Counterflow Wort Chiller Build (and use)

[Dog House Brew]

I clean with hot PBW and rinse with the hot water that exits it when chilling. I then run sanitizer through it to store. I then blow mine out with an air compressor. When I brew I recirc with my pump the final 15 minutes of the boil. If I didn't have a pump, I would slowly drain sanitizer through it. I've not had any issues with this process. I did coil a 12 gauge copper ground wire around the outside of my chiller tube. Mine is 1/2" copper tube inside 1" rubber hose. It did make it more efficient, but I bought a small submersible pump that made the biggest difference. I freeze gallon jugs of water and mix it with water in a kiddie pool. I pump ice water through the CFC and can chill my 20 gallon batch in literally minutes, even in summer.

 

[Challey]

Some great info and photos on this thread, all very informative and useful.

I've been using an IC for years with mostly good results but have now decided to build a CFC. Some questions for those who've already built them:
1) The most common length seems to be 25'. Is there a reason for this or is longer better?
2) If longer is better, at what length do you reach the point of diminishing returns?
3) Some have used a wire wrap on the inner Cu coil to induce turbulance while others have not. Is the extra time and effort of the wrap worth it?
4) The most common combination is 3/8" Cu tubing in 5/8" hose. Some have had difficulty with this combination (specifically with inserting the tubing) - is it worth going to 3/4" hose to help this?

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I got a good deal on the online auction site beginning with "e" and have 50' of 3/8 soft copper tubing on the way.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Some great info and photos on this thread, all very informative and useful.

I've been using an IC for years with mostly good results but have now decided to build a CFC. Some questions for those who've already built them:
1) The most common length seems to be 25'. Is there a reason for this or is longer better?
2) If longer is better, at what length do you reach the point of diminishing returns?
3) Some have used a wire wrap on the inner Cu coil to induce turbulance while others have not. Is the extra time and effort of the wrap worth it?
4) The most common combination is 3/8" Cu tubing in 5/8" hose. Some have had difficulty with this combination (specifically with inserting the tubing) - is it worth going to 3/4" hose to help this?

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I got a good deal on the online auction site beginning with "e" and have 50' of 3/8 soft copper tubing on the way.

Thanks in advance.

1) Longer isn't always better. If you are gravity feeding your chiller, longer lengths of 3/8" diameter tubing will slow your flow rate, but increase your heat exchange efficiency to an extent, which leads me to...

2) That will depend on your cooling water temperature, among other variables. The larger the delta T, the better the heat exchange coefficient. There are essentially many steady states within the tubing as you are chilling, but once your curve reaches minimum delta T, longer tubing will no longer aid in heat exchange. It's basically a game of balancing flow rate with maximizing the heat exchange coefficient. This coefficient will depend on a number of variables, including your source water temp, your wort temp, flow rate, tubing material, and turbulence. Which leads me to...

3) This does aid in increasing your heat transfer coefficient, as long as the flow rate provides for a turbulent flow over the helical wire wrap. Is it worth it? That will depend. It's not necessary for me, since I live pretty far North where the water is cold. If you have warmer tap water, it would be a good idea to do anything you can to increase that coefficient, such as wrapping a wire around your tube.

4) I didn't have a problem with fishing my inner tube through the hose using some dish soap. If it's an issue, you could use larger hose diameter, but your cooling water flow rate will decrease. Again, depending on conditions, that may not matter.

Hope this helps.

 

[Eugenio]

I built mine with the soldered copper around it, actually didn't solder just wound it tightly. It worked beautifully and chills fast.


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[Mojzis]

I built mine with the soldered copper around it, actually didn't solder just wound it tightly. It worked beautifully and chills fast.


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Have you done a comparison between the chiller with the wire and without?

 

[Eugenio]

I haven't, but I'm sure it's worthwhile. You can hear the water rumbling, and it's not that muh extra effort. Plus, a more fun build.


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[Tiber_Brew]

Have you done a comparison between the chiller with the wire and without?

The principle is solid; it works. Just how much of a difference will depend on each setup and water temps, flow rates, etc.

 

[Mojzis]

I just figured it would be a pita to do with the rubber hose. It was hard enough to get the copper to go through the hose without the extra wire. Up in the north i'm not sure the benefit worth the extra effort lol

Also it would be cool if someone did a comparison. That data could be useful.

 

[Eugenio]

I live in boston, where its called as the devils....lets leave it there! I think it will be very handy to have in the summer, since water temp will be higher, and its also nice to be able to control the amount of water wasted in the winter. Did you use soapy water?

 

[Boogogee]

Built mine last week from your design. Used it this weekend and LOVED IT, easily saved me 2 hours of work(brewed 10gal batch and 5 gallon batch). We have well water, but it was going in at 200F and coming out 68F. I regulated the flow with a hose clamp on the discharge end. Can't wait to use it again!

 

[judeau13]

Going to start construction on one this weekend, wish me luck!

 

[njenabnit]

So I have 50ft of 1/2 OD ACR copper.... doesn't that mean that I use 3/8 fittings and can use the 5/8 rubber hose? Or should I shoot for 3/4 rubber hose?

My thought was that if I use the 5/8 hose, I will only have 1/8in of room for the hose water to flow through, but with the 3/4 I can get 1/4 inch of a gap between the copper and the hose.

What size is the fresh water gap supposed to be?

 

[Falcon3]

So I have 50ft of 1/2 OD ACR copper.... doesn't that mean that I use 3/8 fittings and can use the 5/8 rubber hose? Or should I shoot for 3/4 rubber hose?

My thought was that if I use the 5/8 hose, I will only have 1/8in of room for the hose water to flow through, but with the 3/4 I can get 1/4 inch of a gap between the copper and the hose.

What size is the fresh water gap supposed to be?

Use the bigger hose- the biggest (reasonably) you can get. The larger flow space outside your copper, the more waterflow and consequently, more cooling. With less space, the cooling water will flow slower and you won't get the desired cooling effect as well as you would with more water.

 

[njenabnit]

Use the bigger hose- the biggest (reasonably) you can get. The larger flow space outside your copper, the more waterflow and consequently, more cooling. With less space, the cooling water will flow slower and you won't get the desired cooling effect as well as you would with more water.

I'm sure there is an optimal thermal capacity vs flow somewhere in there. If there was a full inch of water around any point in the copper, I would think that it would be able to soak up a lot of heat, but then the flow would be quite a bit less. In the opposite case, 1/8th inch would flow quite quickly but not have much thermal capacity. I plan on pumping via one of the chugger pumps, so I'm not too worried about flow restriction and will probably opt for the 3/4 hose.

 

[atimmerman88]

I've been following this thread for a bit finally started my build.

I feel into 30' of 1" ID industrial hose so I'm using this with 1/2" copper. Got it threaded threw, thought I had the ends capped well enough but low and behold they leaked and I pinched the copper while winding.

Going to unwind it and pull it out, what's my best bet to fix it?

Cut out the pinch and solder in a coupler ?


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[buzzno]

That's what I would do. This time wrap it around a korney keg or something and it won't pinch.

 

[atimmerman88]

I was using a pin lock and had it pinch off in 2 spots.

I'll try and patch the spots then solder the end caps this time. does everybody have to sand/drill their reducers on their t joints to pass the copper tubing through


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[cank]

does everybody have to sand/drill their reducers on their t joints to pass the copper tubing through

I bought 30 off eBay that I did. It was a pain in the ars until I found a counter-sink bit that was the exact OD of the 1/2" copper.

 

[govner1]

You can also fill the tubing w/ very fine sand before bending and it will help prevent kinking.


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[greatplainsbrewer]

Fill the coil with water might be easier to prevent kinking

 

[atimmerman88]

I bought 30 off eBay that I did. It was a pain in the ars until I found a counter-sink bit that was the exact OD of the 1/2" copper.

Luckily I've got machine shop access so I'll hopefully have a bit...we've for 64th bits and reamers on most nominal sizes....just a PITA to do, at least copper is soft

You can also fill the tubing w/ very fine sand before bending and it will help prevent kinking.


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Hasn't thought about Sand but sounds like a messy ordeal.

Hoping the additional couples work and it goes smoother with the tubing filled and caps soldered on



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[Huaco]

Pack it with salt, not sand. Still allows for support in the tube to prevent collapse, but when you are done, you simply hook up the water hose and flush it out to clean it. Salt is water soluble, sand... not so much!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I used water to prevent kinking (as per my OP of this thread) with zero problems.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

I used water to prevent kinking (as per my OP of this thread) with zero problems.

Filled with water, then capped both ends, or did you freeze it?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

filled with room temp water, then crimped each end with pliers. Fold a cm or so over and crimp hard. No leaks, no hassle, drained after coiling was finished.

 

[atimmerman88]

Finally got this to work after I capped and filled the line with water.

1/2" copper and 1" ID hose

I added a ball valve on the outbound h2o to control flow.

Isn't as pretty as some, my coiling skills are lacking


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[Tiber_Brew]

Finally got this to work after I capped and filled the line with water.

1/2" copper and 1" ID hose

That looks like an awful small 90 deg barb on the wort output. It's a shame to see such a small bottleneck on a 1/2" wort line!

 

[Esmitee]

Finally got this to work after I capped and filled the line with water.

1/2" copper and 1" ID hose

I added a ball valve on the outbound h2o to control flow.

Isn't as pretty as some, my coiling skills are lacking


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Yes I agree with Tiber, your choking your output line a lot with that small 90.
Do you have a valve on the out put side of your pump......if your pumping wort through? if you don't, that valve would serve you best there to control the flow of wort passing through rather than controlling water flow.
If you do not use a pump, maybe water flow is more important than wort flow.
I wouldn't know cause I do pump with my CFC.
Anyway, you could have just put one of those plastic garden hose "ON/OFF" attachments right on the end of your hose before the CFC to control water flow if your that far away from the hose bib?

 

[atimmerman88]

That looks like an awful small 90 deg barb on the wort output. It's a shame to see such a small bottleneck on a 1/2" wort line!

Yes I agree with Tiber, your choking your output line a lot with that small 90.

Do you have a valve on the out put side of your pump......if your pumping wort through? if you don't, that valve would serve you best there to control the flow of wort passing through rather than controlling water flow.

If you do not use a pump, maybe water flow is more important than wort flow.

I wouldn't know cause I do pump with my CFC.

Anyway, you could have just put one of those plastic garden hose "ON/OFF" attachments right on the end of your hose before the CFC to control water flow if your that far away from the hose bib?

Guys....

Guess should've clarified. Those were just the fittings I had laying around when I made it. I'm going to get a 1/2" barb so I can use 1/2" ID hose.

I've got a 3/4" ball valve on my keggle I can control outbound flow which will be gravity fed.

I've got the valve on the CFC so I can Hopfully ensure that I've got a little bit of positive pressure inside the hose. And not waste as much water of possible.

I'm hoping with gravity few wort in 1/2" hose and 60 ish water I'll be able to get down to the mid 70s with this guy


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[atimmerman88]

Yes I agree with Tiber, your choking your output line a lot with that small 90.

Do you have a valve on the out put side of your pump......if your pumping wort through? if you don't, that valve would serve you best there to control the flow of wort passing through rather than controlling water flow.

If you do not use a pump, maybe water flow is more important than wort flow.

I wouldn't know cause I do pump with my CFC.

Anyway, you could have just put one of those plastic garden hose "ON/OFF" attachments right on the end of your hose before the CFC to control water flow if your that far away from the hose bib?

Got 1/2 barbs and 1/2 silicon tubing. Worked pretty well. Took me down to 85 which is alright considering the supply water temp


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[MedicMang]

Bump, so that I don't have to keep searching to the bottom of my participated list for this thread to read through it.

 

[Black_Z28]

What reducer fitting are you guys using if you bought the 3/8" refrigerant tubing? I looked all over the plumbing of the big box store and couldn't find anything. I found a 1/2"-3/8", and the 3/8" was too big...I assume because the refrigerant tubing is referenced in some other way?

Thank for any help.

 

[stlbeer]

s

 

[jafo28]

What reducer fitting are you guys using if you bought the 3/8" refrigerant tubing? I looked all over the plumbing of the big box store and couldn't find anything. I found a 1/2"-3/8", and the 3/8" was too big...I assume because the refrigerant tubing is referenced in some other way?

Thank for any help.

You need 1/2-1/4". It's not likely going to be at Home Depot, I don't know about Lowes. I have a plumbing supply store near me, and they had it. Grainger has them listed in their catalog also.

 

[Black_Z28]

You need 1/2-1/4". It's not likely going to be at Home Depot, I don't know about Lowes. I have a plumbing supply store near me, and they had it. Grainger has them listed in their catalog also.

Thank you sir. I'll try the local Hardware Hank.

 

[Irishmonster8]

I want to build this thing now. I have a few questions and comments before I start though and it seems like there are a lot of smart people in this thread that can help.

1. I live in El Paso, TX and the water temp is very warm, around 70 in the summer, but maybe 50s in the winter. I plan on doing a ice bath to circulate the water for cooler temps. My current IC is 50' of 3/8" copper. I was going to reuse that, but what kind of length should I use? I understand that a pump might be needed for the longer lengths unless there is a greater height differential from BK to fermenter.

2. I am in the Army and would like this to work in anywhere I could be, so that should be a consideration into the plan as well. What is a good average length for all different water temps?

3. I guess I could use ball valves leaving BK and at the end of CFC to get desired temp.

Just trying to work this out in my head and running if by you fellow brewers couldn't hurt. Thanks for the input in advance.

 

[richlong8020]

I have seen some other CFC with coper wrapped around the tube. Do you find that it is needed for better performance. My CFC will be 3/4" tube on the outside and 1/2" copper on the inside. I live in SoCal so we have hot water


~RDWHAHB~

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I have seen some other CFC with coper wrapped around the tube. Do you find that it is needed for better performance. My CFC will be 3/4" tube on the outside and 1/2" copper on the inside. I live in SoCal so we have hot water

This has been discussed earlier in this thread. Starting here, #3 to be exact, and some further conversation following. If you still have questions after reading that, let us know.

TB

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I want to build this thing now. I have a few questions and comments before I start though and it seems like there are a lot of smart people in this thread that can help.

1. I live in El Paso, TX and the water temp is very warm, around 70 in the summer, but maybe 50s in the winter. I plan on doing a ice bath to circulate the water for cooler temps. My current IC is 50' of 3/8" copper. I was going to reuse that, but what kind of length should I use? I understand that a pump might be needed for the longer lengths unless there is a greater height differential from BK to fermenter.

2. I am in the Army and would like this to work in anywhere I could be, so that should be a consideration into the plan as well. What is a good average length for all different water temps?

The average length is around 25 feet. If you're using a pump and an ice bath, 25 feet would suffice. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, longer doesn't always mean better. The temperature difference between wort and coolant converge with longer lengths, but at a diminishing rate. Without a pump, I wouldn't recommend much longer than 30 feet to avoid painfully slow flow rates.

3. I guess I could use ball valves leaving BK and at the end of CFC to get desired temp.

Just trying to work this out in my head and running if by you fellow brewers couldn't hurt. Thanks for the input in advance.

I would definitely recommend a ball valve at the BK output for all setups, especially with gravity fed CFCs. A valve at the CFC output might not be necessary if you have a BK valve, as that would be redundant and harder to keep sanitary.

TB

 

[richlong8020]

Couldn't we use PVC instead of the brass and epoxy the pipe. It would be incredibly cheaper. Right?!? The only metal would be the copper.


~RDWHAHB~