Contaminated Yeast ?!

[BrewKnurd]

I never mind what you think about it !

The main thing is that they recommended me to let the current Batch sit in the Primary longer and I took this Advice .

Hector

No worries. I rarely worry about what I think about things either!

 

[hector]

No worries. I rarely worry about what I think about things either!

Hector

 

[hector]

As I eventually bought a new Cell Phone which has a Camera , I could take some Pictures from my current

Batch for those who couldn't believe in what I was saying .

To control the ambient Temperature , I use a Styrofoam Box , filled with cold Water and it's capped to protect the Beer from the Light .

Today is the 14th Day and my small Kid sits in the Primary .

The room Temp. is 74F and the Water Temp. inside the Box is 66F .

Hector

 

[agodfrey11]

14 days.... Isn't it time to dump it?

Just kidding... Give it another 7 -14 days, then bottle it. Give that another 10-21 days to carb up and then give it a try. If it has off tastes describe them to us and someone will be able to help.

 

[hector]

As I had sworn , I let my current Batch sit in the Primary for 3 Weeks and today was the 21st day .

I dissolved 0.18 Oz. ( 5.1 Grams ) of Dextrose in 200 mL of Water , boiled it for 15 Minutes and after cooling it , racked the

Beer onto it in a bottling Bucket .

Then I bottled the Beer and it gave me three Pet Bottles ( 330 mL each ) .

I'll keep them at 70F for another 3-Weeks-Period .

It didn't smell like Beer , although it was not so bad as my previous Batches , and it tasted a little sour .

Next Week , I'll brew another small Pale Ale Batch using fresh DME which I bought from another Factory to see and compare the Result .

Hector

 

[terrapinj]

happy to see you are persisting and ignoring the people telling you to give up and try something else other than homebrewing

as to the green/sour taste - it's very common for people to ask does it taste sour when people ask about infection - so I don't think it's out of line that he thinks his sour wort is infected

i agree that you should still try to bottle and carbonate (as you have done here) but hate to see people jumping on someone who insists that their beer is sour

it's very easy to ignore the thread and post somewhere else if you don't want to help the OP but really sad to see multiple people railing against this guy to give up trying and make cider

 

[brewit2it]

happy to see you are persisting and ignoring the people telling you to give up and try something else other than homebrewing

as to the green/sour taste - it's very common for people to ask does it taste sour when people ask about infection - so I don't think it's out of line that he thinks his sour wort is infected

i agree that you should still try to bottle and carbonate (as you have done here) but hate to see people jumping on someone who insists that their beer is sour

it's very easy to ignore the thread and post somewhere else if you don't want to help the OP but really sad to see multiple people railing against this guy to give up trying and make cider

One thing you should consider is beer is sour to some extent. It has a pH of around 4 which is acidic and will be detected as sour. Of course it should also be balanced with bitter and sweet, but if you don't taste any sour flavor you aren't trying hard enough.

It is a fact that almost all of the first time brewers who come on and say "I think I have an infection, my beer is sour" don't in fact have an infected beer, just one that is usually green, made from all extract (twangy), yeasty, and completely different than the commercial beer they are used to.

 

[terrapinj]

One thing you should consider is beer is sour to some extent. It has a pH of around 4 which is acidic and will be detected as sour. Of course it should also be balanced with bitter and sweet, but if you don't taste any sour flavor you aren't trying hard enough.

It is a fact that almost all of the first time brewers who come on and say "I think I have an infection, my beer is sour" don't in fact have an infected beer, just one that is usually green, made from all extract (twangy), yeasty, and completely different than the commercial beer they are used to.

agreed - but certainly doesn't warrant telling the OP to give up and try something else

 

[Gameface]

agreed - but certainly doesn't warrant telling the OP to give up and try something else

Your right, his attitude does.

 

[hector]

happy to see you are persisting and ignoring the people telling you to give up and try something else other than homebrewing

it's very easy to ignore the thread and post somewhere else if you don't want to help the OP but really sad to see multiple people railing against this guy to give up trying and make cider

I'm very very very HAPPY to have such Protection from a new friend in this Forum .

I'll do my Best to become a good Homebrewer .





Hector

 

[hector]

Your right, his attitude does.

I would not sit and let the others say anything they like about my Efforts , as I'm trying hard to become at least a good ( not the Best ) Homebrewer .

I don't live in the U.S. and my Situation is completely different .

As there are no Brewing Supply Shops here , I've always tried to make a Setting by using any simple Object that can be found at Home .

So , it's not so easy for me as for you all .

I always appreciate any good piece of Advice here .

And finally , I agreed to let the Batch sit longer in the Primary and DID so .

What sort of Attitude is that ?

A good or a bad one ?!

Hector

 

[niko]

I would not sit and let the others say anything they like about my Efforts , as I'm trying hard to become at least a good ( not the Best ) Homebrewer .

I don't live in the U.S. and my Situation is completely different .

As there are no Brewing Supply Shops here , I've always tried to make a Setting by using any simple Object that can be found at Home .

So , it's not so easy for me as for you all .

I always appreciate any good piece of Advice here .

And finally , I agreed to let the Batch sit longer in the Primary and DID so .

What sort of Attitude is that ?

A good or a bad one ?!

Hector

I think some people could be having a hard time understanding some of your English as well. Although very good, some words you are saying sound harsh and sound out of context. Anyway on the beer, just hang in there man and keep brewing... i bet that beer you are sitting on may turn out ok in the end.

 

[hector]

Anyway on the beer, just hang in there man and keep brewing... i bet that beer you are sitting on may turn out ok in the end.

I hope so !

Hector

 

[hector]

Something different has happened here !

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/just-sampled-my-first-batch-242230/

He even used the same Yeast strain I used .

How could it taste like a normal Beer after ONLY 3 days ?!!

My Beer didn't smell and taste so after 3 Weeks !

Has anyone any convincing Explanation for me here ?!

Hector

 

[BrewKnurd]

Something different has happened here !

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/just-sampled-my-first-batch-242230/

He even used the same Yeast strain I used .

How could it taste like a normal Beer after ONLY 3 days ?!!

My Beer didn't smell and taste so after 3 Weeks !

Has anyone any convincing Explanation for me here ?!

Hector

Keep in mind that just because he says it tastes like a "normal beer" doesn't mean that you would think it tastes like a "normal beer". Perhaps you just have more discerning tastes.

 

[hector]

Keep in mind that just because he says it tastes like a "normal beer" doesn't mean that you would think it tastes like a "normal beer". Perhaps you just have more discerning tastes.

Sorry , but it's not convincing !

Hector

 

[BrewKnurd]

Sorry , but it's not convincing !

Hector

Hector - you were asking about why people thought you had a bad attitude. Comments like this are a big part of the reason. I'm not saying you intended it this way, but the way you come across when you say something like this is "you're answer is wrong and has not helped me at all." This does not tend to make people want to keep trying to help you.

Just trying to be helpful.

 

[hector]

Hector - you were asking about why people thought you had a bad attitude. Comments like this are a big part of the reason. I'm not saying you intended it this way, but the way you come across when you say something like this is "you're answer is wrong and has not helped me at all." This does not tend to make people want to keep trying to help you.

Just trying to be helpful.

It's all misunderstanding , believe me !

I've never meant so as you and others are thinking .

I've always told my "Opinion" . That's all .

For example , as Someone recommended me to use the whole Yeast Pack for my 1-Liter-Batch , I said then that it is "Over-pitching" and

I've heard that it can be harmful to the Beer . ( Telling my Opinion )

Or another Guy asked if there is any Issue with the Light and I said that my Batch is sitting in a Box which is capped and therefore there is no

Issue with the Light . And so on ...

And finally , I said that your answer didn't convince me .

I have NOTHING against you , believe me !

I always appreciate your and others' helpful Hints .

Hector

 

[hector]

Today ( 3 Weeks after bottling ) I opened the first chilled Bottle .

It was very clear and of course having chill haze .

I was satisfied with the color and the carbonation level .

BUT , it smelled and tasted very SOUR !!!

No similarity to any light Beer !

I've heard that contaminated Beer is always cloudy .

So , can the sourness of my Beer have any other Cause , as it is very clear at room Temperature .

I have yet 2 more Bottles kept at 70F and will check them in the following days .

Hector

 

[Gameface]

I would say that if it's sour but not completely undrinkable then the sourness is just an "off" flavor you've produced, or just the natural result of the ingredients and brewing technique you used. Consider that sour can be a very relative term when describing beer, and while it may be sour compared to the type of beer you were aiming for, it might taste perfectly fine or even good to someone else.

 

[Gameface]

I would not sit and let the others say anything they like about my Efforts , as I'm trying hard to become at least a good ( not the Best ) Homebrewer .

I don't live in the U.S. and my Situation is completely different .

As there are no Brewing Supply Shops here , I've always tried to make a Setting by using any simple Object that can be found at Home .

So , it's not so easy for me as for you all .

I always appreciate any good piece of Advice here .

And finally , I agreed to let the Batch sit longer in the Primary and DID so .

What sort of Attitude is that ?

A good or a bad one ?!

Hector

Okay, I'm sorry for my comment. It was uncalled for.

Good luck man!

 

[agodfrey11]

Today ( 3 Weeks after bottling ) I opened the first chilled Bottle .

It was very clear and of course having chill haze .

I was satisfied with the color and the carbonation level .

BUT , it smelled and tasted very SOUR !!!

No similarity to any light Beer !

I've heard that contaminated Beer is always cloudy .

So , can the sourness of my Beer have any other Cause , as it is very clear at room Temperature .

I have yet 2 more Bottles kept at 70F and will check them in the following days .

Hector

After this post I don't know how to respond. Home-brewed ale will not taste like a light beer. Also, how can it be very clear but with chill haze? I think the beers may be fine, but you may not like home-brewed ales. Not sure what else to tell you.

 

[hector]

I would say that if it's sour but not completely undrinkable then the sourness is just an "off" flavor you've produced

Dear Gameface ,

It's completely undrinkable !

I would say , it's just a Sourness Bomb in the Mouth .

Let me explain it by a simple Example :

Imagine a Scale of Sourness between 0 and 100 .

By the day of bottling ( 3 Weeks ago ) it was 20 and yesterday as I opened the first Bottle , it was 90 !

It has 0% similarity to any Beer .

No Malty flavor and aroma !

Only Sourness in the Mouth !

Hector

 

[hector]

After this post I don't know how to respond. Home-brewed ale will not taste like a light beer. Also, how can it be very clear but with chill haze?

By "light Beer" I meant a very simple Beer made of just DME , Water and Yeast .

I used no Hops and no specialty Malts .

I took a look at the Bottle using a Desk Lamp before putting it in the Refrigerator and did the same after chilling to compare the clarity .

It is very clear at room Temp .

Hector

 

[Revvy]

I used no Hops ...

Hops act as a preservative to prevent souring in beer. If you didn't use ANY it's not surprising your beer is infected. Even the lightest of light beers, american light lagers, contain some hops in it, just usually below the level of detection. But you need hops in beer, unless you are intentionally making a gruit, which is a sour beer.

I joined this conversation late, but if you really are not hopping your beers and are not using a pre-hopped liquid extract, then that's why your beers are souring, especially if you live in a warm climate.

Gruits tend to be brewed and consumed within a few days, they tend to be cloudy and slightly sour even from the beginning and get worse. Without the antiseptic/antibacterial qualities of the hops, even the beer above a yeast starter made for liquid yeast on a hot day will sour within a few hours. Some folks even add a hop pellet or two to their starters to prevent this. So imagine what is happening to your beer?

 

[hector]

Hops act as a preservative to prevent souring in beer. If you didn't use ANY it's not surprising your beer is infected. Even the lightest of light beers, american light lagers, contain some hops in it, just usually below the level of detection. But you need hops in beer, unless you are intentionally making a gruit, which is a sour beer.

Dear Revvy ,

Very nice to have your Comments here !

I was always looking forward to hearing from you on this Thread .

Now I think that I should give you some Infos .

Before this Batch , I made another Pale Ale Batch and I used light DME , bittering Hops , Water and Yeast .

After 17 days in the Primary , it was exactly as sour as my current Batch and I dumped it because

I thought that it's not worth bottling a contaminated Beer . Although , I had cleaned and sanitized everything carefully .

Then I decided to brew a new Batch and because Hops are too expensive here , I decided not to use them by my current

Batch because I was not sure if this Batch would come out fine .

I racked the boiled Wort after cooling from the Pot into the Jug using a clean and sanitized Vinyl Tube .

I boiled also the bottled spring Water which was used to rehydrate the dry Yeast .

Besides , the Hop Pellets which I use are bittering Hops and as far as I know , the antibacterial effect which

you mentioned is related to the aroma Hops which are usually added at the end of the Boil .

My another Problem is that I do not know the Grade of the Malt Extract I use for brewing . I've heard by one Podcast that there are two Grades of

Malt Extract produced industrially , "Food-Grade" and "Brewing-Grade" .

An Expert recommended on that Podcast to always use "Brewing-Grade" Extracts for brewing .

I'm trying to find some good quality Extract for my next Batch .

Hector

 

[Revvy]

Besides , the Hop Pellets which I use are bittering Hops and as far as I know , the antibacterial effect which

you mentioned is related to the aroma Hops which are usually added at the end of the Boil .

This is incorrect information (which in reading some of your posts you seem to be a victim of. for a lot of things.)

It is the isomerized alpha acids in the bittering addition from which the preservative action stems from. In fact if you look at many beers such as pilsners and light lagers, they only have a bittering addition, there is no aroma or flavor stemming from the hops. So if what you believed was the case, then there would be no unsoured pilsners, vienna lagers, or just about any German Beer, since many of them only have a single bittering hop adidition.

As to the dfferent grade of extract, indeed there are too grades, the brewing grade is more pure in flavor than the baker's grade, BUT they are interchangable, just as you can bake with brewer's lme, you can make drinkable beer with the cooking grade extract. In fact the baker's grade LME you are getting is probably on par with the brewer's grade we got prior to legalization of homebrewing in 1978.

So that's not a source of your problem, the difference would be let's say if we made an all grain beer with grain we bought at the homebrew shop that may have been made and malted from last year's crop, and us growing our own barley, plucking it immediately , then malting it and making beer with it. Obviously the latter would be a tad better than the former, but they'd both work.

I think there's several issues at play here. I believe that you been given some bad fundamental information (like the hop info) and it's causing some problems. But I do wonder if initially the beer you dumped wasn't infected but just green, but now that you have stopped using hops, you ARE making infected beer. Because all the sanitation in the world is NOT going to prevent un hopped beer from souring after a few days. A gruit is still a gruit whether or not you sanitized or not. The difference is going to be what type of infection grows in there.

I don't even no where to begin to get to the bottom of your issues, because there's so many variables at play here, from knowledge issues to ingredient issues to equipment issues to language issues.

I think before you brew again (whether it's with food grade extract or with beer extract") you need to post your recipe first and a step by step list of your brewing process, and let us see it, and then let us tweak it before you brew, and MAYBE we can get you step by steps past whatever it is you are doing to cause your beer to not survive.

There simply may be some 1 fundamental thing you are going incorrectly.

One thing though, when you use a vinyl tube to rack your wort, how are you starting the siphon? Also what is the % titratable Ioding in the providone you are using and what is your dillution ratio?

 

[hector]

I think before you brew again (whether it's with food grade extract or with beer extract") you need to post your recipe first and a step by step list of your brewing process, and let us see it, and then let us tweak it before you brew, and MAYBE we can get you step by steps past whatever it is you are doing to cause your beer to not survive.

There simply may be some 1 fundamental thing you are going incorrectly.

One thing though, when you use a vinyl tube to rack your wort, how are you starting the siphon? Also what is the % titratable Ioding in the providone you are using and what is your dillution ratio?

Dear Revvy ,

If only you could have noticed my Thread earlier !!!

I explained several times my Batch Situation in details in this Thread , But I always

received the same Answer from other Members : "Your Beer is not infected . Give it more Time."

Anyway , Please read the Post #65 on Page 7 of this Thread . I described in that Post what I did on the brewing day in details .

To rack the Wort with the vinyl Tube , I do not use my Mouth directly on the Tube . I use a small Piece of another

Tube which is cleaned and sanitized and has a smaller Diameter and insert it into the main Tube and suck on that , then as the

Wort runs half the way through the main Tube , I stop it by folding the Tube tightly and pull out the smaller Tube and then I let the

Wort be racked completely into the Jug .

As I said before in this Thread , I use "Iodophor" for sanitizing . I buy each time "Povidone Iodine 10%" from Drugstore and

dilute it with distilled Water ( 1.25 mL per Liter of Water ) .

Hector

 

[hector]

As Revvy suggested me to describe my Plan for the next Batch in details , I'm writing this Post , so that he and others

would be able to check my typical brewing day .

Sorry if it is a long Post !

Like any other brewer , I start my brewing day with cleaning . I wash two plastic water Jugs and their Caps and two vinyl Hoses using dish wash detergent and warm water . Then I leave the Jugs capped and hang the Hoses in the Bathroom .

Then I make my sanitizing Solution using "Povidone Iodine 10%" . I pour 2 Liters of distilled Water into a Bucket which is washed and cleaned and add 2.5 mL of Povidone Iodine to it and mix it using a clean glass Rod to have a homogeneous Solution .

I sanitize the Hoses by racking this Solution from the Bucket into another clean Bucket . To rack , I do not use my Mouth directly on the Hose . I use a small Piece of another Hose which is cleaned and sanitized and has a smaller Diameter and insert it into the main Hose and suck on that , then as the
Solution runs half the way through the main Hose , I stop it by folding the Hose tightly and pull out the smaller one and then I let the Solution be racked completely . Then I leave the Hose in the Solution in the Bucket and add my other Objects such as Beaker , Syringe and Airlock which are cleaned to this Bucket , so that they will be sanitized by the time of using , too .

Additionally , I make a 1-Liter-Sanitizing-Solution and pour half of it into a spray Bottle and sanitize the water Jugs with the rest of it . Then I leave the Jugs again capped in the Bathroom .

I'm going to have a 1-Liter-Wort with the O.G. of 1.050 , therefore I need 142.9 grams of DME , since my DME's yield is 42 points . I pour 1.5 Liters of distilled water in a clean Pot and bring it to boil , then remove it from the Stove and add 47 grams ( 30% ) of DME to it and mix it well and then put the Pot again on the Stove and bring it to boil . As it starts boiling , I add bittering Hop Pellets which are in an emptied Tee Bag . After 45 minutes , I remove the Pot from the Stove and add the remaining DME and mix it well and boil it for 15 minutes .

Simultaneously , I boil 1 liter of distilled water in another clean Pot for 15 minutes , just in case I need some to top up the Wort .

Then I put those Pots ( Lids on ) in an Ice-Water Bath to cool the Wort and Water . As they are cooling , I boil 0.5 liter of bottled spring water for 15 minutes which will be used to rehydrate the Dry Yeast .

At this point , I wear latex Gloves and wash them with Soap and Water as if I'm washing my Hands and then spray Iodophor on them .

I rack the cooled Wort using the sanitized vinyl Hose into one of the Jugs ( the bigger one which has 5 liters Volume ) , top it up if it's necessary , cap the Jug and aerate the Wort by splashing it . Then I pour the aerated Wort through a clean and sanitized glass Funnel into the other sanitized Jug which has 1.5 liters Volume and cap it .

Now , I have 1 liter Wort with the O.G. of 1.050 in a 1.5 liter water Jug . I check the Wort's Temperature using a clean and sanitized Thermometer .

I pour 10 mL of bottled spring water which was boiled and cooled to 24C into one small Beaker by using a Syringe , put the Beaker on a Scale and pour the Dry Yeast from the Sachet onto the water till the Scale reads 1.0 gram . The Yeast sachet is used for previous Batches and each time it is closed tightly and kept in the Refrigerator . I cover the Beaker with a clean and sanitized sheet of Aluminium foil and let it sit for 20 minutes then by using a clean and sanitized Thermometer , I check its Temperature and do a gentle mixing .

If its Temp. is near the Wort's Temperature , I add it to the Wort and put the clean and sanitized Airlock which is filled with Iodophor on .

Then I put the Jug in a water Bath to control the ambient Temperature .

So , any Comments ?!

Hector

 

[eanmcnulty]

Hector has asked me for my thoughts on this thread.

I brew 2.5g batches.
I use 11.5 oz. US-05 packets. I only use half of the packet.
I sanitize my scissors and eyeball half the pack and pour it into a sanitized beaker of cooled, boiled water to rehydrate. I do not sanitize the packet. Then I fold the top a couple of times, staple it, and put it into a Ziplock bag in the fridge. I haven't had any problems that I can detect. My beer tastes pretty good to me.
I am not saying what I do is the correct way to do it.

Here are some quotes, and my ideas:
“After measuring 2 grams of the yeast. I would keep it closed in the Refrigerator.” - hector

Basically I do this, although I use half of the yeast for each batch. I eyeball the amount. Very non-scientific.


“The Yeast which I use is Safale S-04 Ale Dry Yeast." - hector

I believe S-04 is the English ale yeast, and I find English beer to be a little on the sour side. I have never used this yeast.


“You really can't save opened dry yeast more than a week, maybe two.” - Yooper
“[Fermentis says to] use the remaining yeast within seven days.” - badhabit

I have let my opened, folded, and stapled yeast packet sit in the fridge (In the cheese drawer of all places!) for a month before using the second half. Not saying it is the right thing to do, but I have not had any problems, yet.


I have never had an infected beer that I know of, and I am not sure I would know why a beer tasted bad if I did.
I do not use LME or DME for anything. Not since batch #9. I am an all-grain brewer.
So, I really have no authority or idea why your beer tastes sour.

All I can tell you is what I do. I can't say whether it is a good practice or not. Probably not, but two days ago, I just brewed my 51st batch in two years, and I have never had a problem.

Good luck finding better results!

 

[brewit2it]

Hector has asked me for my thoughts on this thread.

I brew 2.5g batches.
I use 11.5 oz. US-05 packets. I only use half of the packet.
I sanitize my scissors and eyeball half the pack and pour it into a sanitized beaker of cooled, boiled water to rehydrate. I do not sanitize the packet. Then I fold the top a couple of times, staple it, and put it into a Ziplock bag in the fridge. I haven't had any problems that I can detect. My beer tastes pretty good to me.
I am not saying what I do is the correct way to do it.

Here are some quotes, and my ideas:
“After measuring 2 grams of the yeast. I would keep it closed in the Refrigerator.” - hector

Basically I do this, although I use half of the yeast for each batch. I eyeball the amount. Very non-scientific.


“The Yeast which I use is Safale S-04 Ale Dry Yeast." - hector

I believe S-04 is the English ale yeast, and I find English beer to be a little on the sour side. I have never used this yeast.


“You really can't save opened dry yeast more than a week, maybe two.” - Yooper
“[Fermentis says to] use the remaining yeast within seven days.” - badhabit

I have let my opened, folded, and stapled yeast packet sit in the fridge (In the cheese drawer of all places!) for a month before using the second half. Not saying it is the right thing to do, but I have not had any problems, yet.


I have never had an infected beer that I know of, and I am not sure I would know why a beer tasted bad if I did.
I do not use LME or DME for anything. Not since batch #9. I am an all-grain brewer.
So, I really have no authority or idea why your beer tastes sour.

All I can tell you is what I do. I can't say whether it is a good practice or not. Probably not, but two days ago, I just brewed my 51st batch in two years, and I have never had a problem.

Good luck finding better results!

Wow, AG is a lot of work for 2.5 gallon batches, more power to you.

 

[eanmcnulty]

Wow, AG is a lot of work for 2.5 gallon batches, more power to you.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I was at a point when I wanted to go all-grain, but I didn't want to spend the cash on a bigger pot. So, I decided to brew half-batches. It probably would have been cheaper in the long run, because I now have six 3g Better Bottles, a 5g cooler MLT, a new 5G cooler HLT, and a 20' CFC!
When I first started brewing AG I was doing a no-sparge process, and I was able to brew in 3 hours 15 minutes roughly. That was great. I could brew after work and be done by 8:00PM. Then I started brewing bigger and bigger beers and I had to start sparging. The 5g cooler wasn't big enough. (Any of you who told me I should have bought a 10g cooler, I will give you the I-told-you-so.)
Well, now I'm invested in the 3g batches. It takes me about 4 hours now, and I can still brew after work, which is nice. I brew all the time now. 10 batches in the past moth and a half. I brewed 30 batches last year, and I hope to brew 40 this year. It's nice because I always have new and different beer. It doesn't cost me and arm and a leg, either.
I know most people can't do it, because of time constraints. I'm a teacher. In the summer I can golf in the morning and brew in the afternoon..., everyday if I want! Cheers!

Oh yeah. Back to the sour beer, you guys...

 

[hector]

Thanks !

But , I was waiting to hear Comments about what I wrote in the Post #149 !

Hector

 

[eanmcnulty]

Thanks !

But , I was waiting to hear Comments about what I wrote in the Post #149 !

Hector

Okay.
It looks like you process is sound. I don't know why your beer tastes sour. I'm sorry I can not help you.

 

[Revvy]

Okay.
It looks like you process is sound. I don't know why your beer tastes sour. I'm sorry I can not help you.

Unfortunately I agree with Ean, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with what you're doing, if anything you're more anal that most of us about sanitization- Glass rods, latex gloves....I really don't use any of that stuff, nor do I use soap and water to clean. I tend to hot water rinse a lot of stuff, and if I do use any cleansers it's oxyclean soaks with copious amounts of rinsing.

I'm stumped as well. Maybe you are just experiencing green beer as sour and being pre-mature in your judgement. You don't talk about your bottling process though...what's that? Have any of these ended up in bottles and had a change to condition?

Also going back to the dry yeast storage, I am also like Ean, I just re-seal the packets on dry when using them in small batches (sometimes just rolling up the packet tightly and sealing it with a rubber band) and I just toss it in my fridge. When I reuse it I spray it with starsan. But I've never had any issues with using it even after several months.

Also any dry yeast that one doesn't want to use, just store it and dump it in the boil on your next batch- it's a great yeast food, since yeast are cannibals. They will go for it first and get all uppity for eating all the sugars in your wort. So it won't go to waste.

Now as to the comment about "AG being a lot of work for small batches" I do batches all the way from 1 gallon to 25 gallons, and do a LOT of 2.5 gallon ag batches mostly in the winter, on my stove but I also do it for doing a lot of test batches, or batches where I know I don't want 5 gallons of beer (mostly experimental batches.) Just because it may not be everyone's cup of tea, a LOT OF US DO SMALL BATCH BREWING.

And to me, it's a hobby, I ENJOY my brewing sessions, regardless of the size of the batch. It's never "work" for me. If any of it were work I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it......

 

[hector]

Unfortunately I agree with Ean, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with what you're doing, if anything you're more anal that most of us about sanitization- Glass rods, latex gloves....I really don't use any of that stuff, nor do I use soap and water to clean. I tend to hot water rinse a lot of stuff, and if I do use any cleansers it's oxyclean soaks with copious amounts of rinsing.

I'm stumped as well. Maybe you are just experiencing green beer as sour and being pre-mature in your judgement. You don't talk about your bottling process though...what's that? Have any of these ended up in bottles and had a change to condition?

I was sure my brewing Process is nearly perfect ( just similar to a Surgery ) !

So why does the Beer come out always too SOUR ?!!

After 3 Weeks in the Primary and then 3 Weeks at 70F in the Bottle , I would not call it a green Beer , as it had a medium O.G. and enough time .

As I opened the first Bottle , my Mother who was sitting near me said : " Oh , what a sour smell ! It's just Vinegar ! "

I already described my bottling day in the Post #125 of this Thread .

I dissolved 0.18 Oz. ( 5.1 Grams ) of Dextrose in 200 mL of Water , boiled it

for 15 Minutes and after cooling it , racked the Beer onto it in a bottling Bucket .

Then I bottled the Beer and it gave me three Pet Bottles ( 330 mL each ) .

Imagine yourself a Sourness Scale between 0 and 100 . On the bottling day it was 20 , but 3 Weeks later as I opened the first Bottle , it was 90 !

There were no detectable Malty Aroma !

Only Sourness in the Mouth !

Even a green Beer can have Malty aroma to some degrees , I suppose .

I'm going to brew another small Batch using some new DME which I bought recently to see if the Problem is caused by the quality of the Extract .

Hector

 

[Revvy]

quality of the Extract .

Hector

I already posted it once, the "quality" of your extract has nothing to do with sour beer!!! There's no anti microbial function is "brewer's" grade extract that's not in "baker's grade" extract- As I stated in post 147;

As to the dfferent grade of extract, indeed there are two grades, the brewing grade is more pure in flavor than the baker's grade, BUT they are interchangable, just as you can bake with brewer's lme, you can make drinkable beer with the cooking grade extract. In fact the baker's grade LME you are getting is probably on par with the brewer's grade we got prior to legalization of homebrewing in 1978.

So that's not a source of your problem, the difference would be let's say if we made an all grain beer with grain we bought at the homebrew shop that may have been made and malted from last year's crop, and us growing our own barley, plucking it immediately , then malting it and making beer with it. Obviously the latter would be a tad better than the former, but they'd both work.

But this has nothing to do with souring....something is happening post boil to your wort which is causing it. But your grade of extract has nothing to do with it.

 

[janivar123]

Still talking about the unhopped batch or did you have a chanse to bottle something else?

 

[Revvy]

The thing to remember about "food grade malt extract" is that it is still produced by the malters that is making the ones for beer. In fact the ONLY REASON folks are using it for food these days is that the breweries were looking for a way to stay open during prohibition. Someone realized that the LME that was being made for brewing was tasty and would make a good thing to use in baking...so some were able to stay open during prohibition. They even produced cookbooks (although they tended to still put hops in SOME of the extract. ) and if you asked really nice about making beer with it, you would usually get the baking cookbook in the mail....but a few weeks later you would get mimeographed sheets in a plain brown envelope that described how to make beer with it.....

For all intents and purposes it IS the same product.

HISTORY OF PREMIER MALT PRODUCTS

Premier Malt Products was born in the early 1920’s as a response to the beginning of a period of prohibition across America. During the years of prohibition in the early 20th century the Pabst Brewing Company as well as other family breweries were closed. It was during this time that the Perlstein brothers bought controlling interest in the Pabst Brewing plants and changed the name to Premier Malt Products, Inc. The new company began to produce a line of canned malts both with and without hops to sell into the grocery trade across America under the trade name of Blue Ribbon Malt.

While disguised as malt for the housewife to bake cakes and cookies the unwritten and most practiced use for Blue Ribbon Malt was the manufacture of beer by people in their homes. In 1933 as the era of prohibition came to an end the Pabst family reacquired the breweries with their family name and again began to brew the beer that made Pabst Blue Ribbon one of the most popular beers in America. The demand for the “Blue Ribbon” home brew products as well as the popularity of malt in commercial baking and cereal manufacturing continued, so the Pabst family continued the manufacturing of these products within their breweries at Milwaukee and later in Peoria, Illinois until 1980 when they closed their Peoria plant.

In 1981 the business Premier Malt Products, Inc. was purchased by a group of private investors and still today manufactures, sells and distributes the same high quality malt extracts that were used in home brewing kits sold during prohibition. These all-natural malt extracts and syrups are used today for manufacturing of healthy foods such as cereals, breads, baked goods and a multitude of fine products for human and animal consumption. In addition Premier sells a host of other organic sweeteners made from rice, cane sugars and other natural ingredients. Premier has affiliated production and warehousing facilities in the United States, Canada and Europe that enable it to meet the requirements of it’s vast customer base and deliver it’s products around the globe.

 

[hector]

I already posted it once, the "quality" of your extract has nothing to do with sour beer!!!

The DME I used for my Batch is made in India .

Yesterday I met someone who imports Malt Extract into my Country . He said that some Brewing Companies in my

Country used such Extract and the Result was not satisfying at all .

He said also that he has never seen any good quality Extract which is made in India . He recommended me to use LME and gave me a Sample .

It is a " Vegetal Extract Concentrate " as it's written on a sheet of paper which is given to me with the Sample .

It's written also that it is free from off flavors .

It is manufactured by " PureMalt Products Ltd. " in Scotland .

What do you think Revvy ?

Is it a good Idea to brew with it ?!

If yes , then should I use it alone or is it better to use some DME , too ?!

Hector