Couple of mashing questions

[neumann]

I've been brewing all grain now for a few months and I've got a few questions.
1. My cooler seems to lose a few degrees (2 or 3) during a 60 minute mash. Do you guys mash in a few degrees higher to finish at the target temp or do you start at your target and finish lower? Or, do you split the difference?

2. How often should I be stirring during a 60 minute mash? I just been stirring when I mash in and each time I add my water batches. Am I losing efficiency by not stirring more?

3. I use a stainless steal braid from a toilet supply line with nothing in it. Would I get better efficiency with something in the line to hold it open or with a copper or CPVC manifold?

Thanks for all the help you guys have provided over the past few months.

 

[Clonefarmer]

I've been brewing all grain now for a few months and I've got a few questions.
1. My cooler seems to lose a few degrees (2 or 3) during a 60 minute mash. Do you guys mash in a few degrees higher to finish at the target temp or do you start at your target and finish lower? Or, do you split the difference?

2. How often should I be stirring during a 60 minute mash? I just been stirring when I mash in and each time I add my water batches. Am I losing efficiency by not stirring more?

3. I use a stainless steal braid from a toilet supply line with nothing in it. Would I get better efficiency with something in the line to hold it open or with a copper or CPVC manifold?

Thanks for all the help you guys have provided over the past few months.

1. Feel the cooler when you mash. If there are any warm spots you are losing heat there. Some insulation or even a blanket wrapped around it can help. I only lose about 1 degree with my current set up so I don't adjust. My old cooler lost a few degrees and needed to be insulated.

2. I don't stir during the mash. Only at Strike and when I add sparge water. I get decent efficiency on average.

3. Personally I like the manifold set up. I can't say if either way is better.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

1. you're likely losing your temp when you stir.
2. see above, just verify that you don't have any doughballs and that your have an even temp throughout the mash, then walk away
3. I use a cpvc manifold and love it, but like clonefarmer, can't say either way is better.

 

[HodgsonsBrewer]

I wrap my cooler in a blanket and I no longer lose the 2 to 3 degrees.
I only stir during dough in and hot water additions too.
I changed from SS braid to a pvc manifold, my efficiency did get better. Good Luck!

 

[neumann]

I changed from SS braid to a pvc manifold, my efficiency did get better. Good Luck!

What did your numbers change from and to? I am getting consistently about 60% and I have resigned myself to that number until I can afford to but a mill but if I can eek out another 5-10% by changing manifolds, I will.

 

[Pilgarlic]

I get 75% with the stainless steel braid. I stir it every fifteen minutes. I lose 2-3 degrees over the course of the mash and I'm okay with that. If I have a consistent problem it's overattenuation. I'm working on that with mash temp.

 

[jgourd]

I get 75% consistently with a CPVC manifold, a grain mill, and I stir only when I pour the grain into the strike water (I let my tun warm up first for a few minutes) and mash for 60-90 minutes. I then mash-out with water to increase them temperature of the grist to about 168 and mix a bit before collecting my first runnings. I then sparge, mix, and collect second runnings. Oh, and the grain mill got me over 10 points on my efficiency.

 

[HodgsonsBrewer]

I went from hi 60s to mid 70s. not a big jump lol.

 

[sambogi76]

I tried something new today when I did a batch today. I had to do a longer mash (90 min.) @ 147 deg. and was worried about dropping much below that. So what I did is a thicker than usual mash and when I stirred my temp would drop a degree or two so I would add a half a quart of boiling water and I maintained 147 the whole mash with only 3 additions of boiling water (1.5 quarts). I got 85% efficiency.!

 

[nootay]

sambogi, did you add 1.5 quarts each time? or 1.5 quarts total? im going to be doing my first all grain in about 2 weeks and its a 90 minute mash

 

[sambogi76]

1.5 total ( I used 3 additions of .5 quarts each)

 

[DrColossus11]

Are you preheating your mash tun? I heat my water up a few degrees above mash in and let my tun heat up for a few minutes till the temp is right, then mash in.

 

[jgourd]

In my strike water temp calculation, I always add 3 to 5 degrees more or so to account for filling the tun (takes a little time to transfer the strike water from my keggle), preheating the tun, and mixing the grains thoroughly. This usually gets me to my target mash temp. My tun is well insulated, so I usually lose no more than 1 degree over 60 mins.

 

[steakandale]

1. I wouldn't sweat dropping a degree or two. Some brewers have felt for the hot spots, drilled holes and squirted in RV foam sealant into the walls - or ty a blanket wrap.
2. I stir about half the grain rather thin at first then combine the full volume making sure there are no doughballs. Then leave it alone for 60. I stir at halfway briefly for 90 mins. batches.
3. I can't see how a braid vs. manifold will have any affect on efficiency, both are just draining. Efficiency is all temps, and conversion - shoud be the same.

 

[shadowmage36]

1) +1000 to what everyone's been saying about pre-heating the mash tun. You don't even have to wait for it to heat up. I generally find that if you're looking for a 154F mash temp (Medium-body), you need to put in your normal mash ratio (1.25 qt/lb for me) at about 170F. I use a 10-gallon rubbermaid mash tun with SS braid a-la FlyGuy's method.
2) Don't stir during your mash unless you're doing a stepped mash. That just means you've opened your tun, which lets out heat. Stir when you dough in and when you sparge. No need to otherwise.
3)If you're worried about your conversion affecting your efficiency, spend ten bucks and buy a bottle of iodophor. Just as you're getting ready to sparge, pull off a bit of your wort into a saucer and add a few drops of iodophor. If it turns black, you still have starch. If not, you're good to go on your mashout/sparge/what have you.

(My $0.02. )

 

[neumann]

I thought I would make it clear that I am preheating my mash tun and that I am usually right at my strike temp when I dough in and hit my mash temp pretty well. It's just that by the time I start sparging, I've lost 2-3 degrees. But I won't worry about it the temps too much, though. I would like to get my efficiency up, but seems like I'm stuck with ~60% until I can get a mill.

 

[shadowmage36]

The first time I used my MLT, I got utterly crap efficiency (~54% IIRC). However, this was because the mill at my LHBS was busted and I had to mill the ENTIRE GRIST on a corona mill they had, and a poorly-tuned one at that. Since they fixed their mill, my two most recent batches have been spot-on at 75% efficiency. If you have a competent LHBS with a good mill (or as some people here have said, you order from BMW) you can get perfectly acceptable efficiency without the hefty investment in your own grain mill.

That being said, I'm still planning on getting a mill, but probably not until I move into a new place. My LHBS will do for now.

EDIT: Those are BREWHOUSE efficiencies, FYI, not mash efficiencies. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[DNW]

I would like to get my efficiency up, but seems like I'm stuck with ~60% until I can get a mill.

If your crush is not fine enough, ask them to run it through twice (or just do it if it's self serve).

 

[payton34]

i preheat my mlt and did not lose any temp. i also have some foil faced insulation cut to to fit right over the mash

 

[sambogi76]

i preheat my mlt and did not lose any temp. i also have some foil faced insulation cut to to fit right over the mash

+1 on this... More you insulate the top of your MLT the better. You lose the most heat from the lid on your cooler.

You need to stir your mash at least 2X through your mash to prevent cool spots... I do this and get a pretty solid 88% eff., I know this isn't a deciding factor for efficiencies but im sure it helps. If you don't want to open and stir, at least agitate it some with the lid shut.

 

[snevey]

On a 5 or 10 gallon rubbermaid/igloo/etc round cooler with the round lid on top, is that hollow? is it possible to drill a, say 1/2" hole and blast some expandafoam insulation in there to help with insulation?

 

[shadowmage36]

On a 5 or 10 gallon rubbermaid/igloo/etc round cooler with the round lid on top, is that hollow? is it possible to drill a, say 1/2" hole and blast some expandafoam insulation in there to help with insulation?

Yes, it is hollow AFAIK, and you could probably just hook up a can of Great Stuff to it and fill the whole thing with that. However, air by itself is actually a pretty darn good insulator. I can hold 154F at the top of my mash for the entirety of a one hour sacc rest using just the stock 10-gallon rubbermaid. And that's with only 8 lbs of grain and 2.5 gallons water, so there's plenty of headspace to keep warm, too. Those things are actually remarkably thermally efficient right out of the box.

EDIT: You dont' actually need to drill a hole in it. There should be a small (~1/4-3/8") hole already in the lid around the edge. While you might want to drill it bigger, or drill one in the middle to get better fill coverage, you don't actually need too.