Confusion on boil volume

[lgtg]

I will "re-mention" that I brew half batches. Being said, I have a ceramic kettle that will handle upwards of three plus gallons.

I will be getting two kits this weekend that will be speciallly weighed by the LHBS guy to accomodate my 2.5 gallon fermenter.

The kit will be E.G. (extract\grains) so my question is, is there any water ratios that will govern this boil? I would like to put three gallons of water in, steep, boil and reduce the volume to roughly just over the batch volume of 2.5 gallons.

Directions that come with the kit are for five gallon E.G. brewing and specify 1.5 to 2 gallons of water to start. This reduces to about 1 gallon and causes topping off.

Any benefits in either strategy? Thanks.

 

[Bobby_M]

Here's the dilemma. The orginal kit for 5g batch already assumes about a 1/3rd boil volume with 2/3 top off. Cut that recipe directly in half and you can now assume it was tailored for a 1 gallon boil volume. Why does it matter? Hop utilization will vary. If this is already a hoppy/bitter style, I suppose no harm done. Just boil 3 gallons down to your 2.6 or whatever. It will be more bitter than the recipe intended, but no big deal. If you want to nail the recipe, you'll either have to boil that 1 gallon with the supplied hop amount/schedule or full boil with less hops. How much less? I don't know exactly how to figure it out, reduce by 1/4 is my guess. FYI, Full boil will require more aeration after cooling.

 

[david_42]

If you do a full boil, the final IBU will be higher, figure 30-40%. Many styles this won't matter much because most people cannot identify a 10 IBU difference.

 

[cweston]

When you get the exaxct ingredient list, plug all the numbers into beer recipator or some other brewing software, using the exact amounts of everything (including water) in the recipe. Note the IBUs--they may not agree with the IBUs listed. Don't worry about this--there is more than one algorithm for calculating IBUs.

Now change the numbers to the boil size you intend to use (3 gal) and cut all the ingredients in half for your half batch. The IBUs will be too high: adjust the bittering hops amount until the IBUs match that of the original recipe.

As Bobby_M syas, you'll also need to worry about aeration with a full boil.

Or if all of that seems like too much hassle, just do the partial boil size as indicated in the recipe.

 

[lgtg]

Here's the dilemma. The orginal kit for 5g batch already assumes about a 1/3rd boil volume with 2/3 top off. Cut that recipe directly in half and you can now assume it was tailored for a 1 gallon boil volume. Why does it matter? Hop utilization will vary. If this is already a hoppy/bitter style, I suppose no harm done. Just boil 3 gallons down to your 2.6 or whatever. It will be more bitter than the recipe intended, but no big deal. If you want to nail the recipe, you'll either have to boil that 1 gallon with the supplied hop amount/schedule or full boil with less hops. How much less? I don't know exactly how to figure it out, reduce by 1/4 is my guess. FYI, Full boil will require more aeration after cooling.

Bobby,

Thank you. Very informative. One kit will be a German Hefe (I've never brewed it before) So, perhaps the best thing to do is just follow the recipe. (although, for a lighter, more "yellowed" color, I may do a late extract addition.)

The second kit is a dry stout (I've already brewed this one to the recipe and it's pretty good, very bold flavor. Black licorice and molasses notes to it)

The hop schedule is Williamette twice during the boil, 2 oz at 30, and 1oz at 15 to go. (Those are for the full 5 gallon recipe) so last time I cut them in half (1oz and 1/2 oz respectively) and it works.

If I understood you correctly, for full boil, I may want to reduce further or perhaps forgo the bittering additon? and go with the late addition?

 

[lgtg]

When you get the exaxct ingredient list, plug all the numbers into beer recipator or some other brewing software, using the exact amounts of everything (including water) in the recipe. Note the IBUs--they may not agree with the IBUs listed. Don't worry about this--there is more than one algorithm for calculating IBUs.

Now change the numbers to the boil size you intend to use (3 gal) and cut all the ingredients in half for your half batch. The IBUs will be too high: adjust the bittering hops amount until the IBUs match that of the original recipe.

As Bobby_M syas, you'll also need to worry about aeration with a full boil.

Or if all of that seems like too much hassle, just do the partial boil size as indicated in the recipe.

Aeration wasn't too complex on the last brew as I had wisks and elbow grease after the chill down and it "frothed" rather agressively.

But alas, you may be right. Why bother? The benefit sounds rather negligable and the efforts too complex for no greater gain. I'm just absorbing too much info from the damn forum is all....

 

[cweston]

Just curious--if you have a pot that can handle a 3 gallon boil, why do half batches?

Most brewers will brew the largest batch size their equipment will handle, since brewing a batch of any size is roughly the same amount of work and takes the same amount of time.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Yeah, why half batches? I only boil 1.5 gals for my full batches.

Here's a pic of my latest DME batch of Light Ale so making a light colored beer is possible:

 

[lgtg]

Just curious--if you have a pot that can handle a 3 gallon boil, why do half batches?

Most brewers will brew the largest batch size their equipment will handle, since brewing a batch of any size is roughly the same amount of work and takes the same amount of time.

I recieved a Beer Machine for Christmas and I'm "constrained" to it until this Christmas. So, instead of using the "crafted" hopped DME Beer Mixes that can be bought from Beer Machine, I'm trying out E.G. kits from a LHBS in Tampa, Florida which is over two hours from my house.

My daughter lived and works there and she\we often visit each other so I can obtain these custom "higher qulality" brews from there.

 

[cweston]

FWIW, you can get a 6.5-7 gal plastic fermenter bucket for less than $10.00. If you want to do two-stage fermentations, you can get a 5 gal glass carboy for $20 or less.

 

[lgtg]

FWIW, you can get a 6.5-7 gal plastic fermenter bucket for less than $10.00. If you want to do two-stage fermentations, you can get a 5 gal glass carboy for $20 or less.

I don't have a LHBS so ordering via internet is what I would have to do, which in itself is not a problem (S&H for $30 worth of stuff is what "scrapes" me!) But even more, it was a conditional thing between my wife and I, in that if I experimented with the Beer Machine throughout the year, when it came around to Christmas again, I could get a handsome intermediate kit.

So, I could persuade her to let me "compile" or piece meal it througout the year but I have seen some pretty good stuff if I just wait. No harm done by learning to brew "better beer" for right now. By the time come, I may have educated myself enough to try a few partial grain or mini mash brews. I bet that by June or July of next year (Birthday) I will make the transition to all-grain.

But hey, I'm drinking pretty good homebrew so far, it's even good enough to not have "brew shame" and share with friends so I count that as benefit for right now

 

[Bobby_M]

That's the real sour part of these subpar kits is that there really isn't anything to 'em. You could find even a used food grade bucket that has more utility than the Mr Beer's keg and the like. I totally know where you're at though. My wife bought me a home brewing kit that used a kind of soda syrup bag for a fermenter. I brewed one batch and made her taste it. I had a proper kit on the way directly. I do agree you've got a leg up using good ingredients.

Hey, by the way, doing a late extract addition is a good idea for a lighter beer but beware the same full boil hop utilization issue will be even more pronounced. Think of it this way; The reason the hops contributes more bitterness in a full boil is that the gravity is lowered (less sugar in more water). Now, figure plain boiling water is lower gravity still so you'll get even more bittering. I wouldn't skip the bittering altogether, you just have to reduce the time you boil or reduce the amount of hops. Just as an example, Beersmith gives me 23.4 IBU with 1oz Fuggles for 60 minutes in plain water while it's reduced to 17 IBU if the boil is done in 1.044 OG. During a partial boil where all the extract is added, you may be in the 1.1 gravity range which would only pull 12 IBU out of the same hop addition.
By the way, the only way to get all the way down to 12 IBU in a plain water boil (at least according to beersmith) is to reduce the boil time for that 1oz to only 15 minutes. Woah.


Let's just say that the hefe recipe calls for 1oz for 60 minutes. I'd either use 1oz for 30 minutes (add the extract for the last 15 of that) or stick with the 60 minutes and reduce to .5 oz. I'd go with the first option (cutting back the bittering boil time) because no reason to end up with leftover hops.

You can see how these minor changes really do affect the end result. The good news is there is a lot of software out there to help you craft the recipes and bottom line is that it all makes beer. Hmm, maybe a little more or less bitter than you'd hoped. I hope all this doesn't confuse you more or turn you off to the hobby. You can get as technical as you want but don't forget to relax and have a home brew.

 

[grrtt78]

does a larger boil with better hop utalization affect hop flavor and aroma as well? would you only have to adjust the bittering hops or all hops?

 

[lgtg]

Hey Man, thank you! If anything, you just helped me "broaden" the variable perspectives that I need but lack at this point in my journey as a novice brewer!

Your response was immensley helpful. Although, to converse on topic of your post;

At half batch, I anticipate the hefe to have a schedule of 2oz bittering (shooting in the dark here) and flavor\aroma in the 1oz amount. Because is will be extract\grain, the boil time will be one hour. The steep time at 30 for the specialty grains. For late add extract, I'd be more likely to keep full boil time, and reduce hops. After all, I'll be splitting them to 1oz bitter, 0.5oz aroma respetively. So, it's probably going to be (you tell me if I'm wrong) 0.5oz bitter and 0.25 (estimated by eye) repecitvely to get the light\yellowing that I want for this heffe...(ugh, brain hurts)

All said, for the heffe, main objective is to get the esters, and produce a "yellowish" color.

Thanks Bobby_M, very generous of you to elaborate.

 

[lgtg]

One more question, for the stout kit;

In steeping, is there any practical way to use oats?? Keep hearing about it, just need a simple "for dummies" break down. I know they need to be mashed? Or is it counter-productive to a good stout to use them at this level?

 

[Bobby_M]

Personally I'd wait to embellish recipes (regarding the stout). If I understand it correctly, flaked oats are unmodified meaning they need the enzymes from other modified mashed grains to get anything usable out of them.

Just to make sure I heard you right, you'll bring the water to about 155F and then steep your grains for 30 minutes. This doesn't count as boil time yet. After removing the grain bag, full heat to boiling. Once you get a boil going, you throw your bittering hops in and the hop clock starts now. Say you boil these hops for 15 minutes, add your extract and flavor hops and boil for a final 15 minutes. I suppose the easiest way to figure out just how long to boil the bittering and flavor hops is to wait and see what the recipe actually calls for.. Post that when it arrives.

 

[lgtg]

Bobby, you have, indeed, heard me correctly. You are right, I just need to build confidence in producing successful beers based on recipe and by enhancing my methods and procedures. I will post the recipe soon though, thanks again!

Larry

 

[BarryNL]

Just curious--if you have a pot that can handle a 3 gallon boil, why do half batches?

Most brewers will brew the largest batch size their equipment will handle, since brewing a batch of any size is roughly the same amount of work and takes the same amount of time.

Well, for a start, full batches are twice the work in bottling and also require you to have twice the bottling capacity.

I suppose buying the extra bottles isn't that much money, but it's also nice to brew a lot of different styles rather than bigger batches.