Cooling with Immersion vs Counterflow

[IvanTheTerribrew]

Hey guys,

So I built a 50' immersion chiller and I like it but I'm curious to know the difference that I would get with a 50 DIY counterflow chiller. One thing I like about the idea is not needing to stay with it and stirring like the immersion. Besides that what do think I'd see as a difference? Any quicker chill time?

And am I able to connect it to a chugger pump without worry about it being clogged or what?

Thanks


- ISM NRP

 

[Indytruks138]

CFC shouldn't clog, have to suck some big hops through it to clog. You will def see a faster chill time than with immersion.

 

[BaldApe]

I had a store-bought immersion chiller, which was inadequate when I went to 11 gallon batches. I got 50' of copper tube and wrapped it around my old 20 qt kettle and made a second chiller. I connected them both to a hose splitter, so the water goes through both coils. If I swirl the wort with the smaller one, I got pretty quick chilling.

Last weekend I used my Chugger pump setup for the first time. Now I recirculate the wort while chilling. The tube into the kettle enters at the bottom on one side, so it keeps the wort spinning around the chiller coils. I forgot to record the time it took to chill, but total chilling time must have been less than 15 minutes

The thing I like about immersion chilling is that you are cooling the whole wort. It you were making a Pilsner, for instance, and using a counterflow chiller, the wort that was not yet cooled is sitting there not quite boiling. Sounds like an invitation for DMS production without boiling off to me.

I was also able to chill the whole volume to 120 F and them add aroma hops for 20 minutes, then resume chilling. That is supposed to make better use of some of the delicate hop aromas that are lost near boiling temperatures. We'll see how that goes, I guess.

 

[fosaisu]

I've never used one but wouldn't you still want to stir the ice water with a counterflow chiller to optimize cooling? Otherwise, wouldn't you end up with a layer of somewhat warmer water immediately around the counterflow chiller insulating it (in the same way that a layer of somewhat cooler wort insulates the immersion chiller and slows cooling if you don't stir the wort)?

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I've never heard of anyone submerging a CFC, the whole point is that you run your water through the hose that encompasses the copper tubing inside...as long as that water inside the outer tubing is flowing you wont have those issues...

 

[Sbarnard80]

I use a simple immersion chiller and also don't like the stirring. At some point soon am going to hunt down some kind of little motor I can set on top of a false lid with a rod that goes into the wort and slowly mIxes it with a stirrer. That should shave off a bunch of time by itself.

 

[IvanTheTerribrew]

I don't really believe the short time it takes to pump wort with a chugger pump would contribute to any DMS. Plus, people do natural chilling all the time, and by that definition they should get a boatload of DMS.

And yes a CFC is not meant to be submerged. It's suppose to standalone and have the cold water in, hot water out, hot wort in, cold wort out connections. Maybe I'll just build it and see how I like it.


Another thing that may be heat about this is that right now my method with a IC is having a large plastic bucket filled with cold/ice water and using a pool pump to push it through the chiller while I stir. The first few runnings I pour into a pitcher and dump because if I recirculate it it will warm up the bucket too fast. Then when it cools down I just recirculate the water.

In the end this gives me a bucket full of cool or warm water while an CFC could help me end up with a bucket of hot water to use to clean equipment. Just my thoughts. If I build it I'll let you know. I did just buy two 50' hoses which were on sale


- ISM NRP

 

[CraigKing]

Wow, I still just put my kettle in my kitchen sink filled with ice water. It cools my 3gal batches down within 15-20 minutes and that's one of the more relaxing parts of the brewing process for me.

 

[Nagorg]

I use an immersion chiller and circulate the wort via chugger pump. The garden hose gets the wort down to ~100 degrees and then I hook up a submersible pond pump that's sitting in a bucket of ice with just enough water to get things moving. This lets me chill well below 65 degrees if needed for pitching.

I like the way counterflow and plate chillers work and think they are probably faster. However, I don't like the idea of circulating my wort through these things. I cant help but wonder if something might be lurking inside that got missed in the flushing process and that something would contaminate my beer. I drop my clean immersion chiller into the boiling wort with about 15 minutes of boil time. This basically ensures any "something" on my chiller is killed and the copper in the boil is good for yeast.

If I could afford a plate chiller that could be disassembled for thorough cleaning, I'd probably switch to that. For now, my immersion chiller does a fine job!

 

[Queequeg]

I have a counter flow plate chiller (40 plate), takes about 5-10mins with summer water temperatures to chill boiling wort to about 60-64 F. If I had a cold liqueur tank feeding the CFPC it would cool even quicker. Cleaning is easy providing you use a hop filter that can filter out pellet material. My CFPC is rated to take sediment up to 900um and my hop spider is 400um, so they is no risk of blocking and cleaning is slow but easy.

If I was to up grade I would probably go for a second plate chiller and connect them in series, the first feed by the mains water and the second by a HLT (gravity feed). I think I could then run the pump at full speed and empty 6 gallons in just over a minute.

 

[kombat]

I made the jump from immersion chiller to plate chiller and have been very happy with the results. My immersion chiller was a homemade copper-tubing job, but was only 25' long. Even with another 25' section submerged in a cooler of ice water acting as a pre-chiller, and with constant stirring, it would still take a good 20-25 minutes to cool 5 gallons of wort down to 65° F.

Since switching to the plate chiller, I can now get it down to 65° F in 7-8 minutes. In fact, in the winter I have to watch it carefully as it can easily accidentally over-chill it (I recirculate it back into the kettle) and can dip down into the 50's.

It's a little more work to set everything up, and of course you have to clean it well, but overall it speeds up my brew day and eliminates one of the less enjoyable chores (standing over a hot kettle stirring wort waiting for it to slowly drop to 65° F).

 

[Indytruks138]

I use an immersion chiller and circulate the wort via chugger pump. The garden hose gets the wort down to ~100 degrees and then I hook up a submersible pond pump that's sitting in a bucket of ice with just enough water to get things moving. This lets me chill well below 65 degrees if needed for pitching.

I like the way counterflow and plate chillers work and think they are probably faster. However, I don't like the idea of circulating my wort through these things. I cant help but wonder if something might be lurking inside that got missed in the flushing process and that something would contaminate my beer. I drop my clean immersion chiller into the boiling wort with about 15 minutes of boil time. This basically ensures any "something" on my chiller is killed and the copper in the boil is good for yeast.

If I could afford a plate chiller that could be disassembled for thorough cleaning, I'd probably switch to that. For now, my immersion chiller does a fine job!

You just have to start pumping 10 minutes before your boil is up, the boiling liquid goes through the pump and heat sanitizes anything the same way sitting your IC in the boil does.

At the end of the day run some pbw or even just hot water through the chiller as a back-flush, rinse, and either bake in the oven to dry out or just let it drain. Super easy. There is a reason commercial breweries use plate chillers, they are the most efficient at cooling.

 

[masonsjax]

An IC makes hop stands easy. You'd have to recirculate to do it with a CF or plate chiller. Not an option if you plan to gravity feed.

 

[eric19312]

An IC makes hop stands easy. You'd have to recirculate to do it with a CF or plate chiller. Not an option if you plan to gravity feed.

+1 to this

I am still working on getting my aroma and flavor hops right after switching from IC to CFC. Also IC is good way to keep hot and cold break out of the fermenters.

 

[Tutsbrew]

I was thinking about reducing the time my wort is exposed to the horrors lurking in the air by more quickly cooling it. Right now i use two immersion chillers with one in an ice bath for a pre-chill. I have a question about using plate chillers.

I'd like to use a submersible pump, a small 1/4 HP pump such as a Superior model 91025 or such, to recirculate ice water through a plate chiller. I'll have 1/2" tubing adapters for the wort in and wort out. My question:

Is it feasible to gravity feed wort through a plate chiller?

I'll pump the chilled water through the thing, and as such I'd like to simply gravity feed the wort by placing the chiller lower than the BK spigot and above the fermenter. I'd get the water recirculating, I'd have an in-line thermometer in place at the output of the chiller, then after checking for leaks and feeling it's a 'go', I'd open the ball valve and let the wort flow. I guess there are various methods, such as placing the plate chiller in the ice bath, etc, but the question I have is simply regarding the idea of allowing wort to use gravity to get through the chiller...

What say you to this brewing-tech-noob?

 

[Nagorg]

I'm gonna assume that plenty of folks will tell you that gravity feeding wort through a plate chiller will work just fine. And I'm also assuming that may be true in a lot of cases. However, my opinion is that you will have a greater degree of success by pumping your wort though the plate chiller instead; recirculating it in the kettle until you reach desired temp and then filling your fermentation vessel(s).

 

[eric19312]

I'm gonna assume that plenty of folks will tell you that gravity feeding wort through a plate chiller will work just fine. And I'm also assuming that may be true in a lot of cases. However, my opinion is that you will have a greater degree of success by pumping your wort though the plate chiller instead; recirculating it in the kettle until you reach desired temp and then filling your fermentation vessel(s).

I am doing it this way...recirc into the boil kettle. I measure the temp of the wort returning to the kettle and once it reaches pitch temp (the returning wort not the contents of the kettle) I start filling fermenters.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[kombat]

I am doing it this way...recirc into the boil kettle.

Same here. I just watch the thermometer on my boil kettle to see when the wort has chilled enough. With my plate chiller, it gets it down from boiling to 65° F in around 5 minutes. It's awesome watching it work, you can actually see the needle on the kettle's thermometer dial moving, like a second hand ticking backwards.

Once the wort reaches 65° F, I turn off the water, stop recirculating wort, and simply siphon the wort from the kettle into a fermenter with an autosiphon.

 

[maxxxx]

If u really wanna geek out, use a CFC connected to a makeshift glycol unit fashioned from a store bought AC unit and a ice chest.