsp calcium chloride and i have not had a bad beer.
I'll continue to play around but I dont have a ph meter or anything so I just wing it.

 

[ryan83]

Thank you all so much for the replies - So based on those replies i have a few questions. Why not Gypsum? I blindly added minerals to get the results i thought i wanted and yes i was shooting for the chloride/sulfate Ratio so i guess i'm ignorant to what the minerals are actually doing. Secondly i didn't know exactly what i needed to pay attention to for example do i need to care about total contributed hardness or only the effective hardness or do i need to pay attention to both? Just playing with the spreadsheet and the ratio cell i thought i got the just of what was being affected. So doing only a Ca++ only addition definitely throws the flag of "Too Malty" but it seemingly allowed me to be more specific on my effective hardness and RA- Do not pay attention to this? Only for Cream Ale or for all styles?Also if i tried to balance without using gypsum my contributed hardness rises but the effective hardness only minimally. Lol water can be overwhelming for a noob but wow I can see the affects and benefits of developing an understanding. Don't give up on me, i promise i'm learning and researching in the background!! I do understand I'll have to play around with this in brews I'm just trying to get a close as possible and with a better understanding of why i'm doing.

Best Regards,

 

[Yooper]

Thank you all so much for the replies - So based on those replies i have a few questions. Why not Gypsum? I blindly added minerals to get the results i thought i wanted and yes i was shooting for the chloride/sulfate Ratio so i guess i'm ignorant to what the minerals are actually doing. Secondly i didn't know exactly what i needed to pay attention to for example do i need to care about total contributed hardness or only the effective hardness or do i need to pay attention to both? Just playing with the spreadsheet and the ratio cell i thought i got the just of what was being affected. So doing only a Ca++ only addition definitely throws the flag of "Too Malty" but it seemingly allowed me to be more specific on my effective hardness and RA- Do not pay attention to this? Only for Cream Ale or for all styles?Also if i tried to balance without using gypsum my contributed hardness rises but the effective hardness only minimally. Lol water can be overwhelming for a noob but wow I can see the affects and benefits of developing an understanding. Don't give up on me, i promise i'm learning and researching in the background!! I do understand I'll have to play around with this in brews I'm just trying to get a close as possible and with a better understanding of why i'm doing.

Best Regards,

Why not gypsum? Well, that adds sulfate (which you don't want or need).

Your next question:
"Secondly i didn't know exactly what i needed to pay attention to for example do i need to care about total contributed hardness or only the effective hardness or do i need to pay attention to both? "

No. Neither.

Next question:
Also if i tried to balance without using gypsum my contributed hardness rises but the effective hardness only minimally

I'm not sure of the question here? You want SOFT water here, or at least low in minerals and alkalinity.

Your ONLY important criteria at first is mash pH.

If I can explain it this way. Say, you are making spaghetti sauce and are adding some garlic. Adding XXXXXX amount of onions won't change the amount of garlic you want- there is no garlic/onion ratio. The same is true of the chloride/sulfate ration. If you add 150 ppm of chloride (don't!!!) you can't 'erase' that by adding sulfate. Just like if you add 17 onions to the spaghetti sauce, you can't 'erase' the garlic ratio here. (again, don't!!!!!!)

Once you hit your mash pH, consider the other stuff as "salts' or "flavorings". You don't need ANY magnesium at all. You don't need any sulfate, either- not in this beer. Calcium isn't needed (you have plenty), but the beer may clear faster/better with 50 ppm, so you may want to add some. Since you don't want sulfate in a cream ale, you can add it via calcium chloride. Since chloride provides a "roundness" of flavors, bringing the chloride up, and the calcium at the same time, makes sense. But it can be low- 50 ppm, for example- and still be fine.

In general. RO water is ideal. Adding a little bit of something may be a good idea- but generally, "less is more" does apply.

 

[ryan83]

Ok to simplify / a 9gram calcium chloride addition to 13gallons of water would yield 50ppm of calcium and 88ppm of chloride resulting in a -36 RA. From here i would measure my mash PH and if high add some quantity of lactic acid?

 

[Yooper]

Ok to simplify / a 9gram calcium chloride addition to 13gallons of water would yield 50ppm of calcium and 88ppm of chloride resulting in a -36 RA. From here i would measure my mash PH and if high add some quantity of lactic acid?

Yes- exactly! Or phosphoric acid. I'd use a spreadsheet to help predict the pH Brewer's Friend is easy to use and is pretty accurate, or Bru'nwater is great but has a learning curve.