Consistently not getting the FG I want

[dunnright00]

So, I've never been able to get my beer to ferment out as much as desired.

For example, my Stout that I'm about to bottle was OG 1.061 and FG 1.026.
My brown ale, 1.044 and then 1.019
My Barleywine, 1.080 and then 1.013, I guess that wasn't too bad but I was expecting more.

Do these numbers look normal?

My first thoughts were temperature, so I now have a fridge with a temp controller.
Then I thought making a starter, and I've had good healthy starters and still nothing.

The only thing I can think is maybe not enough oxygen?
I guess I could shake it up more, but I'm thinking about getting an aeration system.

Thoughts?

 

[dcp27]

are these all grain? if so, what has been your mashing technique?

 

[dunnright00]

Only the barley wine was AG.
The others were either Mini-mash or Extract w/grains.

The mash was done with the BIAB techique.

 

[dunnright00]

I should re-name this thread to
"Consistently not getting answers in my threads"

 

[Rudeboy]

I should re-name this thread to
"Consistently not getting answers in my threads"

Ok, Ok it was just yesterday.

The Barleywine looks normal 71% apparant attenuation more or less average for a BW.

The other look problematic. The Brown Ale at 56% is very suspect.

But what yeast. What temp mashing. (I've used Windsor Dry Yeast and it always craps out at 1.020. SG 1.060 FG of 1.020. SG of 1.033 FG of 1.020. It's like some magical plateau with me)

Standard answers.

Mash lower temp.
Aerate more.
Calibrate hydrometer and themometer.
Since BW was AG and looks good might have had crappy Extract with first two.

Rudeboy

 

[dcp27]

any chance these extracts were all added early or old? or that any of these were windsor yeast?

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Making a starter is all well and good but are you calculating your pitching rates?

MrMalty Pitching Rate Calculator

A few things you can try is adding yeast nutrient. Adding a droplet of olive oil to your yeast about 4 hours prior to pitching (olive oil already contains the compounds that the yeast would normally use oxygen to synthesize). And of course checking your pitching rates.

 

[GodsStepBrother]

The same thing happened to me for 2 batches and I skimped out on the aerating on both of those, I also didn't use any yeast nutrient. Since then, I have gotten a wine de - gasser and hit the beer hard on the top with it, creating bubbles and pushing them down into the beer with the de - gasser. It works awesome, and gives me plenty of yeast. I also started adding yeast nutrient just to be sure.

But I am sure it was the aeration that I was not getting down right. Since then I have not had any issues.

One question? Are you doing full boil on your extract batches? (I ask because especially with partial boil, reintroducing water to get up to volume would seriously reduce the risk of it being an aeration problem).

 

[swheatfield]

I believe there were other factors other than the strain of yeast involved. Missed the mash temp by a few degrees high for a short period (corrected with cold water) and poor aeration. This was a BIAB beer.

 

[spaced]

Do you have links to your recipes for stout and brown ale?

 

[wonderbread23]

Tough to know without seeing recipes. The most common culprits would be:

- Too much crystal malt (generally 15%+)
- Too high of a mash temperature
- Low attenuating extract (some extracts contain lots of non-fermentables)
- Underpitching yeast
- Underaerating wort
- Poor yeast health
- Too low of fermentation temperature

 

[dunnright00]

Alright! Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

I was trying not to complain too much, but I've seen a theme with my threads that don't get any replies and then buried because this site is so popular. But it worked!

So, my main question was, would better aeration help and I think I already knew the answer. And your replies helped to confirm that.

To answer the questions:

I know my hydrometer is good, I've calibrated it recently.
My thermometer on the other hand, seems a bit wonky. I'm gonna get a new one before my next batch.

I did add yeast nutrient to the stout which used a starter, but not the BA or the BW.
I've never heard the Olive Oil trick before, I might try that.

The last Brown Ale used S-04 and I didn't hydrate (at the advice of the LHBS) so I'm thinking that had something to do with it.
The grain bill was:

2 lbs 2-row
1/2 lb. Carapils
1/2 lb.Crystal 20L
1/2 lb.Crystal 60L
1/2 lb.Crystal 80L
1/2 lb.Chocolate

4 lbs Pale LME

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at (from my notes) 72 degrees? That seems high. I think it was closer to 69-70.

My recipe says 158 mash temp, but if I recall it went up and down a couple of times due to the BIAB method. I just read a great idea to put the pot in the oven on "warm" during the mash and I'm going to try that next time.
The LME was added at the last 15min of the boil.
I did get a nice rolling boil with this and it had some off-flavors. Some research and discussion has concluded that I may have scorched the extract.


The BW grain bill:

(1 gal batch)

3 Lbs 2 Row
8 oz. Vienna Malt
3 oz. Cara Pils
3 oz Crystal 90L
1/2 Cup Brown Sugar & 2 T Molases (30 minute Boil)

The yeast was 4oz. of Safale US-05, hydrated

Mashed at 155 and this was a lot more consistent. I think I just kept a better eye on it.

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at 65 degrees.


The Stout grain bill:

8 lbs Pale LME
1-1/4 lbs Roasted
3/4 lb Crystal 40L
1 lb Flaked Oats (not mashed)

This was just a straight Extract w/grains recipe.
Yeast was WLP005 In 3cup Starter

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at 68.

I think the common factor in the 2 that did not do well is the addition of water to top off, and then not getting a good amount of oxygen added. I usually add a couple of gallons to the carboy, pour in the wort and then top off to the 5 gal mark. With all the foam, I was thinking that gave me plenty of aeration.

As for pitching rates, this has always confused me. I understand you have x amount yeast and add to y amount of wort, but how can you tell exactly what your cell count is? I think I need to read Jamil's info on this again.

So, I think my answer is:
1.) Check pitching rates more carefully
2.) Aerate more.

What do you guys use to aerate? Do you have an aeration system, or just shake the hell out of it?

OH!!
And, Thank you to all have replied! You guys Rock!! :rockin:

 

[wolverinebrewer]

Alright! Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

I was trying not to complain too much, but I've seen a theme with my threads that don't get any replies and then buried because this site is so popular. But it worked!

So, my main question was, would better aeration help and I think I already knew the answer. And your replies helped to confirm that.

To answer the questions:

I know my hydrometer is good, I've calibrated it recently.
My thermometer on the other hand, seems a bit wonky. I'm gonna get a new one before my next batch.

I did add yeast nutrient to the stout which used a starter, but not the BA or the BW.
I've never heard the Olive Oil trick before, I might try that.

The last Brown Ale used S-04 and I didn't hydrate (at the advice of the LHBS) so I'm thinking that had something to do with it.
The grain bill was:

2 lbs 2-row
1/2 lb. Carapils
1/2 lb.Crystal 20L
1/2 lb.Crystal 60L
1/2 lb.Crystal 80L
1/2 lb.Chocolate

4 lbs Pale LME

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at (from my notes) 72 degrees? That seems high. I think it was closer to 69-70.

My recipe says 158 mash temp, but if I recall it went up and down a couple of times due to the BIAB method. I just read a great idea to put the pot in the oven on "warm" during the mash and I'm going to try that next time.
The LME was added at the last 15min of the boil.
I did get a nice rolling boil with this and it had some off-flavors. Some research and discussion has concluded that I may have scorched the extract.


The BW grain bill:

(1 gal batch)

3 Lbs 2 Row
8 oz. Vienna Malt
3 oz. Cara Pils
3 oz Crystal 90L
1/2 Cup Brown Sugar & 2 T Molases (30 minute Boil)

The yeast was 4oz. of Safale US-05, hydrated

Mashed at 155 and this was a lot more consistent. I think I just kept a better eye on it.

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at 65 degrees.


The Stout grain bill:

8 lbs Pale LME
1-1/4 lbs Roasted
3/4 lb Crystal 40L
1 lb Flaked Oats (not mashed)

This was just a straight Extract w/grains recipe.
Yeast was WLP005 In 3cup Starter

Fermented consistently in my temp regulated ferm chamber at 68.

I think the common factor in the 2 that did not do well is the addition of water to top off, and then not getting a good amount of oxygen added. I usually add a couple of gallons to the carboy, pour in the wort and then top off to the 5 gal mark. With all the foam, I was thinking that gave me plenty of aeration.

As for pitching rates, this has always confused me. I understand you have x amount yeast and add to y amount of wort, but how can you tell exactly what your cell count is? I think I need to read Jamil's info on this again.

So, I think my answer is:
1.) Check pitching rates more carefully
2.) Aerate more.

What do you guys use to aerate? Do you have an aeration system, or just shake the hell out of it?

OH!!
And, Thank you to all have replied! You guys Rock!! :rockin:

I'm too inexperienced to give you the 100% right answers but I will add what I think I know.
About aeration. What I do, which to some might be a PITA, is after the wort is cooled I pour into the 6.5 gal. bucket. Then I pour back into the BK. Then I add the yeast slurry to the bucket and pour back in there from the kettle. Then I go through it one more time and pour again. When it's back in the bucket I have foam all the way to the top. I snap on the lid and airlock and call it done.

As far as your FG's. I think your BW is fine. You dropped 67 points from 80. That's 75% attenuation.
With the BA, you have 2 lbs of crystal and you used LME which usually can have crystal in that. Plus you mashed at a high temp. The higher you mash the more malty the beer (more unfermentables). Those two reasons can be the culprit.
The stout could have the same issue if your LME was a dark LME that sometimes comes in the kits. I once made a RIS from a kit and it came with 12 lbs. of dark LME. The lowest the FG went was to 29 from 94. But it tastes ok, so I left it alone.
Hope this helps a little.

 

[Golddiggie]

I would aerate the wort once either in the carboy/primary (shake it up, or use a sanitized metal whip/whisk to do the job in a bucket). Pouring through a funnel is fine for aerating too, but can be more tricky (don't want to spill good wort after all)...

Use some nutrient in the batch (usually added during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil)...

Pitch hydrated yeast, or closer to a proper amount of yeast if liquid (starter).

Monitor the wort's temp, not the air temp. Keep it with the happy range of the yeast, so that it doesn't produce flavors you don't want.

Mash at the right temp. Higher mash temps will give you more body, and finish with a higher FG. Lower mash temps will have less body but finish with a lower FG. Do the same grain bill for two batches. Mash one at 156-158F and the other at 150-152F and then compare the final results. You can mash from the mid 140's to the low 160's if you wish. Most of us target someplace in the 150-158F range.

Sparge at 168-170F for ~10-20 minutes.

Using malt extracts can lead to higher FG numbers too. You don't have any control over how the extracts were mashed... If you can find out from the manufacturer what they mashed at, then you can try to offset that with your own mini-mash/partial mash...

I would suggest looking at the mash temperatures more to get the body level you want in the brew... A few degrees F during the mash can make all the difference...

 

[dcp27]

Ight, your brown is obvious why it finished high. thats alot of crystal and you mashed high, so a high fg is just whats going to happen.

for the BW, mashing at 155 is pretty much gunna land you at around 75% attenuation with s-05, which is what you got.

for the stout, extract is only 75% fermenatable itself, dark malt is unfermentable, crystal is mostly unfermentable, and your oats shouldnt have added anything, just starch, so the high fg is not the wild, esp if you added the extract all early.

aeration and pitching rates should be relatively negligible on the 2 smaller beers