Crazy idea, think it will work?

[M12345]

I'm in the process of making my first hard cider. I want the end product to be sweet but not carbonated. So once fermentation is done if i back sweeten to taste and throw it into a stockpot and heat to 145 for ten mins will it pasteurize/kill all yeast and not cook off the alcohol? Then from the pot while the cider is hot can I throw it in mason jars and put lids on it. Will all the yeast be dead to prevent explosions? The hot liquid should seal the jars. I have a ton of jars but not bottling equipment so digured Id see if that would work before going to get the beer bottle equipment. Anyone think this will work and not explode or cause the cider to loose the alcohol or spoil over time in the jars?? Thanks

 

[The_Bishop]

Heating the cider in an open container will drive off aromatics and some of the alcohol. I'm sure it won't do the flavor any favors, either.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Sounds like a lot of work for something that you can do at consumption time!

Just bottle the finished product, and at serving time, add either apple juice or simple syrup.

I don't care for flat cider myself.

MC

 

[number40fan]

Put the sweetened cider in the sealed jars and then put them in a 160° pot for 10 minutes. That will do exactly what you want.

 

[zeekage]

I believe this is usually done with Sulfites to stop yeast metabolism. I think there's one other chemical way to do it as well but i forget what one it is. Search around here and on wine/cider forums for it. Back sweetening cider is a common practice. I personally would not heat it up to pasteurize it, as I'm sure that would affect flavor adversely.

 

[Yooper]

You would oxidize the cider by the transfer as well as the wide headspace. Heating may also cause the alcohol to vaporize (ethanol boils at a far lower temperature than water).

I'd either stabilize with sorbate and campden, or bottle pasteurize. Either would work, and not ruin the cider.

 

[ciderlover]

Pasteurization is probably your best bet.

Just be safe! http://www.ciderhomebrewing.com/2011/05/pasteurization-explosion.html

Given the fact that you're not going to let them prime, your risk is probably much lower.

 

[number40fan]

If you have a dish washer with a sterilization setting, use it. That will contain any messes that might happen.

 

[j1n]

i guess i'm the only one that advocates filtering the yeast. The goal is to stop the yeast, why not just remove them vs trying to kill them somehow.

 

[Yooper]

i guess i'm the only one that advocates filtering the yeast. The goal is to stop the yeast, why not just remove them vs trying to kill them somehow.

You're right- that is the ideal way! But most cidermakers don't have filtering gear, especially sterile pads (.5 micron) and co2 to push it though a plate filter or a pump. Alot of serious homewinemakers have that equipment, but a pump and plate filter and the pads is generally in excess of $300.

Brewers can do it easier, as many of us have kegging gear and can just use our beer filtering setup.

 

[M12345]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. It's seeme the cheapest and easiest is to kill off the yeast with an additive. Anyone suggest what is best? Once that is done do you think I could still bottle it in the mason jars? How would I see them of them liquid isn't hot, put them in a low temp water bath? If I don't go the chemical route I'll put the sweetened cider in the jars then water bath at 160 degrees for ten minutes like suggested and that should kill the yeast and seal the jars. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. It's seeme the cheapest and easiest is to kill off the yeast with an additive. Anyone suggest what is best? Once that is done do you think I could still bottle it in the mason jars? How would I see them of them liquid isn't hot, put them in a low temp water bath? If I don't go the chemical route I'll put the sweetened cider in the jars then water bath at 160 degrees for ten minutes like suggested and that should kill the yeast and seal the jars. Thanks again everyone.

Bottle it in mason jars? You could, but how will you seal them? Heat the lids and put them on? Does that work that way?

In order to stabilize the cider, once it's totally clear and no longer dropping any lees at all, you can rack it onto a combination of dissolved campden tablets and sorbate. the "dose" is 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon and 1/2 teaspoon of sorbate per gallon. You can mix them together to dissolve, add that to your new carboy and rack the cider into that. Wait a day or two, and then sweeten to taste. Wait a day or two, and proceed with bottling. The wait ensures that the fermentation will not restart, so that's why it's important to wait and not bottle immediately.

 

[number40fan]

Yooper, have you never canned any food? Even though they call it canning, it is done in jars.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, have you never canned any food? Even though they call it canning, it is done in jars.

Of course. But I've never bottled cider in a mason jar. Canning works because it creates a vaccum, while sometimes bottling cider and always when bottling beer, it creates pressure. Mason jars and their lids are designed to hold a vacuum, and not pressure. Any pressure at all, from residual c02 or refermentation, and the seal will be lost. I'm not even sure a seal could be created, without vacuum pressure actually.

When you can, the hot food cooling is what causes the vacuum and hence the sealing. It's not sealed until the cooling pulls that vacuum, though.

 

[j1n]

You will lose the seal like Yooper said. I store yeast in mason jars and sometimes if i seal it too early the positive pressure deforms the lid and pressure escapes.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Quote: Then from the pot while the cider is hot can I throw it in mason jars and put lids on it.

With a reasonably warm cider, the lid would pop in (not out).

To me it's just too much trouble. Just back sweeten at drinking time since it won't be carbonated.

MC

 

[ChemEng]

What about something like this:

http://www.foodsaver.com/accessories/T03-0006-02P.html?gclid=CN6W2ISa1cECFQMT7AodrBYAVQ&kwid=productads-plaid^18283950120-sku^T03@ADL40006@ADL402P-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^45793026850

Would be a cheap canning solution if you already have a bag sealer.

I have been thinking about getting one of these to seal large jars of DME so it does not get lumpy.

 

[The_Bishop]

Or, I don't know... Put it in bottles?

 

[Nogud247]

This guy puts wine in mason jars then uses the above linked food saver vac thingy. Maybe what you want maybe not. Please keep us updated though.

 

[WVMJ]

We use that thingy to take the air out of jars of stuff we have dried like peppers or apples. I think our newbie though is more likely to not produce a cider that is actually ready to go into a mason jar and will eventually have lots of jars of vinegar from the air coming back in later.

Beer bottles, caps and a capper are not that expensive if you want to make hard cider, save your jars for pickles.

WVMJ

 

[WVMJ]

Now they are also selling half gallon mason jars. We also use it to take the air out of jars with tannins and other winemaking chems, works very well. WVMJ

What about something like this:

http://www.foodsaver.com/accessories/T03-0006-02P.html?gclid=CN6W2ISa1cECFQMT7AodrBYAVQ&kwid=productads-plaid^18283950120-sku^T03@ADL40006@ADL402P-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^45793026850

Would be a cheap canning solution if you already have a bag sealer.

I have been thinking about getting one of these to seal large jars of DME so it does not get lumpy.

 

[The_Bishop]

That vacuum sealer would probably work if you had 100% degassed liquid. Being that there is nearly *always* some dissolved co2, I don't think you'd keep a vacuum for long. Also, the headspace would be a killer.

 

[M12345]

That vacuum sealer would probably work if you had 100% degassed liquid. Being that there is nearly *always* some dissolved co2, I don't think you'd keep a vacuum for long. Also, the headspace would be a killer.

Chemicals wouldn't take care of the yeast and thus prevent any gas? Thanks for the discussing everyone. I guess I'll most likely go buy the bottling equipment and hope it turns out good and I make more to get more use out of the equipment.

 

[Yooper]

Chemicals wouldn't take care of the yeast and thus prevent any gas? Thanks for the discussing everyone. I guess I'll most likely go buy the bottling equipment and hope it turns out good and I make more to get more use out of the equipment.

No. Stabilizing the cider should prevent any refermentation, but sometimes there is still dissolved c02 in the cider when you bottle it.

 

[hopfool]

We do a lot of pressure canning, drying, pickling, etc., and have the vac attachment for the Food Saver as well. The vac attachment works fine for short term dry goods (as mentioned, dehydrated peppers, soup starters and such) but it is no kind of substitute for regular canning protocol.

Made a couple of ciders (dry pear and sweet apple) and decided on re-purposed Champagne bottles for the sweetened apple after using beer bottles for the dryer pear cider. The pear stays in the frig and the apple got campden tablets before storing in the sub-basement at 60 F. So far so good after about two months. Last year's pear cleared wonderfully after about six months and no mechanical filtering.