I've noticed a certain relationship between proponents of the subject of lodo brewing and a general excitement and intolerance of opposing views, again having my relevant but slightly irreverent suggestions of brewing in space or having fish in the mash to scrub O2 deleted as off topic, which they obviously weren't, notwithstanding the quality or otherwise of the "jokes". But on previous occasions when perusing that thread I did notice a certain intolerance of dissent. I wonder if traditional German brewing practice can be correlated with extreme opinions and intolerance?...
Correlation between dissolved oxygen and humour tolerance
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Andrew Hodgson
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I usually just dunk my head in the brewing water I am going to use and breathe the dissolved 02 to turn it into c02, two birds one stone.
I've found that my IPAs have brighter hop aroma when I play Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries on replay throughout fermentation. Just one man's opinion, but don't knock it till you try it.
That's a good idea, it might be faster than my usual method of putting a straw and blowing into my chilled wort to oxygenate it before pitching.
I only get infected brew 50% of the time so that's pretty good. I'm wondering if gargling undiluted star san would be more effective than listerine? I could improve my efficiency if I only have to dump 25% of my batches instead of half.
You're wrong.
Wagner will enhance the maltiness in a dopplebock or vienna lager.
Dump out your IPAs. Rebrew and play some Jimi Hendrix for them. Maybe Aerosmith or Phish.
Aerosmith is definitely going to oxidize your beer. There's a graph somewhere, google it.
You can't claim to make a NEIPA to style if you're not using New England music. Study the BJCP guidelines for fermentation music before you post nonsense like that here.
I have a similar ritual. If I want my bitterness to be more aggressive I play something like Metallica during fermentation, if I want it to be a little more smooth I will put on some Kenny G, and if I want it to be sweet I might play some R.Kelley.
NEIPA is so last year. SEIPA is the cool thing now. Wagner.
What would be New England music?
Andrew Hodgson
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Boston.
I find r Kelly gives a bit too much of a sexual criminal flavour to my beer personally.
Yeah kinda gives it a hint of urine too.....
More suited to an American light lager like Coors
Cat Stevens and R. Kelly make a pretty good combo.
I was going to say that but aren’t they Irish?
I kind of equate LODO enthusiasts with Jehova Withesses. It's like a religion, or is it a cult? I know, I know, no politics or religion, but I didn't even mention bleeding heart liberal snowflakes. Doesn't that count for something?
Yeah I missed that. Sorry.
What about telling you that you've been doing everything wrong, with a largely unreferenced pile of literature, while offering the Solutions with some products only you can provide and being unwilling to listen to opposing arguments reminds you of the Church of Jehovahs witnesses precisely???
I suppose Germans always did lead the way on intolerance in brewing, what with their rihngottsgebloombloom law, which I'm pretty sure I spelled rite... There was that other thing that happened a while back, so who knows, maybe it is a real thing.
I guess opinions are no less relevant than cult doctrines.
The firmness with which a man holds a belief is directly proportional to the effort and sacrifice he has made coming to or defending that belief. I think I have that with my insistence on hand kneading pizza dough... But then I've never handed my wife and kids over to a messianic cult leader or triple boiled my sparge water in a nitrogen purged environment, so I'm still pretty agnostic in general.
No... Humour is only used for English Ales.
American Ales are based on a good sense of humor.
And the Germans like lagers because they eschew fruity "humor" of all kinds. They are a practical people.
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I practice HIDO brewing.
It'll be the next big thing, substantiated by blogs and graphs made in excel.
It'll be the next big thing, substantiated by blogs and graphs made in excel.
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I think dissing LoDo supporters is a bit much. LoDo is a great neighborhood in Denver and has many good breweries. For example, https://greatdivide.com. I play oompah music when brewing an Oktoberfest beer .
arturo7
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My beers often inspire laughter.
Either with their presentation or consumption.
Either with their presentation or consumption.
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Hey, I have tried and adopted what has made sense to me from LoDo, cold side is easy, saves money and has a good outcome, carbonationwise.
I still have a sense of humor, whether it is good or not , can't say.
I still have a sense of humor, whether it is good or not , can't say.
Cold side for sure. Don't think that's too controversial.
Actually I was just being a bit sarkey as they deleted my perfectly reasonable if frivolous, on topic posts. I am planning to try a low O2 lager, but there's no way I'd put a bundle of cam tabs into a pale ale..
I am just slightly mistrustful of groups intolerant of dissent with unique products to sell.
Are there any lodo experiments not done by lodo affiliates that show a positive result? Can't find much myself.. perhaps because it's so dammned effective you instantly join the church and become an evangelist upon taking the triangle test..
If you're not getting positive results it's because you're not worthy.
ps
You're not worthy
Me?! How very dare you?! Oh, wait no you're perfectly correct.
yeahfairly
Well-Known Member
O2 is ruining my beer.... CO2 is going to fry the planet.... H2O is going to flood the costal cities.... CH4 from cows is an environmental disaster....... I see no possible way to survive..... Let's just consume massive amounts of ETOH and go out with a smile on our face.........
cloudybrewer
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't that make it taste like piss?
Edit: finished reading the thread. I really missed the boat.
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LODO is a fiddly process, and one has to have a certain amount of....dedication?......curiosity?....extra time on one's hands?.....to be willing to attempt it.
The biggest issue, IMO, with LODO is that there's really no way for us to try beer produced that way before deciding whether to pursue it. That's what I wanted--who wants to go through all the gyrations of LODO, maybe buying extra equipment, etc. etc. without knowing whether it's worth the effort?
Answer: Almost no one. Almost.
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I've been brewing using LODO techniques since about November 2017. For me, the jury is still out. Are the beers different? Absolutely. In what way? Malt flavors are distinctive. Will you be able to discern a difference and, if so, will you consider that difference to be worth all the fiddling?
I brewed a Pilsner using Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager yeast. 12# of Pilsen malt, which is a little high because of losses in the system, hoses, tun dead space, kettle trub, etc. Two ounces German Hallertau at 60 minutes. I brewed it because I thought if any beer would show the influence of LODO it would be a simple pilsner.
Well, it shows the influence all right. The flavor is almost a punch of maltiness, but not cloyingly so. Here's the oddity: I'm not a fan of the style, particularly. But I've had knowledgeable others try it, and they are...well...pretty complimentary of it. Here's just one:
Morrey's review of my LODO Pilsner.
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Now, will YOU think it's better? Or worth the effort? Therein lies the rub, as a statistics professor of mine was fond of saying.
I'm trained as a scientist, so I'm always looking for alternative explanations of the results. I attended an "off-flavor" workshop last week and while it was valuable in its own right, I came away interested in how different people perceive different flavors and aromas. Are you able to perceive oxidation in beer? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe someone highly sensitive to the "cardboard" flavor/aroma of oxidation would find LODO important, whereas you, by contrast, might not.
So palate is part of the alternative explanations of results. Sadly, that cannot be controlled.
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So why did I bother with all this? The whole oxygen thing makes sense. I've always tried to keep it away from my beer post-fermenation. Pretty good at that, I think. But the hot side? Only one way to test.
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That said, guess what makes it even more fiddly? As was noted to me by one of the LODO adherants, one must adjust one's recipes to account for this. I brew a Dark Lager that is, IMHO, excellent. I brewed it LODO. Guess what? The chocolate malt flavors popped--in fact, more than I wanted. Made it taste almost like a porter. Who in God's green earth has porter flavor in a lager? Answer: I did.
Recently brewed a California Common. California Lager Yeast, ale fermentation temps. Northern Brewer hops. In my recipe, there's supposed to be a bite of hoppiness followed by malty finish. Well, I don't have that hoppy bite. The malt? It's there. I wonder if the maltiness is masking the hop bite. I don't know whether I simply need to up the hop bill, or what.
So....in the end, you have to be fairly dedicated and interested in this to try it. There will be potential missteps along the way. Recipes will have to be adjusted. I'm thinking of tossing that CalCommon and rebrewing it, this time with a bigger hop bill. I hate the idea of just tossing $24 in ingredients and propane down the drain, but while it's drinkable, it's not exceptional. Unless I could find a way to post-fermentation add some hoppiness to it....
Add some hop tea? Or just dry hop the hell out of it.
I'm going to try the lodo thing, my issues are mainly adding sulphites, but could be good in pilsner. Never really lacked maltiness in other styles TBH. The whole thing I am acutely aware of though it's how much you taste what you expect. I have a pretty good pallet I think and am very good at identifying different flavours, but if I've been primed for something I'll notice it, even if it's not particularly there. I think everyone will. There's those famous experiments where they hoodwinked wine experts and gave them white wine with red colouring in and they to a man described it with descriptors of red wine such as cherry red berry plum etc and gave the white original completely different descriptions. Which isn't to say they didn't taste then but is to say that taste happens in the mind not in the mouth
