Cold crashing after adding gelatin instead of before.

[robcj]

I'm always pushing to see how quickly I can turn around beers and I find that a lot of the styles I brew can go from grain to glass in two weeks. Gelatin plays a significant role in my process.

So normally I transfer to keg at fermentation temperature, crash the keg to about 4°C / 39°F in my fermenting chamber, toss in my gelatin then throw it in my kegerator for force carbonation.

But last week I forgot to crash the beer and for some reason threw in my gelatin at fermentation temperature--19°C / 66°F for this beer. I went ahead and put the keg in my kegerator and it was down to serving temperature overnight. I was a little worried because I've seen experiments and comparisons showing that gelatin doesn't perform as well when added to warm beer. But this beer was crystal clear in a couple of days, same as when I add gelatin at 4°C / 39°F--probably because I cold crashed it right after adding gelatin. But this mistake was actually easier and quicker than my usual process.

So--going forward, I'm going to skip cold crashing in my fermenting chamber for a day before I add gelatin. I'll add gelatin to the keg right after I transfer it from the fermentor and then immediately put it the kegerator on gas. My process will be simpler--and I'll be drinking beer a day earlier too.

I know it's common for people to cold crash before adding gelatin so I just wanted to share in case anyone has a similar process and wants to simplify it just a little.

 

[ESBrewer]

Yes, I think all the experiments I have seen have used gelatin either at RT(bad results) or after cold crashing. It is possible that gelatin and haze/yeast can stick together later on if the temperature is diminished after gelatin addition. But for best stability, I would keep it cold for some time, because I think not all the haze forms immediately and if you do it very quickly, some haze forming stuff may remain in beer and may appear later. So for stability, a careful cold crash may e good. I think chill haze is also induced by incubation at warm places and if the beer is brought to a warm place later, and then chilled so new haze may be forming again given that there is enough polyphenols / small molecular weiht protein around.

 

[The_Bishop]

I prefer to cold crash and fine prior to keg transfer; no issues moving the keg around that way and kegs are a lot easier to clean when they're not full of mud.

 

[robcj]

I prefer to cold crash and fine prior to keg transfer; no issues moving the keg around that way and kegs are a lot easier to clean when they're not full of mud.

The cleaning doesn’t bother me but you are very right about moving a keg that’s been fined—that’s no good unless you like dumping pints.

I fine in the keg for two reasons:

- I worry a little bit about suckback when crashing in my Fermonsters.
- I like to keep things simple and stress-free so I transfer almost everything from my kettle. That means there’s a lot of trub in my Fermonsters and it’s hard to keep my keg transfers completely clean. Gelatin is amazing—it forgives all transfer transgressions. The beer is crystal clear—commercial clear really—after fining.

Anecdotally, I really think fining with gelatin has a positive impact on flavor beyond just appearance. My beers are ready to drink sooner because of it.

 

[robcj]

Yes, I think all the experiments I have seen have used gelatin either at RT(bad results) or after cold crashing. It is possible that gelatin and haze/yeast can stick together later on if the temperature is diminished after gelatin addition. But for best stability, I would keep it cold for some time, because I think not all the haze forms immediately and if you do it very quickly, some haze forming stuff may remain in beer and may appear later. So for stability, a careful cold crash may e good. I think chill haze is also induced by incubation at warm places and if the beer is brought to a warm place later, and then chilled so new haze may be forming again given that there is enough polyphenols / small molecular weiht protein around.

I’ve only ever cold crashed overnight before fining with gelatin and my beers have been haze-free for their duration on tap. (Mind you they don’t last long around here.) I’ll probably learn something with this batch. If cold crashing right after adding gelatin is approximately as effective as adding gelatin to cold beer, I think that would be useful to more people than just me. Maybe I should split a batch in the near future and test it?

 

[mongoose33]

I know it's common for people to cold crash before adding gelatin so I just wanted to share in case anyone has a similar process and wants to simplify it just a little.

I've never done it this way, FWIW. I used the Brulosophy method, which is to crash to 50 or lower, add gelatin, then continue crashing to 32.

This works too. However, I've never added gelatin at fermentation temps and then crashed.

 

[divrack]

Pretty sure there was an article on this subject here a few weeks ago.
I just drink them hazy baby.

 

[BrewInspector]

This is essentially what I always do. I do not have the ability to crash in the fermenter. I transfer to keg. Add gelatin. Stick in kegerator. Quick carb over night. Enjoy. It takes a few days to clear and progressively gets clearer over time.

Would still like to use something like the floating clear tap to get even better results. I can tell the difference between when I use it and when I don't.

 

[ESBrewer]

I’ve only ever cold crashed overnight before fining with gelatin and my beers have been haze-free for their duration on tap. (Mind you they don’t last long around here.) I’ll probably learn something with this batch. If cold crashing right after adding gelatin is approximately as effective as adding gelatin to cold beer, I think that would be useful to more people than just me. Maybe I should split a batch in the near future and test it?

When the keg is kept cold, I think your method is certainly fine (given that it clears the beer initially) . If there are any further molecules that can interact with gelatin, they do it because the keg remains cold, particles tend to drop, and gelatin is still there. What I was saying is that in those situations where you move beer away from cold and gelatin (bottle condtioning etc.) it may be that a very rapid fining time may leave some molecules in the beer, that could cause some problems later on. This could be studied as well but it would need a carefully conducted long term study with different fining times.

 

[robcj]

When the keg is kept cold, I think your method is certainly fine (given that it clears the beer initially) . If there are any further molecules that can interact with gelatin, they do it because the keg remains cold, particles tend to drop, and gelatin is still there. What I was saying is that in those situations where you move beer away from cold and gelatin (bottle condtioning etc.) it may be that a very rapid fining time may leave some molecules in the beer, that could cause some problems later on. This could be studied as well but it would need a carefully conducted long term study with different fining times.

Good point and very relevant to me if I choose to bottle from the keg for sharing or competition.

 

[robcj]

Yes, I think all the experiments I have seen have used gelatin either at RT(bad results) or after cold crashing. It is possible that gelatin and haze/yeast can stick together later on if the temperature is diminished after gelatin addition. But for best stability, I would keep it cold for some time, because I think not all the haze forms immediately and if you do it very quickly, some haze forming stuff may remain in beer and may appear later. So for stability, a careful cold crash may e good. I think chill haze is also induced by incubation at warm places and if the beer is brought to a warm place later, and then chilled so new haze may be forming again given that there is enough polyphenols / small molecular weiht protein around.

Out of curiosity, what would you categorize as a careful cold crash? (Time / temperature / steps?)

 

[ESBrewer]

I don't know exactly, but the it seems to take several days at near freezing temperature until the maximum amount of haze is formed (based on visual examination only). But I don't know exactly how the gelatin works, does it mainly interact with these complexes or does the cold temperature merely promote the weak interactions between gelatin and individual, soluble polyphenol molecules. There is probably some more interactions taking place between gelatin and beer molecules even after the beer drops visually clear. I know that many people prefer crashing for a week or two before gelatin but I am not sure if this is based on empirical observations. Note that in a secondary vessel or equivalent, you can keep the dry hops in when cold crashing prior to gelatin. It is best to remove the hops from secondary when you add gelatin and thereafter it may be necessary to keep the actual fining period relatively short to prevent hop aromas from fading. If problems with stability arise, there are some other tricks, too. Such as using silica gel finings prior to gelatin in the process to drop some of the peptides that tend to form the haze complexes. This may enhance the long term stability according to some sources. For taste, it may be a good idea to minimize the amount of gelatin (through some experiments) to prevent gelatin from grabbing any unwanted compounds. It is possible that for such minimization, extended fining times could be useful.

 

[The_Bishop]

The cleaning doesn’t bother me but you are very right about moving a keg that’s been fined—that’s no good unless you like dumping pints.

I fine in the keg for two reasons:

- I worry a little bit about suckback when crashing in my Fermonsters.
- I like to keep things simple and stress-free so I transfer almost everything from my kettle. That means there’s a lot of trub in my Fermonsters and it’s hard to keep my keg transfers completely clean. Gelatin is amazing—it forgives all transfer transgressions. The beer is crystal clear—commercial clear really—after fining.

Anecdotally, I really think fining with gelatin has a positive impact on flavor beyond just appearance. My beers are ready to drink sooner because of it.

Easiest way to avoid suckback? Make a CO2 balloon. If you don't keg or have a source of 'canned' CO2, you can fill it with CO2 from fermentation. I make a 'balloon' out of a 1-2 gallon ziplock bag, with the corner cut off just enough to let tubing slide into it and stretch the bag out slightly. Then put a wrap or two of good quality electrical tape around the junction. The other end of the tubing can go into a bung. With a CO2 filled bag, when you cold crash and the beer begins to absorb what's in the headspace, it pulls in the CO2 from the bag. You can use an appropriate stopper on the end of the tubing for other fermenters.