could someone explain this water report?

[Kharnynb]

So my local waterprovider has some info, i did my best to translate from finnish.

TOC 2,0 mg C/l
Iron, (Fe) 26,5 µg/l
chlorine:Sodium hypochlorite, (Cl) 0,12 mg/l
PH 7,85
hardness 3,4*dH

What would this mean for my beers and what kind of treatments would be useful ?

 

[ajdelange]

I'm afraid we can't do much with that. The TOC refers to the Total Organic Carbon in the water. This is from things that shouldn't be there as we don't want any organics in our brewing water. Sources of organic carbon are plant material, pesticides, solvents, metabolized drug residues....

The iron of 26,5 ug/L is useful because it is less than the 100 ug/L which is considered to be the level above which iron is a problem for brewers.

The 0,12 mg/L hypochlorite number says your water is chlorinated (not chloraminated) at a low level. A brewer wants 0 chlorine or chloramine in his water. Heating water or allowing small volumes to stand over night is enough to remove low levels of chlorine like this.

pH is descriptive of the acid/base balance in the water. From it we can tell the relative proportions of dissolved CO2, bicarbonate ion and carbonate ion but a brewer for most applications does not care about this.

The hardness of 3,4 dH tells us there are 3,4*0,358 = 1,32 mEq of positive ionic charge distributed over calcium and magnesium ions. This is a pretty typical number and an important one but a brewer needs other data such as
1)Alkalinity
2)Individual calcium and magnesium ion concentrations
3)Chloride ion concentration
4)Sulfate ion concentration
5)Sodium ion concentration
6)Potassium ion concentration

Without those data one can only make very vague statements about the suitability of this water for brewing such as the observation that as the hardness is typical the alkalinity probably is too and that therefore one ought to be able to brew decent beer by following the guidance of the Primer here.

 

[Kharnynb]

pH 7,8
Alkalinity 0,68 mmol/l
TOC 2,3 mg/l
Kloori (Cl2), free? <0,050 mg/l
Kloori (Cl2), whole? 0,069 mg/l
Ammonium (NH4) <0,0060 mg/l
Fosfaatti (PO4), whole <0,0060 mg/l
hardness (Ca + Mg) 0,58 mmol/l
Alumiini (Al) 14 &#956;g/l
Rauta (Fe) 46 &#956;g/l

This is sadly as accurate as they measure here, so i guess that's all i can say about the water..

 

[RobertRGeorge]

Personally, I would run it through an activated carbon filter, and add about 4 grams of gray sea salt per 20 liters of water. It should be fine.

 

[rmyurick]

For definition of Free chlorine (Cl2) and Total chlorine (Cl2)--see this:

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_free_chlorine_and_total_chlorine

 

[ajdelange]

pH 7,8
Alkalinity 0,68 mmol/l

This is really the most important parameter especially when it is small (< 1).
The problem here is that the expression is in millimoles but there is no specification as to millimoles of what. If it is electrons then the alkalinity is 0,68 mEq/L which is nicely low. If it is mEq/L calcium carbonate or calcium oxide then the alkalinity is 2*0,68 = 1.36. As you gave a number in dH in the OP I suspect that is it. You can brew a lot of beers with alkalinity this small without any treatment though you can improve them with modest treatment. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460.

TOC 2,3 mg/l

As discussed in an earlier post.

Kloori (Cl2), free? <0,050 mg/l

This is the amount of chlorine in hypochlorite ion (a result of addition of chlorine to the water).

Kloori (Cl2), whole? 0,069 mg/l

This probably means the total chlorine plus the amount of chlorine found in chloramine. Very small numbers in either case and not something you probably have to worry about. Can you smell any chlorine? If not then don't worry but if you can see: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073

Ammonium (NH4) <0,0060 mg/l

Actually good for yeast but here the amount is so small as to be insignificant.

Fosfaatti (PO4), whole <0,0060 mg/l

You will seldom find appreciable amounts of this as calcium phosphate is extremely insoluble (your teeth and bones are made of it). This amount is insignificant.

hardness (Ca + Mg) 0,58 mmol/l

The second most important parameter for brewers. As anticipated in the earlier post this number is not far different from the alkalinity. In more usual terms it is 2*0,58 =1,16 mEq/L (comp 1,36) for the alkalinity. The difference is the sum of the equivalences of the choride and sulfate ions - here 0,26 mEq/L which is not much. This is pretty nominal water.

Alumiini (Al) 14 &#956;g/l

Left over from the chemicals added at the water treatment plant to precipitate silt, bacteria, sand.... Not enough to even consider.

Rauta (Fe) 46 &#956;g/l

As discussed in the previous post.

Summary: pretty typical stuff. Chlorine/chloramine low enough that you should be ok to use as is but if not use metabisulfite to lower chlorine/chlaoramine even further. Alkalinity is a little, but not atypically, high. Use with 1:1::tap:RO dilution and follow Primer recommendations or neutralize with acid.

 

[ajdelange]

Personally, I would run it through an activated carbon filter, and add about 4 grams of gray sea salt per 20 liters of water. It should be fine.

Why?

 

[Kharnynb]

Thanks for the explanations, I'll probally go the acid route as the water otherwise is really good flavor wise, no noticable chlorine smell.

 

[RobertRGeorge]

Why?

The filter will pull out the chlorine and iron, the sea salt will add roundness of flavor without making the water taste salty.

 

[ajdelange]

GAC will remove chlorine and chloramine if the flow rate is slow enough but as he hasn't any to speak of it probably isn't necessary for that. His iron is also well below the threshold at which brewers are concerned so it isn't needed for that but GAC doesn't remove iron anyway unless it is in the III oxidation state and the pH is highish in which case it will gum up the filter. Though moot here, carbon filtration is not used for iron removal. What carbon might be good for is that TOC of unknown nature.

It is true that augmented chloride can improve the body of the beer one usually derives it from calcium chloride as he doesn't have to accept additional sodium and calcium has beneficial effects on the mash which sodium does not.

 

[RobertRGeorge]

True all that. My reply was incorrect. I should have mentioned I use a ceramic filter to remove iron. I happen to like the flavor of sea salt in the beer. I don't put it in the mash, and the amount is so small there's no salty taste.

 

[ajdelange]

You like the taste of sea salt in beer but it doesn't taste salty. Obviously one is inclined to ask "If it doesn't taste salty what does it taste like?"

 

[RobertRGeorge]

You like the taste of sea salt in beer but it doesn't taste salty. Obviously one is inclined to ask "If it doesn't taste salty what does it taste like?"

To me it adds a "roundness" of taste. Fullness, stimulating the mouth. Not noticeably "salty" at all.

 

[ajdelange]

Roger. As the chloride from any salt gives that same effect I was wondering if there were some additional flavors from the sea salt 'impurities'.

 

[mabrungard]

Well, sodium doesn't really start tasting salty until its concentration approaches about 250 ppm. I'm assuming that Robert isn't adding that much salt. I typically add table salt to most of my brewing waters just to boost sodium and chloride levels a bit. Its always less than 40 ppm sodium, so there is no way I could really taste saltiness. I keep dreaming that it adds nuance, but have no proof. ;-)

 

[zippy84]

Would anyone have a go at interpreting the water report in my area? Tbh I know it's fairly hard, i.e. lot of limescale. It's fairly astringent, even more so when boiled and cooled, tastes metallic - tried running the tap for 2 minutes previous to tasting but still the same.

Would I need to do much to bring it up to scratch? I'm using bottled mineral water for my next batch. I find the astringent taste comes through in the beer last few batches. Basically, if boiled cooled water tastes like crap, then the same taste must be lurking within my beer!

http://www.louth.microworks.ie/

On the left tab 'Cooley' must be selected. Then rather than scrolling through each parameter individually you can select one, it brings you to a detailed graph page and you can hit a drop down menu and change parameters for the graph.

I'm still trying to get my head around the water science end of things, until then I would be interested to know how (un)suitable my local supply actually is!

 

[mabrungard]

If you detect a metallic taste, its probably not going to be the best base for brewing. That characteristic can come through in the beer. Interestingly, the graphs for iron and manganese show improvement and have relatively low concentrations that shouldn't be tasteable. But let your palate guide.

You may need to dilute with a better water to meet your taste expectations. There are some beer styles that can be improved with low mineralized water, but most can tolerate some hardness and mineralization as long as you are attending to the mash and wort pH.

 

[zippy84]

Well I guess it's a metallic taste, my palate probably wouldn't be as refined nor my descriptors as exacting as they should be. I've read that old copper plumbing can account for this sort of taste, can taint water and that running the water for sometime can improve this, in case the water has been lying in the pipes. The kitchen in the house is relatively new (extension) but the house itself and row of houses is about 60 yrs old.

I think I'll just start this next batch with bottled mineral water and see where I go from there. Thanks.