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I knew I kept all this old junk for some reason.
Could Someone Please Explain the Benefits of a Stir Plate?
- Thread starter RLinNH
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I knew I kept all this old junk for some reason.
I'm kind of confused about what you're saying, or whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me haha. That's pretty much exactly what I said, I think
.I use my stir plate to increase gas exchange, I usually use a blowoff tube because they do overflow a bit, but I don't lose more than 2-5% of my starters. I'm not sure what you mean by inject air though.
I just did a 4 stage starter with dregs built up from a single bottle of saison. Pretty minimal effort even without the stir plate. I now have 4 jars of the slurry harvested from the main fermentation and i'll just direct pitch those.
Peruvian802
Well-Known Member
I'm kind of confused about what you're saying, or whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me haha. That's pretty much exactly what I said, I think
I use my stir plate to increase gas exchange, I usually use a blowoff tube because they do overflow a bit, but I don't lose more than 2-5% of my starters. I'm not sure what you mean by inject air though.
I'll link Kai's experiment when i get home. Basically airlock <foil <uncovered<injected air when it comes to cell count. The foil allows some air transfer but not a lot. Once the starter consumes all available oxygen in the flask all the stirring in thr world does nothing. With large head space in the flask it's not a huge impact. When doing a 2L starter in a 2L flask the heaspace is small and the foil can't let enough through to keep up.
What i do is use an aquarium air pump (that many use for aeraring thr wort, as i did before upgrading to pure O2) and using a foam stopper (others use a bung) and tubimg i inject filtered air into the flask headspace above the starter.
I'll post a pic when i get home as well.
Not sure why the app won't let me edit, but he did uncovered as a data point, that's obviously not good for beer due to thr contamination risk.
gotcha, that makes sense. I'm surprised the vortex from a stir bar doesn't provide enough suction to draw fresh air in through foil or foam though.
Sorry if we are getting a bit off topic!
I grew this in about three days. I started with the dregs from one bottle of Bell's Oberon. Two steps (150 ml to 1.2 L) No way would that have worked in that amount of time without a stir plate.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1437757005.743316.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1437757005.743316.jpg
It would have worked in that amount of time without a stir plate. It would just require more volume to do so. How did it work out for you btw? I intentionally did 4 baby step starters to reduce stress (1.020, 1.030, 1.040x2). Results were very strong yeast cells. If you're having the same success with just 2 steps, I may do that next time.
Here's Kai's expirement: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2013/03/19/access-to-air-and-its-effect-on-yeast-growth-in-starters/
And this is my set up:
OP
OP
So, let;s say that Ron makes a starter on Weds. Evening for a Sunday morning batch. Your telling me that Ron is doing a bad thing by letting the starter sit for 4 days to do it's thing and settle out. Ron always decants his starters and pitches only the yeast. BTW, Ron is wicked Pissah Cool...
MagicMatt
Brewmathemagician
So, let;s say that Ron makes a starter on Weds. Evening for a Sunday morning batch. Your telling me that Ron is doing a bad thing by letting the starter sit for 4 days to do it's thing and settle out. Ron always decants his starters and pitches only the yeast. BTW, Ron is wicked Pissah Cool...
I would say that technically you couldn't call Ron's method 'wrong', but you could definitely say it's not optimal. While sitting at room temps for 4 days shouldn't necessarily hurt anything, there's no way that a starter will settle out enough in those conditions. And actually it's more like 2 days of settling out, as the yeast are still doing their thing for the first 24-48 hours.
Even when I cold crash my starters, some take 2-3 days to fully clear. If you're decanting while it's still cloudy (which I'd have to imagine you are with only a 2 day room temp rest), then you're losing a significant amount of yeast IMO. Now this isn't a deal breaker or anything, as you could just easily overbuild the starter to account for this. But a factor nonetheless.
A more accurate comparison would be a push mower vs having someone just come mow your lawn for you while you're at work.
I'd rather pay $50 for a stir plate and not have to do any maintenance on my starter until it is time to crash it.
Most folks don't wanna pay a lot though, so they'll cheap out and have some troubled loner mow the lawn who may or may not cause damage while you're away. Worse yet, burn the house down while you're sleeping.
I'd rather pay 30-50 cents (< 1 cent/beer) extra in DME than $50-100 for a commercial unit or risk an old jerry-rigged computer fan setting my house on fire. If I had to stand there swirling the starter by hand for 24 hours I would probably reconsider.
MagicMatt
Brewmathemagician
Most folks don't wanna pay a lot though, so they'll cheap out and have some troubled loner mow the lawn who may or may not cause damage while you're away. Worse yet, burn the house down while you're sleeping.
I'd rather pay 30-50 cents (< 1 cent/beer) extra in DME than $50-100 for a commercial unit or risk an old jerry-rigged computer fan setting my house on fire. If I had to stand there swirling the starter by hand for 24 hours I would probably reconsider.
I don't know where you get your DME, but it's likely closer to $1/starter extra. And if you've been following along, you will have seen several posts referencing the $12 "plug-and-play" computer fan on Amazon. It's not "jerry-rigged", nor $50-100. You plug it into the wall, as intended, and use the built-in knob to control the speed, as intended.
Add up the cost of that DME over the years. Let's say 15 brews a year for just 5 years, and that's already $75 extra you've spent.
Trust me, I get where you're coming from. I once debated the cost effectiveness of getting a R/O system just for brewing. Told poeple they were nuts and that it couldn't be justified. Until I did the math, and realized I'd be saving ~$5/brew on water (since I bought distilled). Doesn't take long for the cost to recoup itself in savings. No different with the stir plate IMO. The longer you wait to get one, the more money goes down the drain. Sure it may seem negligible, but money is money. Why waste it if you don't have to.
The benefits have been explained in some detail by many a reputable source. If you place any importance on the application of sound scientific data to your brewing practices this would be the primary reason to employ the use of a stir plate and appropriately sized starters.
If you see no validity to, or see flaws in the aforementioned scientific data or see no problems with the science but place no importance on applying sound multi-sourced data to your brewing practices; these would be reasons not to make use of one.
Bad reasons not to use a starter.
- They are expensive. This is a relative term. Is $20 expensive?
- The data supporting their use is equivocal or wrong. I would disagree with this based on every piece of data I have ever read pertaining to yeast growth rates in wort.
- "I don't use one and see no need to use one." The fact that any method is used (non-stirred) is not reason to use that method.
One of the many pieces of data flogging this dead horse of a debate topic
I feel I'd be wasting money on unnecessary equipment if I were to purchase a stir plate. I'm unaware of the $12 device you mention, but its a computer fan I'm assuming by your description and not an actual stir plate. If I'm right, this requires jerry rigging as its intended purpose is something other than running 24-48 hours with 2L of liquid perched on top. I know its probably fine, but i just dont want to leave something like that going unattended.
As for DME costs, here's a comparison using the Brewers Friend Calculator:
5.5 gal 1.050 wort, 1 fresh pack @ 100B cells for simplicity. We need to get to 200B cells.
- Stir plate requires 0.75 L with 75g DME.
- Shake method requires 1L with 100g DME.
Difference is 25g, or just under 2 oz. Staying with metric, I pay $13.00/1kg (2.2lb) Muntons DME at the LHBS = 33 cents extra DME. I pay less when purchasing online. I'm also not paying power to run the stir plate.
If you enjoy periodically shaking your starter, go for it.
I built my stir plate for the cost of a stir bar w/ spare parts. It may be ghetto, but it isn't any more dangerous than the several computers I leave running at my house or my keezer.
My time and effort is worth far more than $50 it would cost to buy a pre-built stir plate.
I built my stir plate for the cost of a stir bar w/ spare parts. It may be ghetto, but it isn't any more dangerous than the several computers I leave running at my house or my keezer.
My time and effort is worth far more than $50 it would cost to buy a pre-built stir plate.
I didn't build mine, I bought it from stirstarters.com. The debate can continue whether there is more growth with less wort, but the less time it takes to get the amount of cells makes them worth it to me.
I don't have to have a stir plate, but do I regret getting one? Absolutely not.
I don't have to have a stir plate, but do I regret getting one? Absolutely not.
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I built one which worked reasonably well for almost two years but the stirbar seemed to rattle all the time no matter how I adjusted the speed. Earlier this year I had some discretionary funds fall into my lap so I spent just over $80 (including shipping from Australia) for this bad boy from digitalhomebrew:
It is whisper quiet with excellent speed control plus SWMBO thinks its cute which is important since I run it in the kitchen. I built a small wood deck which surrounds it to safely set my 5L Erlynmeyer flask on although that is probably unnecessary. I had a 5L flask (containing 3L of starter) break when it fell off a running dryer when using my DIY stir plate so I'm paranoid about how I treat my flasks after that mess.
No I don't need a stir plate to brew just like I don't need a brew stand, PID gas value and pumps controller, fermentation freezer, keezer and all manner of other brewing things I've accumulated. However, I wanted all of them and they all serve a purpose including the stir plate. I long ago stopped thinking I was in this hobby to save money.
Don't all commercial breweries use either stir plates or shaker tables?
It is whisper quiet with excellent speed control plus SWMBO thinks its cute which is important since I run it in the kitchen. I built a small wood deck which surrounds it to safely set my 5L Erlynmeyer flask on although that is probably unnecessary. I had a 5L flask (containing 3L of starter) break when it fell off a running dryer when using my DIY stir plate so I'm paranoid about how I treat my flasks after that mess.
No I don't need a stir plate to brew just like I don't need a brew stand, PID gas value and pumps controller, fermentation freezer, keezer and all manner of other brewing things I've accumulated. However, I wanted all of them and they all serve a purpose including the stir plate. I long ago stopped thinking I was in this hobby to save money.
Don't all commercial breweries use either stir plates or shaker tables?
