Confused about Wheat

[carter840]

I was wondering if someone could help me understand how wheat works in a recipe and the difference in using wheat DME in a recipe vs. wheat specialty grains. I am trying to put a recipe together with a base similar to hoegarden, but I am at a loss for a barley to wheat ratio. This will be an extract with specialty grains brew so I am looking for some guidelines on what percent of my DME should be wheat and what percent of my specialty grains should be wheat.

I hope this question isn't to confusing, but I have no idea how to balance my DME and specialty grains when using wheat.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Cambone]

Just sort of spitballing here, pulling from Jamil's Belgian Wit recipie.

6.75 lbs Wheat LME
.25 lbs Munich LME

1.13 lbs Flaked Oats
1 lbs Pilsner Malt

Now this is interesting because all of the wheat is in extract form, but it does make sense as mashing it is the more effecient use. Wheat as a specialty grain doesn't add much other than perhaps improved head retention.

The take away being that the ratio of wheat to barley is very high, on the order of 5:1.

 

[carter840]

Just sort of spitballing here, pulling from Jamil's Belgian Wit recipie.

6.75 lbs Wheat LME
.25 lbs Munich LME

1.13 lbs Flaked Oats
1 lbs Pilsner Malt

Now this is interesting because all of the wheat is in extract form, but it does make sense as mashing it is the more effecient use. Wheat as a specialty grain doesn't add much other than perhaps improved head retention.

The take away being that the ratio of wheat to barley is very high, on the order of 5:1.

Hmm well I already order my Munton's light DME.

How about something like this for malts:
3lbs Wheat DME
2lbs Munton's Light DME

Also can I use Weyermann Pale wheat as a specialty grain? On Northern Brewer it says a protein rest is required- can someone explain what that means?

Thanks

 

[BoisePorter]

Check this thread out - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/protein-rest-48482/

 

[sheeshomatic]

Just sort of spitballing here, pulling from Jamil's Belgian Wit recipie.

6.75 lbs Wheat LME
.25 lbs Munich LME

1.13 lbs Flaked Oats
1 lbs Pilsner Malt

Now this is interesting because all of the wheat is in extract form, but it does make sense as mashing it is the more effecient use. Wheat as a specialty grain doesn't add much other than perhaps improved head retention.

The take away being that the ratio of wheat to barley is very high, on the order of 5:1.

The ratio isn't 5:1 - Wheat LME is not 100% wheat. It's 60/40 wheat/barley.

 

[sheeshomatic]

By the way, there are a TON of wheat recipes in the recipe section:

Wheat and Rye Beer

 

[carter840]

Alright I understand protein rest now, but it seems like that weyermann pale wheat is intended for a mash? I am just confused if I can use it as a specialty grain.

 

[BoisePorter]

What is it you're trying to accomplish by using it as a specialty/steeping grain?

 

[JLem]

The ratio isn't 5:1 - Wheat LME is not 100% wheat. It's 60/40 wheat/barley.

This is the key thing to remember. Wheat extract - whether DME or LME - is not 100% wheat. The percentages vary but is generally in the 50/50, 40/60 range.

 

[gr8shandini]

Alright I understand protein rest now, but it seems like that weyermann pale wheat is intended for a mash? I am just confused if I can use it as a specialty grain.

Not if you're planning on just steeping it. You need the mash to convert the starch in the grain to sugar. However, this might be a good opportunity to try a mini-mash. It's really not much more complicated than steeping. Malted wheat will convert itself, but you'll probably want to add some rice hulls to aid in "lautering."

As for proportions, that's up to you. If you're talking about something like a Hefeweizen, German law requires at least 51% of the grain bill to be wheat. We don't have to follow German law, of course, but it shows that a considerable portion should be wheat to get the character correct. I use 60/40 wheat to barley, myself.

 

[carter840]

Hmm perhaps I will try a minimash down the road, but I just assume stick with only specialty grain and extract his time around, so I will save the wheat grain for a later brew.

Also if your curious here is my recipe for this brew (I'd love some feedback):
Hopville . "Belgian Beach Bum" Belgian Specialty Ale Recipe

 

[gr8shandini]

Looks pretty good to me. I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to grain bills, so the only thing I would possibly change is to combine the crystal 20L and caraVienne (i.e. use one or the other) since they're pretty similar. But there's no problem with it as is. I haven't really dealt with spices, so I'm not sure about the amounts on those either. But I do like the idea of cardamom in a beer.

One final note, I don't know if you've worked with honey before, but I've found that if you want any honey flavor/aroma at all out of it, you need to add it to the primary after the initial, vigorous fermentation subsides. Of course that means the gravity in the boil will be lower, so you'd want to adjust your hop schedule accordingly.

 

[sheeshomatic]

Also, if you're going for more wheat flavor, I'd up the amount of wheat DME you use and lower the extra light. Muntons is 55% wheat, so you currently have 3lbs of wheat dme and 2lbs of light - which is about 1.5lbs of wheat to 3.5lbs of barley. The typical weizen has ~60% wheat. You could use 5lbs of wheat DME and still use your specialty grains. No problem at all.

 

[carter840]

Also, if you're going for more wheat flavor, I'd up the amount of wheat DME you use and lower the extra light. Muntons is 55% wheat, so you currently have 3lbs of wheat dme and 2lbs of light - which is about 1.5lbs of wheat to 3.5lbs of barley. The typical weizen has ~60% wheat. You could use 5lbs of wheat DME and still use your specialty grains. No problem at all.

Yeah I wish, I already order my supplied though and only ordered 3lbs of wheat DME. Maybe I will make a trip to the lhbs and get more wheat would be nice to have more in there.

I will also likely get rid of the crystal 20 keep things simple.

As for he honey my plan is to add it to the cooling wort when it hits about 130F. I know that a lot of people would stress sanitizing, but I am not to concerned about a brand new honey having too many contaminates. Honey is one of the only foods that doesn't go bad and like hops I believe it also has some preservative properties. I am debating whether to add a little after primary too, but frankly wouldn't mind it fermenting to increase ABV.

I am going to be using some pretty expensive sourwood honey, and although it is likely a waste of money I figure I'll never know unless I try.

 

[sheeshomatic]

Yeah I wish, I already order my supplied though and only ordered 3lbs of wheat DME. Maybe I will make a trip to the lhbs and get more wheat would be nice to have more in there.

I will also likely get rid of the crystal 20 keep things simple.

As for he honey my plan is to add it to the cooling wort when it hits about 130F. I know that a lot of people would stress sanitizing, but I am not to concerned about a brand new honey having too many contaminates. Honey is one of the only foods that doesn't go bad and like hops I believe it also has some preservative properties. I am debating whether to add a little after primary too, but frankly wouldn't mind it fermenting to increase ABV.

I am going to be using some pretty expensive sourwood honey, and although it is likely a waste of money I figure I'll never know unless I try.

Honey will ferment like a champ - there's no problem adding it to the primary after much of the fermentation has subsided. It won't attenuate quite as much and there will be a little residual honey characteristic. But if you're thinking that adding it late will improve it's presence, it won't. It's a simple sugar, just like everything else in the wort, and the yeast will munch away at it.

 

[gr8shandini]

Yup. There's still plenty of active yeast after the airlock slows down, so fermentation will pick right back up once you stir the honey in. And I agree with sheesh that you still won't get a whole lot of honey flavor - it'll be barely perceptable even in a beer that's not spiced. But if you add it earlier, you'll get absolutely nothing out of it. That's been my experience at least.

 

[sheeshomatic]

Yup. There's still plenty of active yeast after the airlock slows down, so fermentation will pick right back up once you stir the honey in. And I agree with sheesh that you still won't get a whole lot of honey flavor - it'll be barely perceptable even in a beer that's not spiced. But if you add it earlier, you'll get absolutely nothing out of it. That's been my experience at least.

I agree. I once used it as my priming sugar. I've also used maple syrup to prime. Just slightly detectable in both cases. Yeast are incredible.

 

[carter840]

Hmm, I guess I will add half of it when I keg. I think that will give me some flavor, do you agree. There shouldn't be too much yeast then and I will be chilling it too. I'm still going to add about 6oz. during wort cool. I had read a few places that although honey does ferment readily many of its components that does not carry some of the honey flavor, but I trust what you're all saying.

 

[Sippin37]

Most things that I have read say that adding honey malt will get you more honey flavor than honey itself. I would think adding when kegging would give you the best chance at the flavor/aroma coming through. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[sheeshomatic]

Yes, if you keg and cold crash it then force carb, the honey won't ferment because the yeast will go dormant. Just be careful if you decide to bottle any that later that it doesn't get warm. The yeast will wake up and you could have bombs.