combining hops in hop sock?

[Gravity]

Hi

Random thought and question as I'm sitting here watching my blonde boil away

my recipe calls for equal amounts of:
Tettnang @ 15
Perele @ 15
and then equal amounts of Hallertau @ 5min and Saaz @5 min


Normally I put each addition in a hop sock (separately) or put each in a hop ball, then drop them in

The question is, can I put them both in the same hop sock and add them both at 15?

Random, I know - i'm not sure if I do this out of habit, or if there's a reason i've been dropping hops separately for years

Also, would you add whirlfloc/irish moss to a blonde? I'm thinking no - however have not strong opinions

 

[Miraculix]

Of course you can put all of the different hops of one addition into one hop sock. Why shouldn't you?

I wouldn't use Irish moss or whirlflocc in general, also not for a blond.

 

[Gravity]

Of course you can put all of the different hops of one addition into one hop sock. Why shouldn't you?

I wouldn't use Irish moss or whirlflocc in general, also not for a blond.

lol...I knew the answer before I posted; It might have been something I read that had me thinking that I should always do them separately- been doing it for ages...haha...

A little haze in a blonde would be nice

Why don't you whirlfoc?

 

[kh54s10]

Of course you can put all of the different hops of one addition into one hop sock. Why shouldn't you?

I wouldn't use Irish moss or whirlflocc in general, also not for a blond.

Why wouldn't you use Irish Moss or Whirlflocc especially for a blonde which you would like to be clear?

 

[Miraculix]

lol...I knew the answer before I posted; It might have been something I read that had me thinking that I should always do them separately- been doing it for ages...haha...

A little haze in a blonde would be nice

Why don't you whirlfoc?

I just don't see a reason for it. I ferment in my boil kettle, therefore all the trub is still in there. Don't see a point in removing it.

 

[Miraculix]

Clear wort has nothing to do with clear beer btw.

 

[kh54s10]

If you are fermenting in the boil kettle - probably not. But that is not a common practice.

Clear wort makes clear beer easier, and unless I am mistaken, Irish Moss and Whirlflocc, which are the same thing, transfer in the wort and help precipitate solids in the fermenter also.

 

[Miraculix]

Clear wort makes clear beer easier, and unless I am mistaken, Irish Moss and Whirlflocc, which are the same thing, transfer in the wort and help precipitate solids in the fermenter also.

Well those are two bold statements which I have never seen proven in experiments.

Quite the contrary instead.

 

[kh54s10]

As to combining the hops. Why not? The goodness all goes to the same place - the wort. People using hop spiders just dump the hop in at the appropriate times.

 

[kh54s10]

Well those are two bold statements which I have never seen proven in experiments.

Quite the contrary instead.

What bold statements? Fermenting in the boil kettle? I am sure that is not very common.

I haven't seen experiments either. Why does everything have to have an experiment?? I have used Irish Moss and have noticed a distinct difference when I haven't. I don't have any link, but I have read that it does help in the fermenter. I don't know personally. Irish Moss may not be something you want but it works for me.

And since your fermentation in the kettle does not benefit does not mean it won't for others.

 

[Miraculix]

What bold statements? Fermenting in the boil kettle? I am sure that is not very common.

I haven't seen experiments either. Why does everything have to have an experiment?? I have used Irish Moss and have noticed a distinct difference when I haven't. I don't have any link, but I have read that it does help in the fermenter. I don't know personally. Irish Moss may not be something you want but it works for me.

And since your fermentation in the kettle does not benefit does not mean it won't for others.

I was referring to your statement regarding clear wort makes clearer beer and that Irish moss transitions to the fermenter in a helpful way.

In wort the haze is mainly cogulated protein and fatty acids. Both of them will drop clear within a few hours, this also happens in the fermenter once fermentation slowed down, therefore they don't contribute to beer haze.

But those cogulated proteins etc. Are exactly what Irish moss tackles, which doesn't make much sense.

It enhances shelf life a bit though, but it decreases amount of nutrients for the yeast on the other hand.

There are some nice newer posts and experiments available online regarding the topictopic. Look out for them, I am at work and cannot search.

 

[jack13]

If you are fermenting in the boil kettle - probably not. But that is not a common practice.

Clear wort makes clear beer easier, and unless I am mistaken, Irish Moss and Whirlflocc, which are the same thing, transfer in the wort and help precipitate solids in the fermenter also.

That has been my experience. Most recently I did two smashes in a row. Only difference was that I used Golden Promise as my malt in one and Munich in the other. Creating an accidental experiment*, I forgot whirlfloc in one. And the one with the whirlfloc turned out much clearer (the beer, I mean--don't care what the wort looks like).

*well, almost. I guess it's possible golden promise results in more haze than munich.

 

[kh54s10]

I was referring to your statement regarding clear wort makes clearer beer and that Irish moss transitions to the fermenter in a helpful way.

In wort the haze is mainly cogulated protein and fatty acids. Both of them will drop clear within a few hours, this also happens in the fermenter once fermentation slowed down, therefore they don't contribute to beer haze.

But those cogulated proteins etc. Are exactly what Irish moss tackles, which doesn't make much sense.

It enhances shelf life a bit though, but it decreases amount of nutrients for the yeast on the other hand.

There are some nice newer posts and experiments available online regarding the topictopic. Look out for them, I am at work and cannot search.

I haven't seen any thing like what you are saying. I was under the impression that the coagulated proteins etc were something that you are trying to keep out of the fermenter. And what does transfer will be helped to drop with the remaining Irish Moss. I have also never heard that Irish Moss decreases nutrients.

I will have to keep watch for this. And as to experiments. I have seen a lot that really were flawed experiments. So I take them with a grain of salt.

 

[Miraculix]

I haven't seen any thing like what you are saying. I was under the impression that the coagulated proteins etc were something that you are trying to keep out of the fermenter. And what does transfer will be helped to drop with the remaining Irish Moss. I have also never heard that Irish Moss decreases nutrients.

I will have to keep watch for this. And as to experiments. I have seen a lot that really were flawed experiments. So I take them with a grain of salt.

The proteins and the fatty acids that are removed from the wort are basically nutrients.
They would settle down after the fermentation anyway, together with the yeast, so there is no surplus in forcing them out before fermentation finished.

It is mainly the yeast causing haze, and yeast is afaik.not affected by Irish moss which has been added to the boil. That's when gelatin comes into play, if desired.

Chill haze might be an exception,I do not know if chill haze causing proteins that wouldn't drop put otherwise, are dropped out by the Irish moss and therefore don't end up in the fermenter.

 

[kh54s10]

The proteins and the fatty acids that are removed from the wort are basically nutrients.
They would settle down after the fermentation anyway, together with the yeast, so there is no surplus in forcing them out before fermentation finished.

It is mainly the yeast causing haze, and yeast is afaik.not affected by Irish moss which has been added to the boil. That's when gelatin comes into play, if desired.

Chill haze might be an exception,I do not know if chill haze causing proteins that wouldn't drop put otherwise, are dropped out by the Irish moss and therefore don't end up in the fermenter.

I don't know.... I have always used Irish Moss and Wyeast beer nutrient blend at 10 minutes left in the boil. I have always gotten good fermentation, and when I have forgotten the Irish Moss my beer was noticeably more cloudy. I have gotten chill haze when using Irish Moss.

Added: The hazy beers without Irish Moss were that way even with 3-4 weeks in the fermenter.

Another addition: I have had some beers that ended up cloudy even when I did use Irish Moss....

 

[Gravity]

I don't know.... I have always used Irish Moss and Wyeast beer nutrient blend at 10 minutes left in the boil. I have always gotten good fermentation, and when I have forgotten the Irish Moss my beer was noticeably more cloudy. I have gotten chill haze when using Irish Moss.

Added: The hazy beers without Irish Moss were that way even with 3-4 weeks in the fermenter.

Another addition: I have had some beers that ended up cloudy even when I did use Irish Moss....

I've never had a hazy beer that wasn't intentional, and in part I attribute it to whirlfloc

Personally, I think it habitual on all our parts (which was the original point of the post) we do things cause we liked the results the first time we did it or vice-versa. At some point when we were all starting out reading books, brewing with friends, etc. you picked up an overall general brewing method that you've stuck with ie separate hop socks...

 

[Miraculix]

I've never had a hazy beer that wasn't intentional, and in part I attribute it to whirlfloc

Personally, I think it habitual on all our parts (which was the original point of the post) we do things cause we liked the results the first time we did it or vice-versa. At some point when we were all starting out reading books, brewing with friends, etc. you picked up an overall general brewing method that you've stuck with ie separate hop socks...

Good point. I had chill haze in one of my last beers for the very first time, had very hazy beers, had very clear beers. The "non chill haze" haze was attributed to the yeast not flocking out, as it is usually the main concern regarding clarity. I haven't heard about whirlfloc helping yeast to compact or to flocc out at the end of fermentation.

This certainly does not mean that it might not be the case, but I think, at the point of the end of fermentation, all the available whirflocc melucules are either removed with the trub or already attached to something and are happily lying on the ground of the fermenter with everything else that dropped there. Meaning they won't help the yeast to flocc out, and as this is the main concern regarding clear beer (let's forget about chill haze for a second), it will not help.

I guess it is mainly a case of "I always used it and the beer turned always out clear" which is, as you correctly noted, based on a habit and not on factual evidence. In my case it is "I never used it, and my beer turned alsways out clear, when the yeast wasn't super powdery", which is also habitual.

But based on my thoughts which are based on my understanding how haze is caused and on how irish moss/whirlflocc works, I honestly think whirflocc etc. does not contribute to final beers clarity as it is simply not attacking the haze causing elements in beer ie. the poor flocculation of certain yeasts.

 

[BrewsnBass]

I wouldn't use a hop sock. It will trap oils and aromas. It's like drying a blanket and it's still wet inside.

 

[kh54s10]

I wouldn't use a hop sock. It will trap oils and aromas. It's like drying a blanket and it's still wet inside.

Plenty do, hence all the hop spiders for sale and threads for DIYing them.